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      07-12-2012, 12:56 PM   #1
TeRRoRiFiC35
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Third person within a year just quit my department.....

So I just started this new job at a new company a little over 4 months ago (I'm an accountant fyi). Today marks the third person to quit within a year with the new manager of the department I work in. The main reason why people have been quiting is because of my managers attitude towards people. Pretty much a majority of the people within my department have ill feelings towards him because of how he speaks to other people. Another factor is that he barely knows his job and can't even describe what anyone in the department does. With this news today, it has started to make me question if I should still stick with my plan of staying here the full year and then looking for a new job. I wanted to stay the full year to get a full bonus payout and so I wouldn't have to pay back my signing bonus.

In this new job, I went from polar opposites of the spectrum as far as work load goes. Now I rarely do any work and find myself spending pretty much my entire day on the internet. The segregation of duties the company has for internal controls is the reason for this. It is also located in a area where I was not originally looking to work in the first place. Pretty much the entire reason I took this job was because of the increased pay, it wasn't as far as a drive (old job was 50 miles each way; 75 each way before I moved. Now I only do 25 miles each way), and I thought I would get more experience (actually turned out I am overqualified for this job). In my old accounting role I worked within the inventory/cost accounting department where I would overlap with AP, AR, Credit and Collections, Tax, Treasury, and Operations (also did governmental reporting). Now I do inventory/cost accounting with a small portion of AP and some governmental reporting. I know if and when I start looking again, one thing is going to hold me back, not having my CPA license. In order to get that, I still need to get my masters degree.... I also don't feel like doing that right now since I have been out of school for 4 years now.
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      07-12-2012, 01:01 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by TeRRoRiFiC35 View Post
So I just started this new job at a new company a little over 4 months ago (I'm an accountant fyi). Today marks the third person to quit within a year with the new manager of the department I work in. The main reason why people have been quiting is because of my managers attitude towards people. Pretty much a majority of the people within my department have ill feelings towards him because of how he speaks to other people. Another factor is that he barely knows his job and can't even describe what anyone in the department does. With this news today, it has started to make me question if I should still stick with my plan of staying here the full year and then looking for a new job. I wanted to stay the full year to get a full bonus payout and so I wouldn't have to pay back my signing bonus.

In this new job, I went from polar opposites of the spectrum as far as work load goes. Now I rarely do any work and find myself spending pretty much my entire day on the internet. The segregation of duties the company has for internal controls is the reason for this. It is also located in a area where I was not originally looking to work in the first place. Pretty much the entire reason I took this job was because of the increased pay, it wasn't as far as a drive (old job was 50 miles each way; 75 each way before I moved. Now I only do 25 miles each way), and I thought I would get more experience (actually turned out I am overqualified for this job). In my old accounting role I worked within the inventory/cost accounting department where I would overlap with AP, AR, Credit and Collections, Tax, Treasury, and Operations (also did governmental reporting). Now I do inventory/cost accounting with a small portion of AP and some governmental reporting. I know if and when I start looking again, one thing is going to hold me back, not having my CPA license. In order to get that, I still need to get my masters degree.... I also don't feel like doing that right now since I have been out of school for 4 years now.
You don't want it bad enough. There's your problem.
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      07-12-2012, 01:08 PM   #3
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You don't want it bad enough. There's your problem.
You're right, I don't want to get my CPA. I didn't go into public accounting for that reason among other things. I don't think it should be a huge determing factor when it comes to jobs to begin with for the pure fact you are going to have to train a person to the departments standards no matter if they have their CPA or not. Heck, with my dealings with CPA through the public firms, they are more or less knowledgable about a companies practices to begin with. At my old job I would have to reteach the auditor that came in on how to do my job, even after giving them detailed instructions with pictures and diagrams so they could do it themselves. Plus having to do the 120 hrs of continuing education every 3 yrs on top of that doesn't thrill me.
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      07-12-2012, 01:43 PM   #4
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Man... NJ needs a masters for CPA??? WTF? Come to Cali. No masters need, better weather, and better roads...
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      07-12-2012, 01:47 PM   #5
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Man... NJ needs a masters for CPA??? WTF? Come to Cali. No masters need, better weather, and better roads...
And no jobs. Don't all states require 150 hours now for a CPA?
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      07-12-2012, 01:51 PM   #6
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Man... NJ needs a masters for CPA??? WTF? Come to Cali. No masters need, better weather, and better roads...
Most states require 150 credit hours as one of the qualifications to sit for the CPA. The other is you either need your masters or have worked in a public accounting firm for 2 yrs. So no matter what it was a lose lose. I wasn't staying the extra time at college to get 3 worthless minors in history, psychology, and communications just waiting to go to grad school in the summer. I graduated with one credit over the minimum needed to graduate because I knew what my major was going into college.
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      07-12-2012, 02:31 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by TeRRoRiFiC35 View Post
Most states require 150 credit hours as one of the qualifications to sit for the CPA. The other is you either need your masters or have worked in a public accounting firm for 2 yrs. So no matter what it was a lose lose. I wasn't staying the extra time at college to get 3 worthless minors in history, psychology, and communications just waiting to go to grad school in the summer. I graduated with one credit over the minimum needed to graduate because I knew what my major was going into college.
No state requires a Masters to obtain a CPA. Only a few (if any) are left where you can obtain the license after 120. The rest will allow you to sit for the exam after 120 hours and you must pass all 4 sections within 18 months of the day you received your first passing score. Once you pass, you can obtain your license after 1 year of experience under a CPA plus 30 more hours of schooling. The experience does not have to come at a public accounting firm. If you work for a department and your controller is a licensed CPA then that suffices.

