BMW M5, M6 and 335i Lap Times from Annual Car and Driver Lightning Lap 2013 @ VIR

RingMeister01 · 12-28-2012, 03:59 PM

Wow. BMW's at the bottom of every group? Very impressed with the Audi's and E90 M3 time. I dont think this a reputable test. It was done with different drivers over different days, where as say "SportAuto" takes timed group test all on the same day, with the same driver and the cars have the same tires. This test doesnt mean much.

techwhiz · 12-28-2012, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by antzcrashing

e90 335 did it in 3:10? Source?

51 3:10.5 BMW 335i COUPE LL2 8/07
From http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=470751

Zeeman · 12-28-2012, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ironring Racing

This is just getting old.

BMW continues to harvest it's driving focused reputation while releasing products that are slower and softer; with the goal not of producing the Ultimate Driving Machine, but of capturing market share by appealing to the middle/average consumer.

It results in a short term sales boost, until your reputation falters and people realize you're the new Toyota.

F30 335i 3 SECONDS slower than the E90 gen.
F30 335i just 0.7sec ahead of the Hyundai Genesis?
M5 & M6 get smoked by a Chevy, the SS 1LE, much less the ZL1? (Congrats to the Bow Tie crowd btw, wow!)
M5 now the HEAVIEST of the competition (C63 & S6-and it's AWD!!)!!?

It's sad to watch this company try to win the race to average.

Well said.

FogCityM3 · 12-28-2012, 04:07 PM

Good point, that's just plain pathetic. Given the F30 forms the basis for the F80 chassis, maybe the F80 won't be the stellar outperformer that everyone is expecting unless weight goes way down. When Car & Driver said they prefer the handling dynamics for the E90 generation and had they staged a comparo with the F30 they thought the E90 would win--everyone poo-pood on C&D for being biased, in the pockets of Audi, BMW doesn't spend as much ad $$s anymore among other conspiracy theories. The beauty of testing and measuring results is that numbers don't lie.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ironring Racing

F30 335i 3 SECONDS slower than the E90 gen.

FogCityM3 · 12-28-2012, 04:11 PM

That was not a SportAuto "official time" and a common misconception. Here's the article, pg 7

http://s1244.beta.photobucket.com/us..._f104.jpg.html

Quote:

Originally Posted by smashhell

The F10 M5 did the Nurburgring in 7:55

kpjo4 · 12-28-2012, 04:17 PM

I thought the f30 chassis was superior to the e90.

FogCityM3 · 12-28-2012, 04:22 PM

It is in terms of stiffness (forget the actual % improvement in stiffness according to BMW) and ride quality (due more to size), but think that's pretty much it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kpjo4

I thought the f30 chassis was superior to the e90.

Bluesummer · 12-28-2012, 04:23 PM

I'm not too sure what to take out of this testing.... F30 335 is a pos since it barely beats a Hyndai and M5 is one hell of a car on the track?

kpjo4 · 12-28-2012, 04:30 PM

as in stiffness do you mean chassis rigidness?

FogCityM3 · 12-28-2012, 04:39 PM

yes, sorry for poor terminology

Quote:

Originally Posted by kpjo4

as in stiffness do you mean chassis rigidness?

kpjo4 · 12-28-2012, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mhabs

yes, sorry for poor terminology

so pretty much the f30 is a superior chassis but from the factory the e90 335i is faster than the f30 335i? why the heck would they do that?

TK-421 · 12-28-2012, 04:52 PM

Lol you act so surprised. The M division is dead and, like someone said above, BMW is the new Toyota. Take me back 10-15 years ago to the E39 M5 and the CSL.

kpjo4 · 12-28-2012, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TK-421

Lol you act so surprised. The M division is dead and, like someone said above, BMW is the new Toyota. Take me back 10-15 years ago to the E39 M5 and the CSL.

+1

AndreyATC · 12-28-2012, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ucla95

Fair point, but I still would take an M5 over an S6. Now to get the RS6 in America...

S6 is not M5's competitor
It is something between 550 and M5
I'm driving one right now (my X6M drowned in the storm) and it's a hell of a car
S6 is now light, nimble, well ballanced and has a one crazy powertrain for its size

Itgb · 12-28-2012, 04:58 PM

The 335i looks like a Sport Line w/non-staggered crappy tires. I'm sure if it had been an M-Sport w/staggered tires it would have been very even with the E92 335i time.

Nang Vann · 12-28-2012, 05:05 PM

Good vid,

BMW BRAD · 12-28-2012, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ironring Racing

This is just getting old.

BMW continues to harvest it's driving focused reputation while releasing products that are slower and softer; with the goal not of producing the Ultimate Driving Machine, but of capturing market share by appealing to the middle/average consumer.

It results in a short term sales boost, until your reputation falters and people realize you're the new Toyota.

F30 335i 3 SECONDS slower than the E90 gen.
F30 335i just 0.7sec ahead of the Hyundai Genesis?
M5 & M6 get smoked by a Chevy, the SS 1LE, much less the ZL1? (Congrats to the Bow Tie crowd btw, wow!)
M5 now the HEAVIEST of the competition (C63 & S6-and it's AWD!!)!!?

It's sad to watch this company try to win the race to average.

^^^^^ Very well put, Very true, Very sad.......

