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      02-27-2013, 11:08 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdList View Post
Thank you. There is no malice meant at all. And this was never a secret. I just was being respectful and asking the supplier if it was ok that I advertised his modified parts before doing so. I am not being gullible, I should not have said "BMW Performance". I did not mean any reference to the "BMW Performance" line of products. They are not sold to me as such and are not factory parts. Simply a term that I used to mean that they are not typical aftermarket cheap stuff. They are in fact made by the same manufacturer, Boysen, that makes the DP for BMW. They are MODIFIED BMW custom parts, as if you were to take your cats on your E60 and modify them, just as many of us did in the past. In other words, like many companies, such as Alpina and Hartge, factory parts are used as the BASIS for modifications. This does not make them FACTORY parts. Again, my bad on terminology. I still however would most definitely use a part derived from the factory installation than an individual aftermarket fabrication. I need to correct that it is a 400 cell primary cat and no secondary cat I the DP.

Thank you for understanding that I honestly am just trying to share good information that other people might like. I really tried to be a helpful fellow board member. I understand that this apparently pisses certain people off and will no longer do so. In the end I am thrilled to have this stuff available to me and others.


Cheers.
That's all fine and no hard feelings here. It just rubs me the wrong way that in some of your posts you clearly stated "BMW Performance parts" and the OEM warranty being retained. The term "BMW Performance part" does imply it's a BMW sanctioned / approved part sold by BMW and therefore using the term will leave people with the wrong impression.
Noelle is a very reputable company and I'd love to see their parts be a success and work out for you. But at the same time please don't make it sound like these are official approved/sanctioned components by BMW.
I also think you might just have fallen into the trap by your "contact" in sometimes reading too much into their words/statements (and their premature release of pictures/information not part of the actual product) and being the enthusiastic person you are repeating it to the world. Which in turn might just cause a few eye brows to be raised
So having said all of the above we are all looking forward to your journey and hopefully great results.
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      02-27-2013, 11:16 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AGS View Post
To keep this thread on topic, I'll bring us back to the dicussion of the exhaust valves. Maybe I'm being thick here, and I'll admit I have not have a chance yet to inspect the valves myself, but I'd like to better understand the process of permanently locking the valves open as a way to enhance the sound a bit.

First, it seems from jmh and ColdList's comments you have to do two things to achieve this - disconnect and plug the vacuum line and then wire the valves open. Correct? I would just like to clarify that just wiring the valves open will not work.

Second, I would assume it's fairly straight forward to disconnect the vacuum line at the valve on the muffler, with the important part of the modification being a 100% tight seal on the vacuum line plug.

Lastly, from the comments above I also assume the valves can be wired open with the exhaust on the car.

Thanks in advance to those members knowledgable about this topic for your assistance!
Hi,
glad to be back on topic
I am not near my (stored) OEM exhaust so can't check in person but if the exhaust valve is similar to the one on the F30 the DYI from the F30 should apply
http://www.f30post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=761453
As for the vacuum line all you have to do is to unplug it from the valve and plug
it with something which seals it nicely (a golf tee does work wonders ) .
Then secure the line so it doesn't bounce around or can get loose and the plug
fall off .
On the E90 (and likely the Eisenman without the valves) the BMW Performance
exhaust had actually a little metal piece welded to it where you could plug / terminate
your vacuum line.
Oh and yes this can all be done while the exhaust is one the car and also without the
need for a lift etc (it would just make it easier to work on the car if it's on a lift)

Hth,
Jan
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      02-27-2013, 11:36 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmh View Post
Hi,
glad to be back on topic
I am not near my (stored) OEM exhaust so can't check in person but if the exhaust valve is similar to the one on the F30 the DYI from the F30 should apply
http://www.f30post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=761453
As for the vacuum line all you have to do is to unplug it from the valve and plug
it with something which seals it nicely (a golf tee does work wonders ) .
Then secure the line so it doesn't bounce around or can get loose and the plug
fall off .
On the E90 (and likely the Eisenman without the valves) the BMW Performance
exhaust had actually a little metal piece welded to it where you could plug / terminate
your vacuum line.
Oh and yes this can all be done while the exhaust is one the car and also without the
need for a lift etc (it would just make it easier to work on the car if it's on a lift)

Hth,
Jan
Thanks very much for your thorough reply. Hopefully I'll have the time this weekend to some time under the car and give it a try. I'll report back the results for others interested in this mod.
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      02-27-2013, 02:08 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timberwolf View Post
Sounds like we need a DIY sticky of how to wire the valve open as they have on the N54 forums.

Coldlist, you seem to get quite a bit of anxiety coming to this forum lol. Was it you that people questioned the car collection? Man, this should be a place you come to, to escape your troubles, not find more!
Thanks for clarifying! We aren't out to get you! We are just information hungry car guys!
lol! No kidding :-) I have always gotten so much "relief" out of hanging out in forums. For whatever reason, I let it bend me out of shape. My apologies. Not trying to act like an a**. My last long post was actually meant to come off as "peace" to JMH but it was apparently interpreted incorrectly. My bad for the wording. Could have been written better. And in the end I was very wrong for saying BMW Performance...totally not making the connection to "BMW Performance"-duh
:-(

Never actually got into a heated thing like this before mentioning stuff like this. Usually just a cheerleader for other's cars and projects and try not to criticize anyone's cars or mods. Sorry for the nutcase attitude.