The 30 hours can be obtained two ways. The first is you go take 30 additional hours of undergrad advanced accounting/finance related courses (I.E. 4000 level Audit 2, Tax 2, Forensic, Cost, etc). The second option is to attend a Masters of Accounting program which is usually 33 credit hours and takes 1 year to complete (a spring, summer and fall semester).

A CPA is a huge asset if you are an accountant. I can't state that enough. Your comments below show you truly don't understand the benefits it provides you:

Quote:
You're right, I don't want to get my CPA. I didn't go into public accounting for that reason among other things. I don't think it should be a huge determing factor when it comes to jobs to begin with for the pure fact you are going to have to train a person to the departments standards no matter if they have their CPA or not. Heck, with my dealings with CPA through the public firms, they are more or less knowledgable about a companies practices to begin with. At my old job I would have to reteach the auditor that came in on how to do my job, even after giving them detailed instructions with pictures and diagrams so they could do it themselves.
Whether you like it or not, a CPA is a huge determining factor in you moving up in the accounting world. Yes, in private industry someone is going to need to become familiarized with standards when they join a new company. Every single company has their own systems in place. You seem to brag about you knowing more than the auditors, but that is to be expected. Your company is just one of many the auditor will see throughout the entire year, each with a different accounting system. So they are not stupid, they just haven't seen your system before. Fact of the matter is you are insulated. You are only one piece of the larger cog that the auditor deals with and your AP/Inventory department is a tiny part of the overall audit. They will touch every single part of your company in their time there.

Fact of the matter is you could start out as a basic staff accountant in a company's accounting department and in 10 years work your way up to Senior AP accountant where you are in charge of the other AP clerks. For the last 10 years you've lived in the world of AP and know the system inside and out, but that's all you know.

Someone who started off in public accounting and got their CPA has spent the last 10 years working every engagement imaginable. For the first two years they were a staff dealing with only a few sections of the audit at a time. For years 3-5 they were a Senior who in-charged multimillion dollar engagements of billion dollar companies. They lead teams of staff and dealt directly with the Controllers and CFO's of companies. Years 6-10 they were a Manager/Senior Manager running multiple engagements at the same time and dealing with complex accounting issues and formed personal relationships with the leaders of the company including making presentations to the Board of Directors.

So after 10 years when the AP manager job opens up and you'd be looking to get promoted to it the company is interviewing someone who's only worked in public accounting for 3-4 years and has a much broader knowledge of the accounting needed to run a company. That person who started in public at the same time as you and is now a Senior Manager isn't interviewing for AP manager jobs, they are getting calls from clients and recruiters who are offering CFO and Controller positions.

Sorry to be harsh, but unless you suck it up and get your CPA you will never, ever make it to the upper levels of the company in an accounting roll. Every single time a position opens up above you they will fill it with someone from the outside. They might not know how the software works at your company, but big deal. You had to learn at some point and they can learn it too.