^^^^^

daydaychu · 12-28-2012, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ironring Racing

Quote:

Originally Posted by antzcrashing

e90 335 did it in 3:10? Source?

3:10.5 First post graphic

Quote:

Originally Posted by freeman727

why? i guess some love their boats

some love their tight driving machine.

Yeah, seriously, how do you build an M5 heavier than an S6, which has AWD? Engines are almost identical in size, M5 4.4L TT V8, S6 4.0L TT V8, so you can't put the blame there. It's just fat, pure and simple.

Because unlike Audi has VW behind it. it was too expensive for BMW to use aluminium structure. That's why most new Audis are relatively lighter than new BMWs. Lets hope the next gen of BMW will be lighter as they will apply a lot more of their carbon fibre tech to most of their models, start with the next 7!

FogCityM3 · 12-28-2012, 05:14 PM

Good question. The E46 chassis was less rigid vs the E90, but had excellent driving dynamics for its time (some claim superior to the E9x and F30). The size of the car/proportions, agility, tradeoffs (stiffer suspension vs ride quality), road feel (electric steering vs hydraulic), how confidence inspiring is the vehicle, etc all come into play. BMW choose to go larger/more comfortable/more insulated feel vs smaller/more agile, harder suspension, feeling the road, etc with essentially similar engine tech as prior gen. They're responding to what they perceive the general public to want (which is different from what harder core drivers want). Chassis rigidity is only one component of the total driving package. Cadillac is designing the ATS actually used the E46 driving dynamics as the benchmark for how the car is supposed to feel...and guess what happens, several reviews are lauding the Caddy as a worthy driver's car (looks aside).

Quote:

Originally Posted by kpjo4

so pretty much the f30 is a superior chassis but from the factory the e90 335i is faster than the f30 335i? why the heck would they do that?

TunedM2C · 12-28-2012, 05:17 PM

And the next rag will come out with their own test with completely opposite outcomes.

RingMeister01 · 12-28-2012, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuned1M

And the next rag will come out with their own test with completely opposite outcomes.

+1

antzcrashing · 12-28-2012, 05:30 PM

[QUOTE=Ironring Racing]

Quote:

Originally Posted by antzcrashing

e90 335 did it in 3:10? Source?

3:10.5 First post graphic

But that is 335 coupe v sedan not a fair comparo

12-28-2012, 03:59 PM	#23
RingMeister01 Croatian 892 Rep 3,613 Posts Drives: PORSCHE Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: NYC iTrader: (0) Garage List '18 Panamera Turbo [0.00] '17 991.2 Carrera G ... [0.00]	Wow. BMW's at the bottom of every group? Very impressed with the Audi's and E90 M3 time. I dont think this a reputable test. It was done with different drivers over different days, where as say "SportAuto" takes timed group test all on the same day, with the same driver and the cars have the same tires. This test doesnt mean much.
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12-28-2012, 04:17 PM	#28
kpjo4 Jo Who? JOYU! 32 Rep 168 Posts Drives: 2010 335ic Crimson Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Centex iTrader: (1)	I thought the f30 chassis was superior to the e90.
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12-28-2012, 04:23 PM	#30
Bluesummer Lieutenant General 590 Rep 15,816 Posts Drives: slower than Ayrton Senna Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: SoCal iTrader: (15) Garage List 2017 BMW X5M [0.00] 2015 M4 [0.00] 2011 E82 135 [0.00] 2011 M3 [0.00] 2007 335 [0.00]	I'm not too sure what to take out of this testing.... F30 335 is a pos since it barely beats a Hyndai and M5 is one hell of a car on the track? __________________ IG:d.violet.m3
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12-28-2012, 04:30 PM	#31
kpjo4 Jo Who? JOYU! 32 Rep 168 Posts Drives: 2010 335ic Crimson Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Centex iTrader: (1)	as in stiffness do you mean chassis rigidness?
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12-28-2012, 04:52 PM	#34
TK-421 Registered Sex Offender 595 Rep 4,757 Posts Drives: E46 M3 \| 1JZ S13 Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Tampa, FL iTrader: (0)	Lol you act so surprised. The M division is dead and, like someone said above, BMW is the new Toyota. Take me back 10-15 years ago to the E39 M5 and the CSL. __________________ Stop putting stuff like painted reflectors and premium package in your signature. You're embarrassing.
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12-28-2012, 04:58 PM	#37
Itgb Second Lieutenant 83 Rep 246 Posts Drives: PS2 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: San Diego iTrader: (1)	The 335i looks like a Sport Line w/non-staggered crappy tires. I'm sure if it had been an M-Sport w/staggered tires it would have been very even with the E92 335i time. __________________ 991.2 C2S \| Polestar 2 \| PAST: E91 328i, B8 A4 Avant, MK7 GTI, W211 E55, E46 M3, W201 190E 2.3-16
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12-28-2012, 05:05 PM	#38
Nang Vann Lieutenant Colonel 27 Rep 1,513 Posts Drives: E46 M3, R35 GT-R Join Date: May 2011 Location: Australia iTrader: (0)	Good vid, __________________ Moving on up!
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12-28-2012, 05:17 PM	#42
TunedM2C Brigadier General 840 Rep 4,190 Posts Drives: 2016 LBB M2 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Earth iTrader: (2)	And the next rag will come out with their own test with completely opposite outcomes.
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