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      09-14-2012, 07:08 AM   #1
TommyAD
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BMW M5 F10 PP-Performance "Project Car #1"

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Hello Bimmers,

thought some of you might be interested to see our latest status on the M5 F10 4.4l TT.

After beeing the first company which recieved the M5 F10 last year and put the car on our MAHA LPS 3000 Dyno we also achieved to be the first who tuned the car worldwide.

Mission: The strongest M5 F10 on the streets :-)

Step 1:

*Modified M5 F10 Downpipes by PP-Performance
*Change of the rear muffler from Manhart Racing

Find attached some pictures:

The Dynosheet is from the stock car.
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      09-17-2012, 02:37 AM   #2
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Step 2:

*Carbon Fiber Air Intake by Gruppe M
*PP-Performance ECU Remap


Mission Accomplished: The strongest M5 F10 on the streets :-)

The final numbers: 639.7hp 824.7Nm


For any questions, more informations or anything else post or contact me please.


Cheers
Thomas
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      09-17-2012, 07:52 AM   #3
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manhart racing has aswell 640 hp and dähler aswell.
over her in germany rumors says that this tuning steps (available so far) ar all prefactory datas, and that the tuners do have all problems to crack the software data sofar of the m5f10 engine by there own.
Kelleners, acschnitzer etc are all around 620-640hp, manhart racing told me they should be ready with a 730 hp step next spring 2013 (reenforced,rear axel, reenforced transmession as well..)

It is obvious that the x5/6m engine is over 700ph, but the better/newer m5 f10 engine wasnt able to crak for this power output...
Very curious who will be the first one with a serious tune over the 700hp...

Last edited by m-ch; 09-17-2012 at 10:42 AM.
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      09-17-2012, 10:02 AM   #4
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In this video uploader says that a stock Monte Carlo Blue M5 F10 is faster than the Black Stage 2 PP-Performance, any comments on this?

With all due respect, but I'm also yet to see a live video comparison and uneditted dashboard acceleration video showing how much faster those horsepower numbers are in reality and 0-100/200/300/quarter mile numbers or something that can show what can be expected in reality and on the road

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      09-17-2012, 10:39 AM   #5
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or this video where an early stock m5 f10 was very very quick..

"the word was out that this car had a "pre database ecu" which was used before public launch by several test cars from the factory..




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-70c9s3XW0
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      09-17-2012, 12:03 PM   #6
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very nice, keep us updated!
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      09-18-2012, 12:57 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m-ch View Post
manhart racing has aswell 640 hp and dähler aswell.
over her in germany rumors says that this tuning steps (available so far) ar all prefactory datas, and that the tuners do have all problems to crack the software data sofar of the m5f10 engine by there own.
Kelleners, acschnitzer etc are all around 620-640hp, manhart racing told me they should be ready with a 730 hp step next spring 2013 (reenforced,rear axel, reenforced transmession as well..)

It is obvious that the x5/6m engine is over 700ph, but the better/newer m5 f10 engine wasnt able to crak for this power output...
Very curious who will be the first one with a serious tune over the 700hp...

Hey m-ch,

actually im from Germany :-)

Well the differance between us and the mentioned tuners is, that we are specialized in software, we develope our own stuff and are not buying from outside.

And yes all tuners offer a Stage 1 but as I said we want to have the strongest on the street and not on the paper. How many dynosheets you saw from other tuners? I think until now only we have before and after dynosheets.

There is a lot of potential in the engine, our X5M/X6M RS720 setup is the strongest available on the market. At least if you compare videos and office races to argue with.

So as I said there is a differance between putting something on the website and advertise it and actually having it ready :-)
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      09-18-2012, 12:58 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by singularity View Post
In this video uploader says that a stock Monte Carlo Blue M5 F10 is faster than the Black Stage 2 PP-Performance, any comments on this?

With all due respect, but I'm also yet to see a live video comparison and uneditted dashboard acceleration video showing how much faster those horsepower numbers are in reality and 0-100/200/300/quarter mile numbers or something that can show what can be expected in reality and on the road

There is no Stage 2 software yet...
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      09-18-2012, 01:02 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m-ch View Post
or this video where an early stock m5 f10 was very very quick..

"the word was out that this car had a "pre database ecu" which was used before public launch by several test cars from the factory..




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-70c9s3XW0
Not only this car!
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      09-18-2012, 01:16 AM   #10
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siiick!! the amount of potential from this motor is insane!
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      09-18-2012, 03:18 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TommyAD View Post
Hey m-ch,

actually im from Germany :-)

Well the differance between us and the mentioned tuners is, that we are specialized in software, we develope our own stuff and are not buying from outside.

And yes all tuners offer a Stage 1 but as I said we want to have the strongest on the street and not on the paper. How many dynosheets you saw from other tuners? I think until now only we have before and after dynosheets.

There is a lot of potential in the engine, our X5M/X6M RS720 setup is the strongest available on the market. At least if you compare videos and office races to argue with.

So as I said there is a differance between putting something on the website and advertise it and actually having it ready :-)
HI Thommy, than probably you followed as well the tread in m-forum.de about tuning the m5f10 and the experienced we maid be asking several tuners (also pp-peformance was asked by one member).
I dont want to make a big thing on it, but at the end there was just manhart racing witch offerd an instand tune for the m5f10 with warranty (so called warranty). All the others had some issue (pp-performance told one member that the m5f10 is "chef sache" and the boss is just a few days away (i am not saying by now means that this is not true)

http://www.m-forum.de/forum/showthre...ighlight=m5f10

but we got the feeling that the tuning of the m5f10 is much more tricky than for example the x6m/x5m engine...
And of course if it comes down to warranty, than again it looks completly different. BMW will refuse anything if a tune is detected.

