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      02-20-2013, 01:56 PM   #1
RPiM5
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After 6 months of F10 M5 ownership, a revisit to the comparison of owning an E60 M5

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Dudes,

Ok so I've decided liven up this board a little by revisiting an old topic, but I'll make this short and sweet. This is a quick comparison of the goods and bads, and I am rating these in order from top to bottom, aesthetics aside of course. I have almost 8,000 miles on my F10 M5 now in only owning it for a little less than 6 months, where as I owned my E60 M5 for 3 years and put 57,000 miles on that one. This is just my take on it, others opinions will vary.


Best things about the E60 M5:
1. S85 V10 engine! (with aftermarket exhaust, there's almost no equal to the exhaust note. This is even more true if you do aftermarket headers!)
2. Smaller size of E60
3. Lighter weight of E60
4. SMG Transmission (Almost no other transmission can rattle the fillings out of your teeth like S6 mode can!)
5. Adjustable Side Bolsters
6. Active Side Bolsters
7. The option for comfort seats rather than just sport seats.

Worst things about the E60 M5:
1. S85 V10 engine! (reliability!!!)
2. Reliability of everything else on the car! (It once cost me $1,000 to replace the side view mirror because the motor on it broke! Overall I spent over $40,000 in maintenance and repairs on my old E60, including a brand new engine, and 4 clutches!)
3. Fuel consumption (I once got 6mpg on my E60!)
4. SMG Transmission (reliability!!!)
5. Oil consumption of the S85 V10 (The 10W-60 is expensive, plus it is only really available either at the dealership or online.)
6. Difficulty in getting more horsepower with mods (Unless you get a supercharger your going to spend well over $10 grand in bolt-ons just to make an extra 100hp.)


Best things about the F10 M5:
1. The S63tu V8 engine!!! (Until recently I was almost about to trade my F10 M5 back in for another E60 M5, because to me the most important thing I love about driving a fast BMW is the exhaust note. The stock exhaust sounds good and I put an RPi GT exhaust with no resonators on as soon as I got the car back from Euro Delivery. But, it still did not make me fall in love with the S63tu powerplant, the exhaust note was way too quiet for me. Both of those exhausts did not make me feel like I was driving a race car, like the feeling I always had with the E60 M5. That is until I recently got the NEW RPi GTM exhaust, that includes a FULL 100% muffler delete and is now straight piped from the downpipes to the exhaust tips! The F10 M5 has now transformed from a subtle gentlemens race car, to a full blown ROARING MONSTER!!! The cracks from the exhaust are like EXTREMELY LOUD thunderclaps or bullwhip cracks! It's INSANE! The ROAR OF THE F10 V8 IS ON PAR WITH THE E60 V10 SCREAM!!!! And I haven't even de-catted the downpipes yet!)
2. The Torque!!! (It's a sheer wall, like getting slammed by a tidal wave)
3. The horsepower! (The S63tu is WAY underrated!)
4. Engine Response! (What the hell is this turbo lag all of you non-F10 M5 owners keep talking about?! In Sport+ mode there is NO freaking lag! EVER! What do we have to do to beat this in your non-F10 M5 owners heads?!)
5. Handling! (The chassis and suspension are LIGHT YEARS ahead of the E60 M5. The F10 M5 can turn on a dime despite it's weight, the E60 can't!)
6. Michelin Pilot Super Sport Tires! (AMAZING TIRES!!! They contribute largely to the success of the handling of the such a heavy car. Also the tread life is AMAZING!! I've got almost 8,000 miles on the PSS's already and they are not even half-way worn down yet, and I drove with these same tires on the Nurburgring and do mountain drives almost every other weekend! The tires will probably last another 8 to 10 thousand miles!)
7. Bang & Olufsen Sound System (Hands down one of the best sound systems in a car I have heard in my life. It makes the driving experience that much more special when you are jamming to your favorite tunes!)
8. The technology! (The heads up display is AWESOME! And the new iDrive is SO slick and fast. The Navigatoin system has some very useful awesome features, like real time traffic updates, and I've never had problems with false navigation.)
9. The range! (I'm easily getting over 400 miles on a full tank. I once saw 465 miles on the range computer!)
10. Tunability of the engine (With charcoal filter removal, exhaust, downpipes and tune, one could theoretically easily make over 700hp to the crank).

