[///M1]

"...there is a small but very stable following of customers who simply insist on the manual..."

Yes, I am one of those few, call me a dying breed. The F10 M5 will strictly be a manual for me, in fact if it weren't offered in a manual I would pass altogether.

BTW, current poll shows nearly 40% take rate for the manual, if this holds true that is a serious split.

Originally Posted by Onurleft

This is actually incorrect, the E60 M5 was designed around the SMG and the 6 speed was an after thought, as it did come later in the production year.

Unlike the E60 M5, the F10 M5 has torque. So having an extra gear to utilize that high peak power/torque isn't (on the E60 and E92) isn't as effective on a car that has power and torque everywhere. In other words having much tighter gearing won't benefit the F10 as much as it did the E60 and E92.

Also, before disregarding the latter as "trash" MotorTrends fastest 1/4 mile test was achieved with the 6 speed E60 M5 (12.5@115) and the current world record for the E92 M3 in the 1/4 mile is held by a 6 speed car (12.3@114.9) despite them having an clear advantage from a rolling start

+1. The 6-spd manual was absolutely an afterthought in the case of the E60, and it is not a good example to relate to the F10 M5. Recall that:

1. Manual was offered in the 07 MY, a year after the US 06MY introduction as a result of 'pressure' from the BMW owner community. The F10 is from the get go.

2. Gearbox was straight from the 545i, total parts bin raid. I have heard BMW personnel claim the manual tranny on the M5 was developed from the ground up, and has more in common with a NASCAR car than a road BMW

3. The fiasco of the TC cannot be disabled on manual E60 M5s led to extremely negative press, and lawsuits in fact. This adversely affected the subsequent take rate of manuals. The TC 'fix' was 'addressed' with a software update later on for the 07 MY and of course subsequent MYs were not restricted, but the damage was already done.

4. The engine characteristics of the V10 in the E60 was clearly not well suited for a manual. The TQ monster F10 is a different story.

Originally Posted by berk

Yeah but it is still not the same feeling as european spec cars! Even though with removed cdv there is still restriction. if u drive the eu. Spec and us spec cars, u will understand what im talking about.
As a result i would choose dct in us!

I think some M cars also had CDVs in Europe. Modifying it (ie. simply tapping out the restrictor which takes a total of 3 secs and kindergarten level algebra knowledge, or equivalent ) solves any restriction there may be.

Originally Posted by s4awd

I had a GTR and it was crazy fast but I eventually got bored of clicking through the gears and sold it for a GT3RS which although much slower, I'm still head over heels for. As for the M5, just thinking about all that torque under my left foot is enough to get me back in a 6MT M car. My concern is BMW's lack of enthusiasm for the 6 MT on the M5. If they're going begrudgingly retrofit a 6MT, how good can it be? If their engineers had the same feeling about the joy of driving they had when developing the 1M then fine. Now I'm not too sure.

That's exactly what I fear will be the car of having a DCT/DSG/PDK/et all. Belonged to an exotic car club, drove a helluva lot of cars with these and as much as I enjoyed the cars for the day or two, each time I was happy to come back to my manual cars as I was missing them by the end of the day. This car won't be tracked nor dragged race, have other sharper tools for that in the instances I want, so who cares about 0.1 secs or whatever it may be.

Originally Posted by BlackJetE90

I think it has more to do with enthusiasts. Not really US vs World. I watch all the shows/reviews from UK and Europe, the reviewers always say they would prefer a manual gearbox over the flappy paddles. Certain car enthusiasts enjoy being fully involved in the car.

Exactly. If folks recall one of the initial Car Magazine reviews (Chris Harris), he noted how much more turbo lag the M5 has relative to the X5-6 ///M, which of course he found surprising, and suggested in the manual M5 it won't be as pronounced, and IIRC perhaps the better option in his mind.

Originally Posted by ddmerino

I think some just do not get the point. In the U.S. it is hardly possible to go greater than 55MPH without the cops behind you. Unless you go to the tracks where a DCT would be desirable for fast shifting, most people driving a manual in the U.S. enjoy the involvement with the car's acceleration -- this is not some "macho" thing that some seem to insinuate is the reason -- albeit somewhat infantile as what Mr JBlack4083 refer to as "manhood complex". I have experienced driving friends' M3's with DCT on long/short drives and just did not enjoy the experience -- found it really boring. To each his own and to say that anybody has a manhood complex just because of this is rather telling of the person insinuating such. Again, it is "involvement in driving" experience that most manual enthusiasts are craving and not because they have a manhood complex.

AMEN!