[Q4P]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

You nailed it in several points there. I'll expand.

Noise: anyone who talks about exhausts 'fixing' the sound has a serious issue. The reason is sounds like a turbo car is because it's turbocharged. There is not one turbocharged car in the entire world that sounds anything like a high performance NA one. Not one.
Car and Driver did a comparo a while back on the GTR, M3 and Porsche Turbo. If you watch the video, it's evident that the only one that sounds like a sports car is the M3. The GTR and Porsche sound like absolutely nothing. BORING!

Experience: this is the whole point of the cars. It's nice to take XX seconds to reach YY speed, but in real life what matters is the experience.
This new car has much, much better numbers than the E60 M5. That was expected. It also sounds like a turbo car, with the same uninspiring note as all the rest of the turbo cars. This is an important part of the experience.
A 335 with boltons is way faster than an E46 M3, but after driving both I had no doubt in my mind: M3. It actually sounds and feels like a sports car. The 335 feels and sounds like a more powerful version of a 330: a civilian car.

The US: And here is the best part of all. I'm appalled when I read about people whining about the lack of torque of the V10 of the desire to have torque monster. What for exactly? On the V10, after pressing the throttle 10 consecutive seconds you can end up in jail.
Hell, I've lived most of my life in Europe, and there I can see the alllure of a retardedly powerful car that sounds like a vacuum cleaner... but here? Come on guys. Here you'll spend almost all the time in the M at 80 mph, and won't even have a nice V10 wail to accompany you.


I'm also surprised when I read all the 'See? The new one is faster than the old one!!'. Yeah duh!! No one ever said it would be slower. By making a turbo M5 they have gone a good ways towards killing the excitement of an M car. Several reviews have already mentioned this (Fifth Gear, Car and Driver), but even if they hadn't, it's still obvious.


I guess the underlying issue is that a lot of people on the boards know little about cars. It's disturbing to read all the 'put an exhaust' comments here and elsewhere, very disturbing. Regarding the 'lack of torque': that's what a special engine has. Low torque, high rpm screamers belong in sports cars. Turbo engines, no matter how powerful they are, are great for soccer moms and others who don't know what a gearshift is.


SYT_Shadow

I won't even attempt to answer this because you are delusional. You just said that turbo cars are for soccer moms and they belong there. In other words WRC and the entire rally world doesn't count; neither does F1 because it may be going to Turbo DI 4 cylinder motors in 2013 (the ultimate racing development and ultimate and most advanced automotive performance sport in the entire world where even BMW Sauber doesn't do so well)...

Then you say the GTR sounds boring... lol One of the most advanced cars in the world that will run circles around an M3, M5 and every other BMW ever made and has the grip of glue on all four tires and you are complaining about its sound which is heavenly especially with LC engaged. hahah

Then you say lack of torque... No one said lack of torque; the M5 has plenty at 380 but its incomparable to having over 500 at such a low RPM range which will definitely add to the experience of the car.

The only real complaint I see here is the sound because there is nothing worse about this new car compared to the old one. If that's your only complaint and you think sound makes or breaks a car; then you had much better choices than an M3 or M5.

Originally Posted by Ateam

If you are getting to the point of which other way could bmw feasibly have gone? Well I agree with you financially it makes a lot of sense for the next cycle of cars BUT M cars have never been financially good moves to many degrees.

The last e60 and e90 M's were probably some of the most expensive (probably the most expensive) bmw ever had to spend on engineering. I am pretty positive they do not make a big profit on their m cars when it is all said and done comparing R and D etc. With that said, by making and keeping the "m" brand something special, something that has kept winning time and time and time and time again in car mags-meaning bmw is plastered front and center on everything as "win" "the best" etc. The payoff was 10000 fold in marketing and sales of all of their other brands. It also made for very loyal drivers, the most loyal in the business. So although it was not always the most cost effectively built car, it served them well for many years in the overall picture.

The e90 m3 would have been WAY cheaper to just use a tuned N54 engine in there or a variety of the N54 or something else that was already developed but instead it developed a speciific engine just for the one car. Same for the e60 M5.

So back to my point-I think the route bmw should have gone with the new M cars is have TWO engine options. A traditional NA engine and a TT engine for those that really want the gas savings and torque.

The cost of two engines could have been easily offset by the fact the TT engine cost them nothing since it was already implemented in the million other M cars out there-x5/6M and more to come.

So while this option would be more costly to implement-it would continue the longstanding benefit that was had by generations past-the ongoing winning mag articles and the king of all sports cars. The true enthusiasts would have stuck around because they could still get the forumula that worked for them.

This would be a la porsche-they offer the turbo but offer the gt3 and carrera as well.

Simple- M3, M5 and M6 should have a high revving HA engine and turbo.

This would also really have neglible impact on their fleet mpg numbers since so so few people would opt for the NA engine in the scheme of things that it really would not make a dent. Although few would pick it-it would be an important few-the enthusiasts and performance testing/marketing world-which like I said is something that I feel has been tossed aside by bmw which IMO will come back to bite them in years to come.

Your best answer to my question is that BMW should have offered the new BMW M models with 2 engine options? One for the purists and one for the street turbo guys... lol

I know why you don't work at BMW.