Winter Wheels / Tires Set up for F10 M5

[deathray]

Originally Posted by bobblehead

Make sure you have it test fitted before mounting the winter tires.

My Forgeline wheels came in from the States today and I went to have one front wheel test fitted ... guess what, the front brake caliper is too big and rubbing the wheel, even though I gave them the exact spec (offset & width) as the 345M wheel. Now, the wheel shop will have to contact Forgeline Monday to get them to remake another set or I will have to go back to the drawing board and winter time is fast approaching.

I have never encountered so much trouble buying a set of aftermarket wheels before. When I looked at Tirerack, everything is 20" and limited choices of winter tires available too.

That scares the crap out of me. Its just crazy that they dont fit when made to stock size! That must mean the clearance on the stock 19's was nearly non-existant. My winter tires are coming pre-mounted because it worked out way cheaper for me that way.

How bad was the rub; how much more clearance did it need? Did you measure the wheels to see if they were, in fact, made to the right spec? Have you by chance figured out the minimum brake clearance requirement (I think Im going to try to talk to the master tech at my shop and figure that out tomorrow)?

If they were machined right, the only thing I can think of off hand is the hub diameter. Are the forgeline's hub-centric? As far as I know the correct center bore for the F10 M5 is 72.56mm. My master tech told me that the car needs hub-centric wheels to be properly stable and Ive heard from other places that some cars that demand hub centric wheels dont always center correctly off of just the nuts. If that is the issue, you might be able to get a quick fix with some spacers.

Keep us posted, Ill have them do a trial fit on my set when they come in and let you know if it works (I think the ship date is Sept 19 so I should get them a week or so later).

Good Luck.

[deathray]

Originally Posted by bobblehead

Make sure you have it test fitted before mounting the winter tires.

My Forgeline wheels came in from the States today and I went to have one front wheel test fitted ... guess what, the front brake caliper is too big and rubbing the wheel, even though I gave them the exact spec (offset & width) as the 345M wheel. Now, the wheel shop will have to contact Forgeline Monday to get them to remake another set or I will have to go back to the drawing board and winter time is fast approaching.

I have never encountered so much trouble buying a set of aftermarket wheels before. When I looked at Tirerack, everything is 20" and limited choices of winter tires available too.

Are the wheels rubbing on the spoke or the barrel? I was just out feeling around the 20"s and there is not a lot of room in either place.

[uhn2000]

Originally Posted by M52013UDM

Just went on the Tirerack site - according to the configurator...

$3,176.00 - total for (4) 20x9.5 O.Z. Canyon ST Matte Graphite Silver, (4) 255/35R20 XL Bridgestone Blizzak LM-60 Blackwall, Mounted/Balanced and including (4) 433MHz Tire Pressure Sensor.

Looks - not so bad for winter shoes, just need to confirm fit!!!

Yes this is what I was looking at today - any ideas on confirming fit? Guessing that the nice thing about TireRack is you know that if they don't fit they will take them back??

Thanks

Joe

[bobblehead]

The tech @ the shop did the fitting himself and he said the current inner barrel is actually touching the caliper (not the spokes), thus there is no way for the wheel to rotate freely, meaning it is at least 10mm (need a min of 5mm cushion gap between the barrel & brake caliper)from freeing it. He took the measurement himself and he will speak to the wheel manuf (Forgeline) on Monday morning to see if they can re-design/re-shape the contour of the barrel enough to make it structurally safe at the same time. I will know the answer by mid to end of this week. If not possible, I will get my full payment back, as I stipulated on my order that "subject to test fitting and final brake clearance of the wheels". By the way, the wheel shop does lots of Porsche & BMW & Audi, it has a 2-car Porsche racing team that runs in weekend competition, therefore, the tech guy knows exactly what he is talking about.

Forgeline wheels are hubcentric and they manf. know it's 72.56mm bore. The major issue is that our M5 front brakes @ 400mm is even larger than a typical Porsche front brake.

