Cadillac CT4 and CT5 Blackwing

[RM7]

Yeah, people think their 3 series BMW is cnced from a block of solid aluminum, covered in goat gonad leather and inlaid with diamonds and rubies.

[swanson]

Originally Posted by antzcrashing

Pretty sure the interior just plain sucks

Really? Please tell us about your awesome 3 series, excuse me, 4 series interior.

[antzcrashing]

Originally Posted by swanson

Really? Please tell us about your awesome 3 series, excuse me, 4 series interior.

It's fucking awesome.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by antzcrashing

So like, were you waiting on that bc you realize that the interior actually does suck?

No, waiting because that's the standard BMW fanboy response. Some manufacturer builds a car with better performance than a BMW and... "Yeah, but the interior sucks."

Shows up in a thread like this every time...

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

No, waiting because that's the standard BMW fanboy response. Some manufacturer builds a car with better performance than a BMW and... "Yeah, but the interior sucks."

Shows up in a thread like this every time...

I'd also add this one always shows up, "but its not as reliable"

[antzcrashing]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

No, waiting because that's the standard BMW fanboy response. Some manufacturer builds a car with better performance than a BMW and... "Yeah, but the interior sucks."

Shows up in a thread like this every time...

Ok, so you are suggesting

A) these Cadillacs have interiors that are comparable to BMW M3/M4 in quality and style

Or

B) we should accept a subpar interior because the Caddy will be superior to the M in other ways.

C) no one should ever mention that pro's of bmw cars bc then they are fanboys

Just trying to understand your angle

[bkfastwagon]

Imagine if BMW decided to make 660hp supercharged V8 rwd M5 with MT. It would be an instant collectible, and hailed as the best M5 since e39. Somehow Cadillac is the driver's car, and BMW is the luxury one with nice interior. What a world we live in

[Red Bread]

If the Blackwings use the full aniline leather Cadillac uses in the Escalade, it's a level of quality that would confuse any BMW buyer used to that awful waxed leather. We haven't had a BMW since the F30, but that was a comically crappy interior.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

If the Blackwings use the full aniline leather Cadillac uses in the Escalade, it's a level of quality that would confuse any BMW buyer used to that awful waxed leather. We haven't had a BMW since the F30, but that was a comically crappy interior.

Looks like its an option.

I personally think the interior comments are over-blown. People are acting like its a 90's Kia/Hyundai. Will there maybe be a bit more plastic? Maybe. Is it a huge deal? No. If anything people should be happy they got rid of the infuriating CUE system, that was the last gen's worst feature.

[heavyD^2]

The interiors look more Buick than actual luxury car but still miles ahead of the outgoing models. Cadillac just can't compare to any German or even Japanese vehicle on interior. I'm not sure why anyone would even debate that.

[c1pher]

I almost bought a CTS VSport. The V series cars are very nice driving vehicles now. I love the exterior looks. There are a few shortcuts on the interior with some plastic and GM parts bin stuff, which is really the only letdown. However, anyone considering buying these new, I’d wait for them to show up used. V series cars depreciate just as bad as other Cadillacs and Fiats.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by antzcrashing

It's fucking awesome.

Really? It looks like the interior on my brother's old E90. Big ole huge rubberized airbag thing in the middle of the wheel, plastic bits on the wheel (looks like a giant bus-wheel from here), plastic trim at the vents, the switches to the left of the wheel, oh, did I mention that wheel? The plastic around the gear-shifter, left and forward of the little burnished aluminum bit. The plastic on the tunnel.

I mean really, if you think that's perfection, then the Cadillac will have easily bested it.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by antzcrashing

Ok, so you are suggesting

A) these Cadillacs have interiors that are comparable to BMW M3/M4 in quality and style

Or

B) we should accept a subpar interior because the Caddy will be superior to the M in other ways.

C) no one should ever mention that pro's of bmw cars bc then they are fanboys

Just trying to understand your angle

It used to be that BMW interiors were sparse and to-the-point of assisting in the activity, should I dare say enhancing the "art" of driving. So my angle with any sports sedan is the interior should enhance the activity and art of driving. That means comfortable, supporting seats, good sightlines, simple and informative gauges, and ergonomic controls.

