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      10-17-2012, 08:43 PM   #45
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Who's to say anything even changes though? According to that last posted update, ///M LCI changes will be minimal. I for one probably wouldn't even opt for LED lighting, and like others, I need the car at a certain time. Im going to contact my salesman tomorrow to see what he can find out - if not for anything to plant the seed that Im not happy about the diminished resale value of a 2013 vs a 2014.

Was the E60 LCI drastic? My last experience with an M was the e46...I had a 2001 and they did an e46 LCI in 2003 I believe. BMW changed the front lights of the regular e46, but left the M untouched other than retrofittable LED taillights. I believe they added CSL wheels as an option as well, deleted two color options, and added two.
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      10-18-2012, 12:37 AM   #46
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Doubt that the character line at the top of the grill will make the M5.

The F10 bumper extends all the way up to the grill and that character line. If they keep the mold that makes the M5 front bumper, I have a hard time believing they'll remold the M5 bumper to include a slight character line at the top.

Then we're talking lights, which is not a big deal.

The E39 2000 -> 2001 shift was huge, though, so hopefully not along those lines (tail lights, angel eyes, 16:9 nav, less dorky steering wheel).
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      10-18-2012, 02:22 AM   #47
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everybody is concerned about the extrerior changes, but knowing that during the complete lifecycle of a model (including facelifts) more than 2000 parts are changed , I am more interested what changes are done under the hood and in the interior.
Exterior wise: logic they will offer LED lights; However changes will be minor.

And related to the M5 , it will even be less than minor; Remember the face lift of the E90 series .. the m3 wasn't affected ..

And even so .. our M5's still are great cars!!!!
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      10-18-2012, 05:15 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sfm5 View Post
The E39 2000 -> 2001 shift was huge, though, so hopefully not along those lines (tail lights, angel eyes, 16:9 nav, less dorky steering wheel).
They announced F10 facelift will have new LED head lights, redesigned tail lights graphics, new iDrive, updates to steering wheel among many other "updates".

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
The changes are subtle on the surface it is underneath that will really count.

A new re-profiled front end incorporating the latest kidney grille (with a forward looking stance/slant and thicker chrome outline) brings prominence to the front of the car.

The overall look for the lower intakes is taken from the 2010 BMW Concept Active hybrid 5 although incorporating air curtain technology and depending on model, further decorative trim elements.

Finishing off the cosmetic side of things The 5er will be offered with adaptive LEDs as an option , updated taillight graphics and a reprofiled rear diffuser. The Front wing mirrors follow the rest of the recent BMW line by incorporating the side indicators.

The next-gen six cylinder engine that will premiere with the F32 BMW 4er Coupe in spring will be available taking power out substantially higher than the outgoing N55. The engine will also feature BMW's Cylinder dimming recently introduced on the 7er and other aspects of the latest EfficientDynamics features.

Further inclusions of the latest four cylinders including a petrol powered EfficientDynamics model. Rounding off the regular 5er will be the latest inclusion of the BMW V8 in the 550i with more power and cylinder dimming technology for a more efficient drive and the M550d performance diesel.

And rounding off will be the usual interior trim , exterior colour and wheel re-designs. New technology such as the latest iDrive , Connected Drive features and in-car entertainment (B&O sound system).

The priority changes are effected to the steering which is reconfigured to be more communicative. A more class-leading ride and dynamic proficient handling updates in order to improve the overall impression of the car. The changes also apply to the BMW 5er Touring models and BMW 5er Gran Turismo.

The M-Sport packet's receive a slight minimal refresh aswell as optional M Performance accessories updates.

The updated BMW 5er line will premiere next Summer in time for sales in September where the car will receive its official debut at the IAA in September.

Like all M car LCI updates, changes to the M5 are minimal in regards to exterior updates.

The China only BMW 5er Li will premiere around the same time.
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      10-18-2012, 07:30 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nasmo View Post
everybody is concerned about the extrerior changes, but knowing that during the complete lifecycle of a model (including facelifts) more than 2000 parts are changed , I am more interested what changes are done under the hood and in the interior.
Exterior wise: logic they will offer LED lights; However changes will be minor.

And related to the M5 , it will even be less than minor; Remember the face lift of the E90 series .. the m3 wasn't affected ..