Last edited by ColdList; 02-27-2013 at 02:28 PM.
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      02-27-2013, 02:10 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AGS View Post
Thanks very much for your thorough reply. Hopefully I'll have the time this weekend to some time under the car and give it a try. I'll report back the results for others interested in this mod.
I would probably add a little RTV sealant around the joint between your plug and your line. You can get ti for $5 at any automotive store. IT creates a rubber gasket and eliminates any chance of leaks. Mine really performed terribly because of a leak.
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      02-27-2013, 02:20 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmh View Post
That's all fine and no hard feelings here. It just rubs me the wrong way that in some of your posts you clearly stated "BMW Performance parts" and the OEM warranty being retained. The term "BMW Performance part" does imply it's a BMW sanctioned / approved part sold by BMW and therefore using the term will leave people with the wrong impression.
Noelle is a very reputable company and I'd love to see their parts be a success and work out for you. But at the same time please don't make it sound like these are official approved/sanctioned components by BMW.
I also think you might just have fallen into the trap by your "contact" in sometimes reading too much into their words/statements (and their premature release of pictures/information not part of the actual product) and being the enthusiastic person you are repeating it to the world. Which in turn might just cause a few eye brows to be raised
So having said all of the above we are all looking forward to your journey and hopefully great results.
Yep, all good here too. No hard feelings. My bad on terminology-no question. Was not my intent to deceive. Frankly, never really gave thought to "BMW Performance", the actual BMW stuff. Like I said, just should have thought of a better term for differentiating. Honestly, very excited about the products. Sort of funny the whole discussion. I have never not had "fun" on a forum before :-) This is really good stuff. I wanted people to know about it and be able to access it. I am very confident in the quality and it being all that is promised. They have been extremely good to me.

Thanks for the response. I appreciate it.

P.S. Can you do me a favor and point me to where I commented about not voiding warranty? I definitely CANNOT say that. I thought I had said that I wasn't concerned (I don't keep them long enough for there to usually be much impact either way) and that I did not know if warranty would be voided. Ugh...searching for this stuff and modifying. I need to edit that post if I did in fact say that. Thanks again.

Last edited by ColdList; 02-27-2013 at 02:27 PM.
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      02-27-2013, 02:28 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdList View Post
Never actually got into a heated thing like this before mentioning stuff like this. Usually just a cheerleader for other's cars and projects and try not to criticize anyone's cars or mods. Sorry for the nutcase attitude.
You're trying alot of different stuff on your car, and I for one appreciate the info you're passing along.

And we all BS, misstate or exaggerate the truth once in a while. I once did that myself back in '93 but have been 100% honest and accurate ever since.
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      02-27-2013, 02:40 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisratz View Post
You're trying alot of different stuff on your car, and I for one appreciate the info you're passing along.

And we all BS, misstate or exaggerate the truth once in a while. I once did that myself back in '93 but have been 100% honest and accurate ever since.

Thanks. I appreciate that. Yep. Not first time the old "foot in mouth" thing happened.

I go a little nuts when it comes to my cars. If my HREs don't get here soon I'm gonna flip!-lol
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      02-27-2013, 04:16 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdList View Post
I would probably add a little RTV sealant around the joint between your plug and your line. You can get ti for $5 at any automotive store. IT creates a rubber gasket and eliminates any chance of leaks. Mine really performed terribly because of a leak.
Thanks. I'll pick some up or otherwise make sure I have a tight seal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdList View Post
Thanks. I appreciate that. Yep. Not first time the old "foot in mouth" thing happened.
Happens to the best of us from time to time ... there's nothing quite like the taste of shoe leather!
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      03-02-2013, 05:25 PM   #32
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I spent some time playing around with the exhaust valves today. First I did a visual inspection - the only thing leading to the actuator that controls the valve is the vacuum line. I had read some comments in this and other threads that the valves open when the cats warm up or Sport+ mode is selected on the throttle control. I do not think either of these is correct since there is no electronic control of the valves - it appears as if the valves can only be opened by sufficient pressure built up in the vacuum line. From moving them by hand I can tell you it's a fairly stiff spring, so a lot of pressure will be necessary - likely once the engine is above something in the 5,000 to 6,000 RPM range. I looked at a schematic of the exhaust on realOEM.com and there is an in-line electronic value farther up the vacuum tube which may control whether or not the exhaust valve is "active" based on certain settings or other conditions, but I do not think it can actually control the valve itself.

Next I started up the car an opened and closed the valves by hand. There is a slight increase / improvement in sound at idle with the valves open, but nothing dramatic. The exhaust seems to have a slightly deeper tone with the valves open.