I have already begun my search for backup wheels and it will be 19" BMW stock 345M wheels which I will order from the States and in all, the wheels alone will be about $3000 (shipping, duties/taxes incl.). Once the word comes in later this week, I will have to act upon it and will have to order immediately.

Stay tuned and I will disclose the answer later this week.

Originally Posted by deathray

That scares the crap out of me. Its just crazy that they dont fit when made to stock size! That must mean the clearance on the stock 19's was nearly non-existant. My winter tires are coming pre-mounted because it worked out way cheaper for me that way.

How bad was the rub; how much more clearance did it need? Did you measure the wheels to see if they were, in fact, made to the right spec? Have you by chance figured out the minimum brake clearance requirement (I think Im going to try to talk to the master tech at my shop and figure that out tomorrow)?

If they were machined right, the only thing I can think of off hand is the hub diameter. Are the forgeline's hub-centric? As far as I know the correct center bore for the F10 M5 is 72.56mm. My master tech told me that the car needs hub-centric wheels to be properly stable and Ive heard from other places that some cars that demand hub centric wheels dont always center correctly off of just the nuts. If that is the issue, you might be able to get a quick fix with some spacers.

Keep us posted, Ill have them do a trial fit on my set when they come in and let you know if it works (I think the ship date is Sept 19 so I should get them a week or so later).

Good Luck.

[bobblehead]

Update on Forgeline 19" GA1R wheel fitment issue:

After having investigated for a week now, Forgeline is unable to redesign the inner barrel gemoetry without having to sacrifice the structure of the wheel integrity, therefore, my ordered wheel will have to be returned and Forgeline will need to take more time to investigate and go back to the drawing board to see how they can redesign the wheel to correctly fit for the M5 brake clearance.

As a result, I have no other choice but will go for the stock 345M 19" wheel to be used as my winter.

[thebishman]

I pick up my M5 on Saturday. Very excited as I've owned an E39 and E60 variant before and loved them both. As part of the negotiations the dealership agreed to allow me to purchase a set of the 19" OEM rims for invoice so that I can use them for winter tyres and to potentially throw some track tyres on them next season.

My question: can anyone recommend a decent set of winter tyres and sizes for me for the OEM 19" rims? I am fine going with a staggered set-up so as not to upset the handling too much, also the winters here are generally pretty mild. On my E60 I went with Pirelli Sottozeros and they worked fantastic for me in up to 6" of fresh powder. Frankly the look on the faces of pick-up drivers as I pulled around them to pass was classic. I will admit that IF I lived in an area with truly epic winter conditions like some of you here, the Sottozero would not be my choice.

BTW, I was wanting to perhaps buy a set of 19" BBS CH wheels for my winter/track set-up but I don't see them offered in that size for the F10 M5 on the Tirerack website. Should I wait until some are released or would the OEM 19"s be the wheel of choice?

TIA,
Bish

[bobblehead]

For your 19" ...you should be doing square setup, try to avoid staggered. 255/40/19 is the size and the choice would be:
Bridgestone LM60
Michelin PA4
Pirelli Sotto 240 Series 2
Nokian Hakka R

Those are the ones I would go for.

The BBS CH-R 19" I also looked at coouple of months ago and BBS has not test fitted onto the M5, therefore, if you buy them, you are on your own if they don't fit.

Originally Posted by thebishman

I pick up my M5 on Saturday. Very excited as I've owned an E39 and E60 variant before and loved them both. As part of the negotiations the dealership agreed to allow me to purchase a set of the 19" OEM rims for invoice so that I can use them for winter tyres and to potentially throw some track tyres on them next season.

My question: can anyone recommend a decent set of winter tyres and sizes for me for the OEM 19" rims? I am fine going with a staggered set-up so as not to upset the handling too much, also the winters here are generally pretty mild. On my E60 I went with Pirelli Sottozeros and they worked fantastic for me in up to 6" of fresh powder. Frankly the look on the faces of pick-up drivers as I pulled around them to pass was classic. I will admit that IF I lived in an area with truly epic winter conditions like some of you here, the Sottozero would not be my choice.