Worst things about the F10 M5:
1. The Weight
2. The Size
3. Oil Consumption (The S63tu does consume oil almost as bad as the V10, I've already filled the engine up twice. Luckily the 5W-30 oil is way cheaper than the 10W-60, and we can pick up 5W-30 from any Autozone.)
4. Fake Induction Noise pumped through the speakers (Just get an aftermarket exhaust and you won't even care anymore!)
5. No adjustable side bolsters (Have we beat this issue to death enough yet?! Lol!)

That's it!

But like I said in my other review from a while back, neither one of these M5's is better than the other. Each is great in it's own way, and one day I would still like to go back and own a V10 again along with keeping my TTV8.

Let the shoosting, or I mean the discussion begin!
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Last edited by RPiM5; 02-21-2013 at 12:01 AM.
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      02-20-2013, 02:02 PM   #2
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Was your E60 bought used? I see you owned it but spent over $40k maintaining it, which means you were out of warranty. Are you flipping the F10 after 4 years or will you extend the warranty?
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      02-20-2013, 02:05 PM   #3
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I actually financed my F10 with the extended maint. and warranty. Figured I'd be keeping the car for at least 100k miles.
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      02-20-2013, 02:06 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Tomcat2048 View Post
I actually financed my F10 with the extended maint. and warranty. Figured I'd be keeping the car for at least 100k miles.
What was your cost? Assuming you went to 6 years/100k miles?
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      02-20-2013, 02:07 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patsc23 View Post
Was your E60 bought used? I see you owned it but spent over $40k maintaining it, which means you were out of warranty. Are you flipping the F10 after 4 years or will you extend the warranty?
Actually I paid very little out of pocket in those repairs. I had the original factory warranty for about a year and then 2 seperate extended warranties after that. If I had to pay out of pocket for any of that stuff I wouldn't be in an F10 today, that's for sure! Lol!
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      02-20-2013, 02:08 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patsc23 View Post
What was your cost? Assuming you went to 6 years/100k miles?
Right around 10k more financed to extend maintenance and warranty. And yes, extended to 100k for both.

Last edited by Tomcat2048; 02-20-2013 at 02:09 PM. Reason: Added detail.
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      02-20-2013, 03:47 PM   #7
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Thanks for your writeup, I will be driving my new M5 F10 within 3 weeks from now. I've owned 2 E60 M5's (one was stolen) and I cant wait to drive the new one and see how it is like.
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Last edited by a90; 02-20-2013 at 04:01 PM.
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      02-20-2013, 03:57 PM   #8
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Thanks for your writeup, I will be driving my new M5 F10 within 3 weeks from haw. I've owned 2 E60 M5's (one was stolen) and I cant wait to drive the new one and see how it is like.
Dude, your gonna love it! And don't forget to get an aftermarket exhaust!
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      02-20-2013, 07:55 PM   #9
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Great take on the F10!! You're making me want to do a full turbo back system LOL. Any sound clips of your beast?
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      02-20-2013, 07:57 PM   #10
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Great take on the F10!! You're making me want to do a full turbo back system LOL. Any sound clips of your beast?

Watch this!
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      02-20-2013, 09:44 PM   #11
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Number 3 on worst things about the F10 M5 is the lack of real engine sound. Inexcusable.
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      02-20-2013, 10:30 PM   #12
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Quote:
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Number 3 on worst things about the F10 M5 is the lack of real engine sound. Inexcusable.
I disagree.. stock for stock, the F10 has more burble than the E60.. The F10 is just a better built car altogether.
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      02-20-2013, 10:54 PM   #13
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Quote:
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I disagree.. stock for stock, the F10 has more burble than the E60.. The F10 is just a better built car altogether.
I actually agree with you. As I have said before, stock for stock the F10 M5 has a better exhaust note. It's just the fake induction noise that gets pumped into the cabin that most people have a beef with, and I don't blame them. Also ever since I straight-piped my M5, I'm like what fake sound through the speakers are you referring to?! I hear nothing but the exhaust now!
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      02-20-2013, 11:11 PM   #14
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Quote:
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Watch this!
HOLY COW, WANT SO BAD. That is what the F10 is supposed to sound like
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      02-20-2013, 11:23 PM   #15
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Worst thing about F10 - no adjustable side bolsters.
imho