And even so .. our M5's still are great cars!!!!
The E90 M3 got the completely redesigned taillights and new iDrive in 2009. Only a year after its 2008 debut.

But you are right...the front did not change at all
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      10-18-2012, 07:33 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patsc23 View Post
Who's to say anything even changes though? According to that last posted update, ///M LCI changes will be minimal. I for one probably wouldn't even opt for LED lighting, and like others, I need the car at a certain time. Im going to contact my salesman tomorrow to see what he can find out - if not for anything to plant the seed that Im not happy about the diminished resale value of a 2013 vs a 2014.

Was the E60 LCI drastic? My last experience with an M was the e46...I had a 2001 and they did an e46 LCI in 2003 I believe. BMW changed the front lights of the regular e46, but left the M untouched other than retrofittable LED taillights. I believe they added CSL wheels as an option as well, deleted two color options, and added two.
E60 facelift in 2008 was much nicer then the pre facelift model (2004-2007)
New headlights, redesigned front and rear bumpers, different wheels! And some minor interior changes
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      10-18-2012, 07:38 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by singularity View Post
They announced F10 facelift will have new LED head lights, redesigned tail lights graphics, new iDrive, updates to steering wheel among many other "updates".
What was the latest change for US 2013s? Didn't they get a new Nav and a new speedometer already?
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      10-18-2012, 08:16 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patsc23 View Post
What was the latest change for US 2013s? Didn't they get a new Nav and a new speedometer already?
Yes, US cars already received the new navigation and minor nifty gadgets. The speedometer doesn't apply to ///M cars I believe, only regular series.

Generally companies are careful when releasing a new product with a vision to keep it the same for a certain period of time to avoid disappointment for customers who threw their cash on a new model (which incidentally come out to be the most loyal customers too).

Just because BMW can make an update doesn't mean that they should. It's not a software that you can download or update for free, it's a $200,000 car and a 30%-50% loss in resale value in only 1 year (due to being 'outdated' no matter how you twist it). I'm not psychologically ready for my car to be outdated already. It's like you marry a woman you love and see no need to look at any other woman, no matter their looks, age, personalities and traits - only to discover that a younger, improved version of your own wife has emerged.

BMW didn't announce facelift date, although they could have. They wanted to sell these 'old cars' and slowly released updates, price drops and now a complete facelift with it. They were too busy 'updating' a 1 year old car that costs as much as a house instead of focusing on taking out immediate issues such as the vibrating steering wheel, rear spring 'clunk' sound, oil pump, oil consumption and whatnot.

I know that I will be selling mine and getting a new one and that's exactly what BMW wants - tempting customers to throw more cash to satisfy their desires and releasing all-new model series to every digit they can, most of them having the same engine.
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      10-18-2012, 09:08 AM   #53
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random thought...

before the F10 was unveiled...there was talk about an AWD version.

Anyone recall the video of the disguised M5?



Has there been any update on this? I think it would be assume if it came as an option to have AWD.
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      10-18-2012, 04:48 PM   #54
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No xDrive for M5 due to weight issues.

That is why the M550d xDrive exists.
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      10-18-2012, 06:21 PM   #55
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I can understand that the F10 non-M has been out for a few years and could use an update, but with M5 owners taking delivery only in the past year, this LCI is way too early. That's part of the problem with releasing M cars long after the base models: when the base models are ready for an LCI, the M version is still practically brand new.

At the very least, BMW can offer a discounted upgrade path to owners of the pre-LCI M5. That's only if the headlights and taillights will fit.
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      10-18-2012, 07:27 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eclipsisNA
I can understand that the F10 non-M has been out for a few years and could use an update, but with M5 owners taking delivery only in the past year, this LCI is way too early. That's part of the problem with releasing M cars long after the base models: when the base models are ready for an LCI, the M version is still practically brand new.

At the very least, BMW can offer a discounted upgrade path to owners of the pre-LCI M5. That's only if the headlights and taillights will fit.
You don't see many M5 owners complaining because as the article says, the external changes to the M5 is basically none, except for the headlights.
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      10-18-2012, 08:42 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by chriscecc914 View Post
You don't see many M5 owners complaining because as the article says, the external changes to the M5 is basically none, except for the headlights.
I guess time will show once the full reveal becomes public and it is known what changes impacted the M5. Of course BMW reps will say it 'won't be much' as they have a whole entire model yr to sell and don't want ppl holding off for 11 months and impact sales.