BTW, I was wanting to perhaps buy a set of 19" BBS CH wheels for my winter/track set-up but I don't see them offered in that size for the F10 M5 on the Tirerack website. Should I wait until some are released or would the OEM 19"s be the wheel of choice?

TIA,
Bish

[AGS]

Originally Posted by bobblehead

For your 19" ...you should be doing square setup, try to avoid staggered. 255/40/19 is the size and the choice would be:
Bridgestone LM60
Michelin PA4
Pirelli Sotto 240 Series 2
Nokian Hakka R

Those are the ones I would go for.

+1. I'm running the 255/40/19 square set-up with Bridgestone Blizzacks (precursor to the LM-60s) on my E60 M5 with great results.

[mtdavid]

Didn't read all the posts, but asked the M people in Munich if 18's would fit car, and they won't (was trying to use my winter tires from my M6)...

[SleepTight]

Originally Posted by AGS

+1. I'm running the 255/40/19 square set-up with Bridgestone Blizzacks (precursor to the LM-60s) on my E60 M5 with great results.

I'd prefer to go with 19s for a winter set up as well, but apparently no aftermarket vendors will guarantee fitment with a 19-inch wheel. That leaves you with the stock 19s from BMW as your only choice. For the money, you could go BBS or HRE, but then you're on your own if if they don't fit.

[bobblehead]

That's exactly what I was told by online vendors & local vendors.

I learnt this lesson just now and luckily, the wheel manuf. admitted they were wrong right from the start by guaranteeing their wheels will fit and clear the M5 front brak caliper. Otherwise, I am stuck with a $5000 alum coffee table.

Therefore, for all of you looking for aftermarket 19" ... be careful and ask questions.

Originally Posted by SleepTight

I'd prefer to go with 19s for a winter set up as well, but apparently no aftermarket vendors will guarantee fitment with a 19-inch wheel. That leaves you with the stock 19s from BMW as your only choice. For the money, you could go BBS or HRE, but then you're on your own if if they don't fit.

[AGS]

Originally Posted by SleepTight

I'd prefer to go with 19s for a winter set up as well, but apparently no aftermarket vendors will guarantee fitment with a 19-inch wheel. That leaves you with the stock 19s from BMW as your only choice. For the money, you could go BBS or HRE, but then you're on your own if if they don't fit.

Originally Posted by bobblehead

That's exactly what I was told by online vendors & local vendors.

I learnt this lesson just now and luckily, the wheel manuf. admitted they were wrong right from the start by guaranteeing their wheels will fit and clear the M5 front brak caliper. Otherwise, I am stuck with a $5000 alum coffee table.

Therefore, for all of you looking for aftermarket 19" ... be careful and ask questions.

Earlier in this thread (post #11) I mentioned that I'm researching whether I can use the winter setup for my E60 M5 on the new F10 M5. I use a set of OEM E63 M6 wheels (F 8.5x19 ET12; R 9.5x19 ET17). I ran an analysis on a spread sheet to see how the different wheel widths and offsets from the stock F10 M5 wheels would impact internal and external clearance. Internal clearance increases by 23-28 mm and external clearance decreases by 11 - 16 mm. So the wheels sit farther away from the body of the car, with a change in the wheel centerline of 17 - 22 mm farther out from the body. The only question that is unresolved is will the barrel of the wheel clear the calipers.

I passed my spread sheet along to my CA, who sent it to the US M-brand manager, who in turn sent it to the M engineers in Munich to review and oppine. I've not heard anything back yet but the US M-brand manager assured my CA they are working on it. In any event, my F10 M5 should be here by the end of the month at which time I can test fit them myself and report back on the fit.

[bobblehead]

The critical part is the F10 M5 brake caliper is so much bigger ...