The last thing I did was temporarily lock the valves open using some heavy duty twist ties and went for a short drive. As with my observation at idle, there is a slight increase in the sound level and a slightly deeper tone to the exhaust - it is not dramatically louder driving with the valves locked open. Another important lesson learned - for my experiment I did not touch the vacuum lines and there was no impact to performance. It seems as long as the vacuum lines are still connected to the actuator, back pressure is maintained and there is no loss in power as ColdList experienced when his exhaust installed just left the vacuum lines unplugged. The twist ties I used for this test were not appropriate to leave on permanently, so my next step will be getting the proper materials to lock the valves open on a long-term basis.
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      03-02-2013, 05:48 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AGS View Post
I spent some time playing around with the exhaust valves today. First I did a visual inspection - the only thing leading to the actuator that controls the valve is the vacuum line. I had read some comments in this and other threads that the valves open when the cats warm up or Sport+ mode is selected on the throttle control. I do not think either of these is correct since there is no electronic control of the valves - it appears as if the valves can only be opened by sufficient pressure built up in the vacuum line. From moving them by hand I can tell you it's a fairly stiff spring, so a lot of pressure will be necessary - likely once the engine is above something in the 5,000 to 6,000 RPM range. I looked at a schematic of the exhaust on realOEM.com and there is an in-line electronic value farther up the vacuum tube which may control whether or not the exhaust valve is "active" based on certain settings or other conditions, but I do not think it can actually control the valve itself.

Next I started up the car an opened and closed the valves by hand. There is a slight increase / improvement in sound at idle with the valves open, but nothing dramatic. The exhaust seems to have a slightly deeper tone with the valves open.

The last thing I did was temporarily lock the valves open using some heavy duty twist ties and went for a short drive. As with my observation at idle, there is a slight increase in the sound level and a slightly deeper tone to the exhaust - it is not dramatically louder driving with the valves locked open. Another important lesson learned - for my experiment I did not touch the vacuum lines and there was no impact to performance. It seems as long as the vacuum lines are still connected to the actuator, back pressure is maintained and there is no loss in power as ColdList experienced when his exhaust installed just left the vacuum lines unplugged. The twist ties I used for this test were not appropriate to leave on permanently, so my next step will be getting the proper materials to lock the valves open on a long-term basis.
Duh...you know what? I remembered just now that my lines were plugged for the Eisenmann exhaust. When we put the OEM exhaust on and wired the valves open we did reinstall the vacuum lines. My experience was exactly the same as yours. A little louder and deeper but only slightly.
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      03-03-2013, 08:08 AM   #34
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I've done the same on my M5, It's not real loud but the blip during downshift is much more pronounced now.
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      03-03-2013, 05:36 PM   #35
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I once did that myself back in '93 but have been 100% honest and accurate ever since.


priceless
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      03-03-2013, 06:00 PM   #36
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My local shop used a pop rivet to hold the valves open. It did give the car a bassier idle and a fraction more low rev noise. After a couple of months I got the rivets removed. The exhaust note got on my nerves and there wasn't enough improvement in the overall sound to make it worthwhile.
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      03-03-2013, 06:52 PM   #37
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priceless
...until he said that! lol!
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      03-04-2013, 03:58 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AGS View Post
I spent some time playing around with the exhaust valves today. First I did a visual inspection - the only thing leading to the actuator that controls the valve is the vacuum line. I had read some comments in this and other threads that the valves open when the cats warm up or Sport+ mode is selected on the throttle control. I do not think either of these is correct since there is no electronic control of the valves - it appears as if the valves can only be opened by sufficient pressure built up in the vacuum line. From moving them by hand I can tell you it's a fairly stiff spring, so a lot of pressure will be necessary - likely once the engine is above something in the 5,000 to 6,000 RPM range. I looked at a schematic of the exhaust on realOEM.com and there is an in-line electronic value farther up the vacuum tube which may control whether or not the exhaust valve is "active" based on certain settings or other conditions, but I do not think it can actually control the valve itself.

Next I started up the car an opened and closed the valves by hand. There is a slight increase / improvement in sound at idle with the valves open, but nothing dramatic. The exhaust seems to have a slightly deeper tone with the valves open.

The last thing I did was temporarily lock the valves open using some heavy duty twist ties and went for a short drive. As with my observation at idle, there is a slight increase in the sound level and a slightly deeper tone to the exhaust - it is not dramatically louder driving with the valves locked open. Another important lesson learned - for my experiment I did not touch the vacuum lines and there was no impact to performance. It seems as long as the vacuum lines are still connected to the actuator, back pressure is maintained and there is no loss in power as ColdList experienced when his exhaust installed just left the vacuum lines unplugged. The twist ties I used for this test were not appropriate to leave on permanently, so my next step will be getting the proper materials to lock the valves open on a long-term basis.
Good information thanks, was there a lot of pressure needed to "pull these sprung flaps to the open position"?.
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      03-04-2013, 08:10 AM   #39
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Good information thanks, was there a lot of pressure needed to "pull these sprung flaps to the open position"?.
Yes, I was surprised at how much pressure was necessary to open them.
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      03-05-2013, 11:33 PM   #40
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did this today, golf tees in the vacuum lines with sealant recommended above and then aluminum wire to secure valves open. took about 30 minutes in total and was a little underwhelming, hardly noticeable at all.. my gallardo has a very noticeable change when exhaust valves opened was hoping for something similar.
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