As far as the F10 M5 becoming 'morally' old after it's first yr, I am no stranger to such. I had a 2000 E39 M5, which was the first yr the E39 M5 was sold in the US (it did sell as a 1999 in other continents). In 9 months it got awfully old, largely due to the 01 MY having:

1. Angel eye design (a first for BMW at the time)
2. Rear CELIS tail lights
3. Navigation screen went from a 4x3 to a 16x9
4. Steering wheel was significantly updated
5. Front PDC became available
6. M-Audio option became available

On paper seemingly small items, but when you put them together, all of a sudden it was very distinguishable if you had a first yr model. Take a look at values even today, a dozen yrs after its intro. Ppl stay away from the 00 model yr, and favor 01-03 LCI models and prices clearly show it.

I had a feeling the F10 M5 would be coming a year earlier (one reason is the F07 5-series GT came out a yr earlier than the F10 and would have been 'weird' to update the GT which is essentially a 5-series, and not carry it over to the rest of the lineup). I am glad my patience will be rewarded.
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      10-18-2012, 09:01 PM   #58
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No xDrive for M5 due to weight issues.

That is why the M550d xDrive exists.
Which we don't get here in the US, a country accounting for 50% or global ///M sales...

Rumors are the next E63 AMG will be offered in AWD trim, and Audi has confirmed the next generation RS 6 will be hitting the US coasts, both of which are likely to take away a lot of M5 sales. Just sayin'...
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      10-18-2012, 09:18 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eclipsisNA
I can understand that the F10 non-M has been out for a few years and could use an update, but with M5 owners taking delivery only in the past year, this LCI is way too early. That's part of the problem with releasing M cars long after the base models: when the base models are ready for an LCI, the M version is still practically brand new.

At the very least, BMW can offer a discounted upgrade path to owners of the pre-LCI M5. That's only if the headlights and taillights will fit.
Great idea. That would be a very welcome gesture BMW.
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      10-19-2012, 07:31 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
No xDrive for M5 due to weight issues.

That is why the M550d xDrive exists.
Thanks for the response Scott

Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M1 View Post
Which we don't get here in the US, a country accounting for 50% or global ///M sales...

Rumors are the next E63 AMG will be offered in AWD trim, and Audi has confirmed the next generation RS 6 will be hitting the US coasts, both of which are likely to take away a lot of M5 sales. Just sayin'...
I was thinking the same thing...except I didn't know abut the rs6 coming to the North American market. That is awesome
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      10-19-2012, 07:47 AM   #61
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http://www.worldcarfans.com/11210194...rldCarFans.com)



Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M1 View Post
Which we don't get here in the US, a country accounting for 50% or global ///M sales...

Rumors are the next E63 AMG will be offered in AWD trim, and Audi has confirmed the next generation RS 6 will be hitting the US coasts, both of which are likely to take away a lot of M5 sales. Just sayin'...
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      10-19-2012, 10:40 AM   #62
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Quote:
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Thanks for the response Scott



I was thinking the same thing...except I didn't know abut the rs6 coming to the North American market. That is awesome
Yes, we will need to be on the lookout for the new 2014 Audi RS6 and the RS7. I'm interested to see how both will turn out. It is rumored that Audi will produce the RS6 and the RS7 will 600hp from the factory. But the current S7 already weighs 4,350lbs.

In any case though, the F10 M5 is the benchmark to beat. Now we'll have Mercedes and Audi try to design high performance sedans that will try to surpass the F10 M5. Notice I said try. Also let's not forget about the next generation Cadillac CTS-V, whenever that is coming out.
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      10-19-2012, 11:00 AM   #63
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As usual my timing is impeccable - last saturday I struck my ED deal and Tuesday I see this thread. I just emailed my salesman to see IF the M5 is cosmetically changed with non-retrofittable parts, would they do better on price or offer me some other incentive. Only in the event of changes - I dont care about LED lighting since its an option I probably would not pay for anyhow. I feel like its a reasonable request. Chances are, nothing definitive would be out by March anyhow when I take delivery at Welt.