So suck it up. Go take night classes and get your extra hours. Buy a CPA prep course like Becker and get your damn license. In the end you'll be much better off.
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      07-12-2012, 02:32 PM   #8
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I see you are saying other people have ill feelings toward the manager. But you didn't state how you feel. Its not what other people think its about how you feel and if you are able to continue to do your job.

I had this happen when I took over as manager for a company. The whole purpose of hiring me was to get the department to straighten up, there were guidelines in place but no one was being held accountable, people were doing as they pleased and there were no consequences. So I stepped in and ran the place like its supposed to be ran and held people accountable for not performing as they should. Some people couldn't take the change and walked. The actual moral of the office ended up getting better and the team started performing like they should and now the place is running as it should. I am far from a bad or mean boss, I have a huge number of agents who follow me whereever I go due to my work ethic.

Its possible the people who quit just were not used to being held accountable, and to you its ok since you haven't experienced the latter.
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      07-12-2012, 03:04 PM   #9
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He talks down to everyone in the department. He has no clue of what is going on and it amazes me. A great example would be something that happened yesterday. I make a journal entry every month to move stuff from one account to another (I'm not going into specifics). The head of finance calls him and asks him what the entry was for. He had no clue what the person was talking about. The worst part is that my manager has to sign off and approve all journal entires, specifically this one. He literally had it in front of him about an hour before the call came in. It ended up with me having to explain it to the head of finance. This happens all the time, no matter what it is. It also doesn't help I get bored all the time. I like having work to do. I also like being involved in the preperation of the financials, which I have very little to do with now.

And I agree with you about moving up in the world without my CPA will be hard. But I don't agree that I should be having to have a CPA license to get a job as a staff or senior accountant; management yes or even a CPA equivalent like a CMA or something. In NJ, it is 2 yrs at being at a public accounting firm to qualify to sit for the exam.... I also didn't shit around in college and take courses I didn't need. I took all the accounting courses my accredited business school had to offer to undergrads. The reason I didn't go into public was I didn't want to be constantly moving around from place to place working all hours of the night no matter what time of the year it is. My auditing teacher my senior year didn't help the case with how horrible she was. Plus I graduated during the financial crisis where most public firms would hire you for the tax period, then law off everyone because they could get away with it then. I know the firms I've dealt with only have specific people for each department, they don't go into the other ones. I used to work with a girl who spent 4 years at one of the Big4 firms, she would tell me all these horror stories of what she had to do. She also ended up having the same exact job title as me, so it didn't help the case for me getting it. I also find it funny that I have completed over 40 hrs of the so called "continuing education" that is required from me getting bored at work and being able to use tools we have through the company to use it.
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      07-12-2012, 03:07 PM   #10
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Forgot to mention I originally started looking to see what else was available within the first month of working here, so that should give you some insight to how I really feel. Another reason I was going to stay the year was because it would look better on my resume if that happened instead of 4 months of being at a job.... It's harder to explain why you want to leave in that time period without having something negative to say in an interview (negative aspects don't help in interviews).
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      07-12-2012, 03:12 PM   #11
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He talks down to everyone in the department. He has no clue of what is going on and it amazes me. A great example would be something that happened yesterday. I make a journal entry every month to move stuff from one account to another (I'm not going into specifics). The head of finance calls him and asks him what the entry was for. He had no clue what the person was talking about. The worst part is that my manager has to sign off and approve all journal entires, specifically this one. He literally had it in front of him about an hour before the call came in. It ended up with me having to explain it to the head of finance. This happens all the time, no matter what it is. It also doesn't help I get bored all the time. I like having work to do. I also like being involved in the preperation of the financials, which I have very little to do with now.