The previous gen ATS (only gen - LOL) arrived at the near introduction of the F30. I drove both cars extensively. The ATS was heads above the F30 in terms of being a (ultimate) driving machine. When I espoused the driving dynamics of the ATS on this forum 8 years ago, most of the feedback was (mimicking the auto mags), "Yeah, but the interior sucks". I didn't find the ATS interior any better nor any worse than the F30 for the purpose of driving the car very well. Of course, it was styled differently, used different materials, and the Cadillac CUE was a touch screen-based system when it is obvious a stationary mouse user interface is a much better solution for a moving vehicle. But I find any type of screen-based user interface pointless in an automobile. I like to drive and not scroll through my phone, even if it is stuck in the dashboard. The magazines even tried to convince readers the ATS windows were too small, even after they originally said from their years-earlier first assessments that the sightlines out of the car were good.

What was better than the F30 was the ATS chassis, brakes, steering, and dynamics. So if one is a Roundel Hound and doesn't really give a shit about driving dynamics and prefers driving an iPhone, then the BMW wins for you. If you care about driving dynamics, then an ATS was the winner. I'm sure the same is still the case with the current line up between BMW and Cadillac. But surely the interior of the Cadillac, without even physically experiencing it, "sucks".

Based on my idea for the function of the interior, the E30 was the best car interior I've experienced. Simple, attractive, driver oriented, and effective at interfacing with the chassis. "Form follows function"

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

Yeah, people think their 3 series BMW is cnced from a block of solid aluminum, covered in goat gonad leather and inlaid with diamonds and rubies.

Sans the rubies and diamonds, my E86 Z4 is pretty much as described above.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by c1pher

I almost bought a CTS VSport. The V series cars are very nice driving vehicles now. I love the exterior looks. There are a few shortcuts on the interior with some plastic and GM parts bin stuff, which is really the only letdown. However, anyone considering buying these new, I'd wait for them to show up used. V series cars depreciate just as bad as other Cadillacs and Fiats.

I actually think they're holding value better. A quick look at Autotrader for Gen 3 CTS-V's (V8, not V-Sports) from 2016+ shows pretty high prices even with higher milage, they seem to be holding steady, and these cars were also less expensive than the M5 by a fair margin when released. They don't seem to drop as much as a typical E63 or M5.

[antzcrashing]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

It used to be that BMW interiors were sparse and to-the-point of assisting in the activity, should I dare say enhancing the "art" of driving. So my angle with any sports sedan is the interior should enhance the activity and art of driving. That means comfortable, supporting seats, good sightlines, simple and informative gauges, and ergonomic controls.

The previous gen ATS (only gen - LOL) arrived at the near introduction of the F30. I drove both cars extensively. The ATS was heads above the F30 in terms of being a (ultimate) driving machine. When I espoused the driving dynamics of the ATS on this forum 8 years ago, most of the feedback was (mimicking the auto mags), "Yeah, but the interior sucks". I didn't find the ATS interior any better nor any worse than the F30 for the purpose of driving the car very well. Of course, it was styled differently, used different materials, and the Cadillac CUE was a touch screen-based system when it is obvious a stationary mouse user interface is a much better solution for a moving vehicle. But I find any type of screen-based user interface pointless in an automobile. I like to drive and not scroll through my phone, even if it is stuck in the dashboard. The magazines even tried to convince readers the ATS windows were too small, even after they originally said from their years-earlier first assessments that the sightlines out of the car were good.

What was better than the F30 was the ATS chassis, brakes, steering, and dynamics. So if one is a Roundel Hound and doesn't really give a shit about driving dynamics and prefers driving an iPhone, then the BMW wins for you. If you care about driving dynamics, then an ATS was the winner. I'm sure the same is still the case with the current line up between BMW and Cadillac. But surely the interior of the Cadillac, without even physically experiencing it, "sucks".

Based on my idea for the function of the interior, the E30 was the best car interior I've experienced. Simple, attractive, driver oriented, and effective at interfacing with the chassis. "Form follows function"

I follow your logic. However, despite you assuming that I have no experience with cadillac nor with the ATS line, a buddy of mine bought that car, he was in his thirties, not old, I was in my twenties. I liked the exterior of the car, and the performance seemed great although I never drove it. I thought the interior was cool, unique, different. But the same perception as you I hated the VUE touchscreen, and so did he. This new blackwing has the same touchscreen in a package that just looks cheap, the UI looks dated, and that is before fingerprints are riddled all over it. Further, the manual transmission version (the bread and butter) forgoes the spinwheel navigation option ie you have to touch the screen. Further, the interior has those circlar shaped wiper and turn signal knobs, the same ugly and cheap design from chevy aveo's that you get on your vacation rental (when you are an up-and-coming). So for these reasons, the interior sucks. I will not withhold my opinion on an online opinion forum just bc it is the unpopular one to you and others. Cadillac will not be on my cross-shopping list until they fix their interiors. If you or someone else likes the Caddy interior (maybe you dont care about the things I care about). Great, buy it. And no, this doesn't mean I buy cars just for interior and don't care about performance. Last I checked, BMW still makes the best performing luxury car for the money.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by antzcrashing

