Quote:
Originally Posted by Boss330
But isn't exactly that what some find thrilling? That they, the driver, have to balance throttle input in relation to available traction?
When F1 banned traction control some years ago it became much more clear which of the drivers that had better throttle control in the wet... The ban on traction control helped the good drivers whereas TC was an equalizer between drivers with great throttle control and those that didn't have that.
Everyone can get a GTR off the line using LC and get it fast out of a corner relying on it's AWD. It's very effective and quick. But doing the same in a RWD car gives more satisfaction to many, because it needs more involvement and perhaps skills from the driver. And is exactly what others find frustrating, because there is power resources left unused due to lack of traction. They would rather like to be able to put the pedal to the metal and get full use of all the power at all times. I see both sides of that view. It's personal preferences and possibly not a "right or wrong" situation...
Perhaps the same reason the 911 GT3 is RWD and the Turbo is AWD...? I guess the GT3 is more of a drivers car that requires more from the driver to do the same lap times as the Turbo?
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Everybody cracks me up with these F1 car comparisons-what?!
First of all-F1 cars are FAST but they don't LAUNCH out of the hole. They are LOW TORQUE and they certainly put their power down right off the line and in a very linear manner they accelerate to ridiculously high speeds (think E60 M5):
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Secondly, the OP said the M5 does not effectively put down power to the wheels in a way that inspires confidence. He is right. It burns the tires very easily. This discussion wasn't about how different people prefer it. It was about the OP pointing this out and his not being so fond of it. He gets attacked for it and told that he should "get a different car" or "should have known better". He never said he hated or didn't want the car. I don't think I have ever purchased a car and loved everything about it. All of you who say "well, that's the fun of it" are reinforcing his point. It does not put the power down well. It SPINS very very easily. We all know it. We all have one. We all can just go right out in the driveway, fire it up, stomp on the gas and burn the wheels-meaning that you CANNOT effectively put all the power down to the road. We can sit here all day and point out areas where it can be made to do it well but if you have to do that then the car does not actually put power down well. It merely works in certain conditions. It also does not do it well in turns (so here we deviate from the claim that the OP and anyone else who opposes the "fan at all costs" view is talking about 0-60 only-which I find HYSTERICAL because just look back at all the threads where everyone WAS talking about the 0-60 times of the M5. It seems to be discussed when it suits people) because it LEANS heavily under the weight and the tires do not stay planted when you add a little throttle. Spinning tires=not putting power down. It does not always put the power down well from slow rolls either. I always felt that my M5 was just right there on the edge of being reckless for lack of a better term. You have to be very careful to not let it get away from you. YES-it can be fun and some prefer that-GREAT. Doesn't mean the OP is an idiot because he points out the challenges that do NOT appeal to him.
The car is a MAGNIFICENT Grand-Tourer and let's face it, GTs are not really meant for drag races, hard curves or TRACK. Even at BMW Performance school they tell you they don't adore the M5 on the track. It is a heavy car with a powerful engine that is meant to be a powerful mash and go car. It just doesn't fit into the "sports" category or the "luxury" category completely. Sort of a mix but more towards luxury with massive power. Reminds me of my Ferrari California in a big way, except that I think the M5 is actually more fun to drive in some ways. The car has insane throttle response but I am not throwing it hard into a turn. It does however cruise very well and is very comfortable and very pretty to look at.
And does the GT3 really require more of the driver to put down better lap times? Who knows? Different car, different suspension and really not meant for the road no matter how "compliant" Porsche tells you that it is. The Turbo is the road car and frankly is the perfect example of what a road car should be. It has massive horse power and insane torque. It is 100% usable ALL of the time. You jump on the throttle and you feel the Gs pinning you to the seat. It corners well, brakes well-basically exactly what you should want in a road car. I am imagining you guys talking about how you love spinning those tires and kicking the rear ends out-REALLY? I did this in my 1980 Camaro in HS. Are you guys really the ones doing fishtails everywhere? C'mon. I can't at all believe that when you want to pull out into a traffic lane with cars moving at decent speeds that you wouldn't really like to know that you can hit that gas and get in there without fighting wheel spin. The M6 does not allow this. You sort of give it some gas and hop out there hoping not to spin and then gradually lay into it to get going. It's just not confidence inspiring.
OUTSTANDING cars and certainly better than most cars on the road-hands down best in class but it is not perfect. The power to the road issue is just one of the challenges with it. EVERY car has it's shortcomings.