And I agree with you about moving up in the world without my CPA will be hard. But I don't agree that I should be having to have a CPA license to get a job as a staff or senior accountant; management yes or even a CPA equivalent like a CMA or something. In NJ, it is 2 yrs at being at a public accounting firm to qualify to sit for the exam.... I also didn't shit around in college and take courses I didn't need. I took all the accounting courses my accredited business school had to offer to undergrads. The reason I didn't go into public was I didn't want to be constantly moving around from place to place working all hours of the night no matter what time of the year it is. My auditing teacher my senior year didn't help the case with how horrible she was. Plus I graduated during the financial crisis where most public firms would hire you for the tax period, then law off everyone because they could get away with it then. I know the firms I've dealt with only have specific people for each department, they don't go into the other ones. I used to work with a girl who spent 4 years at one of the Big4 firms, she would tell me all these horror stories of what she had to do. She also ended up having the same exact job title as me, so it didn't help the case for me getting it. I also find it funny that I have completed over 40 hrs of the so called "continuing education" that is required from me getting bored at work and being able to use tools we have through the company to use it.
Who does this person report to? How the hell did he get this job. Now on the other hand you can take advantage of this and see it as a possibility for a step up in your career. If you had the go getter mentality you should start helping him with what he needs to know, since your bored at work this will help pass the time. Hopefully these efforts will get noticed by your managers higher ups and if he is as incompetent as you say he is he probably won't last much longer and they will need someone to replace him. And if you were the guy going above and beyond showing him how to do his job you would be a perfect candidate to replace him. But hey that's just my .02 cents.
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      07-12-2012, 03:17 PM   #12
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They say the more you make the less you do. Finish out the year and move on. Sounds like you're manager days is numbered. Trust that the person who oversees him is wondering why those 3 people quit.
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      07-12-2012, 03:22 PM   #13
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Who does this person report to? How the hell did he get this job. Now on the other hand you can take advantage of this and see it as a possibility for a step up in your career. If you had the go getter mentality you should start helping him with what he needs to know, since your bored at work this will help pass the time. Hopefully these efforts will get noticed by your managers higher ups and if he is as incompetent as you say he is he probably won't last much longer and they will need someone to replace him. And if you were the guy going above and beyond showing him how to do his job you would be a perfect candidate to replace him. But hey that's just my .02 cents.
If my last job taught me anything, it would to not do that. My first year at my old job I worked half my days for 4 months in the credit and collections department on request of the controller. That ended up with me having to also do that the next 2 years. Then an accounting clerks job was absorbed into mine after one quit. After that, our senior accountant quit to move to Canada with her husband and I took on her entire job. I did this for about a year and a half, received no raise, no advancement at all (mind you she became a senior accountant within the first year of being there after they promoted someone to management; she also didn't have her CPA license). Right before I was going to leave, they fired two managers from different departments and my boss was absorbing the fixed assets department. I was then going to absorb someone elses job in that department too. That was the final straw for me. I was doing a one and half to two hour drive each way to and from work everyday and not getting any sort of advancement or prospects of it.
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      07-12-2012, 03:31 PM   #14
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I would say welcome to my world.

The worst part about my last job is that the incompetent people were coddled, with no consequences for their poor performance. This meant that the management put all the work load on the smart/hard workers...

Unfortunately, you're bound to deal with this at some point. Not a whole lot you can do to avoid it. You could quit, get another job, and find out it's the same way there too. I'd just deal with it for now, eventually the guy will probably screw up and get fired.
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      07-12-2012, 03:32 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by TeRRoRiFiC35 View Post
And I agree with you about moving up in the world without my CPA will be hard. But I don't agree that I should be having to have a CPA license to get a job as a staff or senior accountant; management yes or even a CPA equivalent like a CMA or something. In NJ, it is 2 yrs at being at a public accounting firm to qualify to sit for the exam.... I also didn't shit around in college and take courses I didn't need. I took all the accounting courses my accredited business school had to offer to undergrads. The reason I didn't go into public was I didn't want to be constantly moving around from place to place working all hours of the night no matter what time of the year it is. My auditing teacher my senior year didn't help the case with how horrible she was. Plus I graduated during the financial crisis where most public firms would hire you for the tax period, then law off everyone because they could get away with it then. I know the firms I've dealt with only have specific people for each department, they don't go into the other ones. I used to work with a girl who spent 4 years at one of the Big4 firms, she would tell me all these horror stories of what she had to do. She also ended up having the same exact job title as me, so it didn't help the case for me getting it. I also find it funny that I have completed over 40 hrs of the so called "continuing education" that is required from me getting bored at work and being able to use tools we have through the company to use it.
There is no two year requirement to sit in NJ. Assuming you have taken the required classed you can sit after 120: (Straight from NASBA's site) http://www.nasba.org/files/2011/02/I..._NewJersey.pdf . Basically, if you received your bachelors in Accounting you have the requisite classes to sit for the exam.