I for my part will wait a few months till some results are out (0-300kmh etc) and reability is proofed with the transmission.
By no means i doubt the possibilities of the m5f10 engine

Last edited by m-ch; 09-18-2012 at 03:30 AM.
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      09-18-2012, 03:39 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m-ch View Post
HI Thommy, than probably you followed as well the tread in m-forum.de about tuning the m5f10 and the experienced we maid be asking several tuners (also pp-peformance was asked by one member).
I dont want to make a big thing on it, but at the end there was just manhart racing witch offerd an instand tune for the m5f10 with warranty (so called warranty). All the others had some issue (pp-performance told one member that the m5f10 is "chef sache" and the boss is just a few days away (i am not saying by now means that this is not true) but we got the feeling that the tuning of the m5f10 is much more tricky than for example the x6m/x5m engine...
And of course if it comes down to warranty, than again it looks completly different. BMW will refuse anything if a tune is detected.

I for my part will wait a few months till some results are out (0-300kmh etc) and reability is proofed with the transmission.
By no means i doubt the possibilities of the m5f10 engine
Hello m-ch,

well Im new to the forum, so i didnt read the post.

Well I work in the headoffice in Abu Dhabi and not in Germany, so I dont know what has been said/written.

Im here to answer questions and inform people about our tuning and latest projects :-)


Cheers
Thomas
tk@pp-performance.ae
PP-Performance - "We lead, others follow."
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      09-18-2012, 03:57 AM   #13
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no problem at all, hope you have soon a 700+kit available.

How do you judge actuell the transmission.
It s been said that the limits are just around 700nm torque, designed by Getrag, so could be nm above the 700 already be a risque without reenforcing it..

Any experience on that
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      09-18-2012, 06:09 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m-ch View Post
no problem at all, hope you have soon a 700+kit available.

How do you judge actuell the transmission.
It s been said that the limits are just around 700nm torque, designed by Getrag, so could be nm above the 700 already be a risque without reenforcing it..

Any experience on that
We are working on it..

GETRAG is maybe 10km away from my home town in Germany

850Nm/900Nm is the maximum.


Cheers
Thomas
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      09-18-2012, 01:01 PM   #15
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Cant wait to see what tuning solutions and power you guys come up with
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      09-25-2012, 10:57 AM   #16
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this car has enough power...you should start thinking about tuning the brakes not the engine...
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      09-25-2012, 11:04 AM   #17
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Finally the BEAST is waking up... Great work gents...
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      09-25-2012, 11:06 AM   #18
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...and I never used my 340hp/350tq to its full potential. This is insane!!
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      09-25-2012, 01:03 PM   #19
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Looks Great! Except...

Congratulations and looks great, but that window trim?!? Really? Its 2012 and you are not driving a Merc.
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      09-25-2012, 01:26 PM   #20
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Congrats on the numbers.
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      09-25-2012, 03:13 PM   #21
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I noticed that there seems to be a lot more torque, but the Prad (wheel horsepower) is only about 13hp more after the tune than std (461,9 vs 475,5).

The dyno pics shows that the frictional losses have risen from 89,2hp on the std run to 104,9hp on the tuned run, a difference of approximately 15hp (which seems quite a large increase in drivetrain losses - 20% more than the std car).

Also the correction numbers (Pmot/Pnorm) are much higher on the tuned run than on the std run. For std run the correction is from 551hp to 583hp (32hp ). For the tuned run the correction is from 580hp to 639hp (59hp).

The correction (Pnorm) is supposed to recalculate the hp to conform with the relevant standards (in this case EU directive 80/1269). This is things like temperature, air pressure etc. Meaning that on a run at 33 deg you will have quite a big correction of the Pnorm HP number (because a engine looses performance at high temperatures and the Pnorm HP is recalculated to be the estimated hp at 20 deg). On manufacturers dynos they have a tempered climate so that the engine operates at exactly the Pnorm parameters.

I noticed that the first run is done at 25deg and with a intake temperature of 52deg. The tuned run is done at a stated 33deg and a stated intake temperature of 72,7deg... (was this dyno session done in the UAE?)

This is probably also the reason the corrected numbers differ so much between the two runs. Ideally the runs should have been done with the same temperatures for comparison purposes. Because all we can really see from the two dyno runs is that the whp differs 13hp (the rest of the hp numbers are mathematical calculations to adjust for temperature differences and are therefor not "real" numbers)

I'm not saying PP have done anything wrong here, far from it.

It is however a source of concern on these kind of dynos that altering temperature inputs in to the dynos computer can give you the numbers you want. Tampering the sensors (or placing them somewhere warmer) to give you a very high intake temperature, and/or ambient temperature, reading for instance will give you a large correction factor from Pmot to Pnorm and hence boost your claimed hp numbers (and some tuners have done this in the past to boost their claimed numbers).

However, assuming correct temperature readings, the correction from Pmot to Pnorm is fairly accurate and, in this case, explains the large difference in correction numbers between the two runs (due to much higher temperatures in the last run).

Last edited by Boss330; 09-26-2012 at 05:20 AM.
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      09-25-2012, 09:12 PM   #22
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Getting these numbers from an early tune, intake, and exhaust? I cannot wait to see what the future holds for this engine. I really do believe it needs the bump I'd say the 700 mark is good anything above that I think is excessive but it's so heavy and well made (cough oil pump cough) that it can handle that.
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