I follow your logic. However, despite you assuming that I have no experience with cadillac nor with the ATS line, a buddy of mine bought that car, he was in his thirties, not old, I was in my twenties. I liked the exterior of the car, and the performance seemed great although I never drove it. I thought the interior was cool, unique, different. But the same perception as you I hated the VUE touchscreen, and so did he. This new blackwing has the same touchscreen in a package that just looks cheap, the UI looks dated, and that is before fingerprints are riddled all over it. Further, the manual transmission version (the bread and butter) forgoes the spinwheel navigation option ie you have to touch the screen. Further, the interior has those circlar shaped wiper and turn signal knobs, the same ugly and cheap design from chevy aveo's that you get on your vacation rental (when you are an up-and-coming). So for these reasons, the interior sucks. I will not withhold my opinion on an online opinion forum just bc it is the unpopular one to you and others. Cadillac will not be on my cross-shopping list until they fix their interiors. If you or someone else likes the Caddy interior (maybe you dont care about the things I care about). Great, buy it. And no, this doesn't mean I buy cars just for interior and don't care about performance. Last I checked, BMW still makes the best performing luxury car for the money.

Like I said, the E30 interior is the best layout I've come across. BMWs wiper control and cruise control stalks are the best in the business IMO. Why BMW abandoned the cruise stalk on the E46 I'll never understand. But each manufacturer has their own interior design theme. I have a GM product, the wiper and cruise controls are different, but still functional.

My Z4 has the extended leather option (I bought it used), which is nice as shit, but I've been in a few others without extended leather and found them good enough. The menu buttons on E85/86 totally suck regardless. I look for function for driving as my main criteria. Material finish isn't that important to me.

[supra93]

https://www.autoblog.com/2021/02/03/...-run-sold-out/

[c1pher]

Originally Posted by stein_325i

I actually think they're holding value better. A quick look at Autotrader for Gen 3 CTS-V's (V8, not V-Sports) from 2016+ shows pretty high prices even with higher milage, they seem to be holding steady, and these cars were also less expensive than the M5 by a fair margin when released. They don't seem to drop as much as a typical E63 or M5.

Interesting. Not that I will buy one now but maybe revisit the next time I decide to buy.

[GERMAN M3]

Originally Posted by stein_325i

I actually think they're holding value better. A quick look at Autotrader for Gen 3 CTS-V's (V8, not V-Sports) from 2016+ shows pretty high prices even with higher milage, they seem to be holding steady, and these cars were also less expensive than the M5 by a fair margin when released. They don't seem to drop as much as a typical E63 or M5.

Check out this 2012 CTS V wagon!


http://atcm.co/S2PVDP/2243acbd

I'd say they're holding their value!
Even the higher mileage ones are still fetching prices in the low to mid 40's.

The cheapest 2016 + V I found within 500 miles of me was a 2016 going for 50k with 74,000 miles on the clock. The most expensive was a 2018 with 8,000 miles on the odometer for 96k.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by GERMAN M3

Check out this 2012 CTS V wagon!

I thought you would like this Used 2012 Cadillac CTS for $59,995 on Autotrader

http://atcm.co/S2PVDP/2243acbd

I'd say they are holding there value!

The V-Wagons are definitely a future classic. A modern V8, RWD, Manual Wagon is pretty much a very rare breed of car. I've followed some over the years on BaT and other sites and they go for a lot of money. A 12k-mile example sold for $90k last year!

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/20...ts-v-wagon-26/

[GERMAN M3]

Originally Posted by stein_325i

The V-Wagons are definitely a future classic. A modern V8, RWD, Manual Wagon is pretty much a very rare breed of car. I've followed some over the years on BaT and other sites and they go for a lot of money. A 12k-mile example sold for $90k last year!

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/20...ts-v-wagon-26/

Wow, have always loved the V Wagons! Great looking vehicle with plenty of power.....and let's not forget 0-60 times between 3.8 to 4.1 seconds, especially since IT'S SO IMPORTANT!! :