Of course no CPA is needed for a staff or senior job, but if you ever aspire to move higher than that then you should get a CPA. I too graduated during the financial crisis and don't agree with your comment about them hiring people for tax season and then laying them off. First and foremost, there are multiple different practices in a public accounting firm with the main three being Audit, Tax and Advisory. Someone who joins Audit and Advisory will not generally (unless there is a massive shortage) deal with taxes at all. You might only work in Audit, but when you do you will touch all aspects of the audit. If you work in tax, you will deal with all areas of the taxes as opposed to a tax staff at the company only dealing with calculating one certain provision. I have multiple friends who I went to school with and we all found jobs and are all still employed by our firms. It might have taken a few of us a bit longer to find our jobs but in the end we were all hired. There wasn't any mass layoffs at the end of each practice's respective busy seasons. Rather, the companies would trim the fat. During the boom times under performers were able to squeak by. Now if you aren't cutting it they will let you loose.

As far as moving place to place, I'm guessing you mean client to client. My daily drives are never more than 50 miles, plus I get paid mileage, so it's not that bad having to drive that far. Most clients are within 20 miles. I'm on each engagement anywhere from 3-8 weeks and I like the variety. It breaks up the jobs and stops things from becoming monotonous. Horror stories? Sure, the hours suck during busy season (80 hour+ weeks), there are constantly shit storms going on that need to be taken care of, and sometimes the clients are assholes to you, but in the end it's worth it. After 2 years I was getting offers such as the one below:

Quote:
XXXXXX,

I found your profile on Linkedin.com and I wanted to speak to you regarding a Accounting Product Manager role we are currently looking to fill in our Alpharetta, GA office.

We are looking for someone who has a strong background in accounting, financial reporting, and some stock plan administrator.

I would love to chat with you for a few minutes.
Please let me know when you are free to discuss furtherů

XXXXX
Client Recruitment Specialist
That was from a very large and well known online stock broker. Does public accounting suck? Sure, but there are a lot of perks, the biggest one being if you put in the time all kinds of doors open to you that wouldn't be there otherwise.
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      07-12-2012, 03:59 PM   #16
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That was from a very large and well known online stock broker. Does public accounting suck? Sure, but there are a lot of perks, the biggest one being if you put in the time all kinds of doors open to you that wouldn't be there otherwise.

I get those all the time but for staff and senior accountant positions. Its actually how I got this job. What I do now is somewhat of a specialization because it is less likely for someone to have a heavy background in cost accounting these days (but then again, I want to get out of cost and go to corporate finance hence why I would want another staff position so I can learn). I had 3 yrs of internships for a publicly traded company (offered a job but had to move to another state), then did contract work for a not-for-profit for 4 months, worked at my old company for 3 1/2 years where I received no advancement at all (top 5 in their industry), and now 4 months here (fortune 250 company). What pisses me off more is that everytime I got those messages from LinkedIn (since I have my resume blocked on other sites now) I would always tell them I have a job and am not looking.

I also don't want to start going to night school for my masters if I'm not positive I'm staying in one place, makes no financial sense to me.
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      07-12-2012, 04:11 PM   #17
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(but then again, I want to get out of cost and go to corporate finance hence why I would want another staff position so I can learn). I had 3 yrs of internships for a publicly traded company (offered a job but had to move to another state)
I work in corporate finance and can say that a CPA is of little, if any value in my field.
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      07-13-2012, 08:37 AM   #18
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If my last job taught me anything, it would to not do that. My first year at my old job I worked half my days for 4 months in the credit and collections department on request of the controller. That ended up with me having to also do that the next 2 years. Then an accounting clerks job was absorbed into mine after one quit. After that, our senior accountant quit to move to Canada with her husband and I took on her entire job. I did this for about a year and a half, received no raise, no advancement at all (mind you she became a senior accountant within the first year of being there after they promoted someone to management; she also didn't have her CPA license). Right before I was going to leave, they fired two managers from different departments and my boss was absorbing the fixed assets department. I was then going to absorb someone elses job in that department too. That was the final straw for me. I was doing a one and half to two hour drive each way to and from work everyday and not getting any sort of advancement or prospects of it.
Did you ever speak up and ask for something or were you just waiting for it to happen? Closed mouths don't get fed.
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      07-13-2012, 11:18 AM   #19
TeRRoRiFiC35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RambleJ View Post
Did you ever speak up and ask for something or were you just waiting for it to happen? Closed mouths don't get fed.
I said it the last 2 years I was there when I had my yearly review. I even made a point of how low the raise I received wouldn't even cover a months worth of gas. They knew I was starting to get unhappy.
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