One thing I noticed, which I think someone mentioned, the M5 front bumper seems to be one integrated piece attached to the hood - Im guessing that would require a lot more work to incorporate the character line into the M version F10. Also, if the hood and fenders remain the same, wouldn't that also mean it could be retrofit?
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      10-19-2012, 03:31 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patsc23 View Post
As usual my timing is impeccable - last saturday I struck my ED deal and Tuesday I see this thread. I just emailed my salesman to see IF the M5 is cosmetically changed with non-retrofittable parts, would they do better on price or offer me some other incentive. Only in the event of changes - I dont care about LED lighting since its an option I probably would not pay for anyhow. I feel like its a reasonable request. Chances are, nothing definitive would be out by March anyhow when I take delivery at Welt.

One thing I noticed, which I think someone mentioned, the M5 front bumper seems to be one integrated piece attached to the hood - Im guessing that would require a lot more work to incorporate the character line into the M version F10. Also, if the hood and fenders remain the same, wouldn't that also mean it could be retrofit?

Not sure who your salesman is, but in my experience with 5+ salesman at BMW, I am the one usually giving them info about new models. Unless they are car (BMW) enthusiasts and frequent a site like this one, they are usually last to find out about these changes coming.

So anything he tells you is either bs or misinformed...so take it with a grain of salt!

FYI, as per the first page. the The F10 LCI will begin deliveries in August/September of 2013. So if your planning on doing ED in March, you won't be seeing the LCI Model yet. But if I were you, I would wait a few months because if the LCI gets the improved steering wheel and other minor details...then I would say it is worth the wait.

Also, please see see this comment from above by another member here:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M1 View Post
I guess time will show once the full reveal becomes public and it is known what changes impacted the M5. Of course BMW reps will say it 'won't be much' as they have a whole entire model yr to sell and don't want ppl holding off for 11 months and impact sales.

As far as the F10 M5 becoming 'morally' old after it's first yr, I am no stranger to such. I had a 2000 E39 M5, which was the first yr the E39 M5 was sold in the US (it did sell as a 1999 in other continents). In 9 months it got awfully old, largely due to the 01 MY having:

1. Angel eye design (a first for BMW at the time)
2. Rear CELIS tail lights
3. Navigation screen went from a 4x3 to a 16x9
4. Steering wheel was significantly updated
5. Front PDC became available
6. M-Audio option became available

On paper seemingly small items, but when you put them together, all of a sudden it was very distinguishable if you had a first yr model. Take a look at values even today, a dozen yrs after its intro. Ppl stay away from the 00 model yr, and favor 01-03 LCI models and prices clearly show it.

I had a feeling the F10 M5 would be coming a year earlier (one reason is the F07 5-series GT came out a yr earlier than the F10 and would have been 'weird' to update the GT which is essentially a 5-series, and not carry it over to the rest of the lineup). I am glad my patience will be rewarded.
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      10-19-2012, 03:38 PM   #65
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Yes I am sure the updates will be nice but I can't wait a year and by the time the 2014's start to arrive I will probably be looking for my toy car! On another note I am really not a fan of the 7 series LCI.. so if they are going that route all the best to them!
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      10-19-2012, 04:17 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlammedM6 View Post
Not sure who your salesman is, but in my experience with 5+ salesman at BMW, I am the one usually giving them info about new models. Unless they are car (BMW) enthusiasts and frequent a site like this one, they are usually last to find out about these changes coming.

So anything he tells you is either bs or misinformed...so take it with a grain of salt!

FYI, as per the first page. the The F10 LCI will begin deliveries in August/September of 2013. So if your planning on doing ED in March, you won't be seeing the LCI Model yet. But if I were you, I would wait a few months because if the LCI gets the improved steering wheel and other minor details...then I would say it is worth the wait.

Also, please see see this comment from above by another member here:
My advisor actually is an enthusiast, thats why I chose to go over 60 miles away to buy from him. He drives an X6 with some substantial Dinan work done to it and has had bmw's his whole life. Turns out he is a fellow Boston College Eagle as well, although class of '74 versus my class of '98. My past sales guys have all been clueless, which is another reason I was willing to travel. I actually found him through his colleague, who was on this board until he went to sell AMGs (BMW1986).

I dont plan on waiting until the summer, I want out of my C63 in March when my warranty expires and going to Europe fall isnt possible with my wife's work and i have other trips in summer. Looking at the changes, if they even happen, it seems to be minimal imo. I can live with them, but still rolling the dice that changes are not drastic.
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