Have we discussed that issue yet? (j/k)
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      02-21-2013, 12:01 AM   #16
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Worst thing about F10 - no adjustable side bolsters.
imho

Have we discussed that issue yet? (j/k)
Just added it, can't believe I forgot to put that on there! Lol!
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      02-21-2013, 07:48 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPiM5
Quote:
Originally Posted by SANguru View Post
I disagree.. stock for stock, the F10 has more burble than the E60.. The F10 is just a better built car altogether.
I actually agree with you. As I have said before, stock for stock the F10 M5 has a better exhaust note. It's just the fake induction noise that gets pumped into the cabin that most people have a beef with, and I don't blame them. Also ever since I straight-piped my M5, I'm like what fake sound through the speakers are you referring to?! I hear nothing but the exhaust now!
RpiM5

Where can I inquire about this exhaust you have?? Can you tell me what the cost is?

Thank you, great write up
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      02-21-2013, 11:18 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPiM5 View Post
I actually agree with you. As I have said before, stock for stock the F10 M5 has a better exhaust note. It's just the fake induction noise that gets pumped into the cabin that most people have a beef with, and I don't blame them. Also ever since I straight-piped my M5, I'm like what fake sound through the speakers are you referring to?! I hear nothing but the exhaust now!
no way! stock for stock the e60 had the better exhaust note.

were not talking about idling exhaust note here.

im talking about the sound of an engine that reving to 8400 rpm, when you feel like the car is going to lift off and fly to SPACE!


no amount of mods will make the tansmission of the f10 be as brutal as the e60. it had a madness to it. much more emotional experience.

even after owning an f10, whenever i describe to someone the "experience" of driving an M5, it will always be referring to the e60, not the f10...
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      02-21-2013, 11:46 AM   #19
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Are you guys comparing SMG vs DCT seriously? SMG is inferior in design and functionality to DCT and that clunk on gear change made me think that the tranny was about to blow up. There is no comparison in my own opinion.
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      02-21-2013, 12:12 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mainly
Quote:
Originally Posted by RPiM5 View Post
I actually agree with you. As I have said before, stock for stock the F10 M5 has a better exhaust note. It's just the fake induction noise that gets pumped into the cabin that most people have a beef with, and I don't blame them. Also ever since I straight-piped my M5, I'm like what fake sound through the speakers are you referring to?! I hear nothing but the exhaust now!
no way! stock for stock the e60 had the better exhaust note.

were not talking about idling exhaust note here.

im talking about the sound of an engine that reving to 8400 rpm, when you feel like the car is going to lift off and fly to SPACE!


no amount of mods will make the tansmission of the f10 be as brutal as the e60. it had a madness to it. much more emotional experience.

even after owning an f10, whenever i describe to someone the "experience" of driving an M5, it will always be referring to the e60, not the f10...
Why do you want to make the transmission brutal? it does nothing for shift speed. My e60 went though 3 transmissions before BMW bought it back. Revving to 8400rpm?? mine burnt a quart of oil every 400 miles.

want a brutal tranny? try driving the Aventador in corsa mode. Had a friend pass out on a ride along on a track day from hitting his head on the back of the seat. What fun is that??

Last edited by SANguru; 02-21-2013 at 02:55 PM.
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      02-21-2013, 12:40 PM   #21
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Quote:
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Number 3 on worst things about the F10 M5 is the lack of real engine sound. Inexcusable.
Have you driven a M5/M6 for an extended period?
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      02-21-2013, 01:01 PM   #22
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I think there is a creature comfort in knowing that you car is eating oil, needing service and has a loud rumbling exhaust. I like hearing both the engine and the exhaust.

So with the new exhaust, would you still trade your f body in for an e body? I did. It was just too luxurious for me. I didn't want the black paint to get scratched.
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