Front: Six-piston fixed-calliper compound disc brakes (400 x 36 / vented) Rear: Six-piston fixed-calliper compound disc brakes (396 x 24 / vented)

Originally Posted by AGS

Earlier in this thread (post #11) I mentioned that I'm researching whether I can use the winter setup for my E60 M5 on the new F10 M5. I use a set of OEM E63 M6 wheels (F 8.5x19 ET12; R 9.5x19 ET17). I ran an analysis on a spread sheet to see how the different wheel widths and offsets from the stock F10 M5 wheels would impact internal and external clearance. Internal clearance increases by 23-28 mm and external clearance decreases by 11 - 16 mm. So the wheels sit farther away from the body of the car, with a change in the wheel centerline of 17 - 22 mm farther out from the body. The only question that is unresolved is will the barrel of the wheel clear the calipers.

I passed my spread sheet along to my CA, who sent it to the US M-brand manager, who in turn sent it to the M engineers in Munich to review and oppine. I've not heard anything back yet but the US M-brand manager assured my CA they are working on it. In any event, my F10 M5 should be here by the end of the month at which time I can test fit them myself and report back on the fit.

[Charlie Brown]

Originally Posted by thebishman

I pick up my M5 on Saturday. Very excited as I've owned an E39 and E60 variant before and loved them both. As part of the negotiations the dealership agreed to allow me to purchase a set of the 19" OEM rims for invoice so that I can use them for winter tyres and to potentially throw some track tyres on them next season.

My question: can anyone recommend a decent set of winter tyres and sizes for me for the OEM 19" rims? I am fine going with a staggered set-up so as not to upset the handling too much, also the winters here are generally pretty mild. On my E60 I went with Pirelli Sottozeros and they worked fantastic for me in up to 6" of fresh powder. Frankly the look on the faces of pick-up drivers as I pulled around them to pass was classic. I will admit that IF I lived in an area with truly epic winter conditions like some of you here, the Sottozero would not be my choice.

BTW, I was wanting to perhaps buy a set of 19" BBS CH wheels for my winter/track set-up but I don't see them offered in that size for the F10 M5 on the Tirerack website. Should I wait until some are released or would the OEM 19"s be the wheel of choice?

TIA,
Bish

What was the invoice for the stock 19s?

[thebishman]

Originally Posted by Charlie Brown

What was the invoice for the stock 19s?

Haven't checked yet. Will start the process tomorrow when I pick up the car..
Bish

[deathray]

Originally Posted by bobblehead

The critical part is the F10 M5 brake caliper is so much bigger ...

Front: Six-piston fixed-calliper compound disc brakes (400 x 36 / vented) Rear: Six-piston fixed-calliper compound disc brakes (396 x 24 / vented)

I was taking a look at some pictures of the forgelines...are the callipers contacting on that neck-like portion just behind the front of the wheel where the barrel narrows? Getting the wrong offset and contacting the spokes I could understand, but, you would figure that a 19" barrel is a 19" barrel. Still waiting for mine, I hope I dont end up with cool looking furniture.

[bobblehead]

With straight fitting onto the hub, the caliper is touching/sitting on the inner barrel in which it actually will make the bore hole to be misaligned. There is simply no way for the wheel to rotate freely.

The way the GA1R wheel is made ... the barrel slope a bit downwards from where the spokes. That means, right behind the spokes is the highest point of the inner barrel, the wheel shop was suggesting to Forgeline if that can be smoothed out but Forgeline did not put that into their CAD for recalculation. Therefore, Steve Schardt of Forgeline will not do further follow up and simply responded to me by saying 'Sorry'.

Apparently, the wheel shop was showing me several forged wheels which each design has a slight variation of how the inner barrel is contoured and shaped. The wheel shop was showing me two HRE wheels and I can actually see there is a very slight variation of the inner barrel.

Anyway, the wheel shop did say your CCW wheels should be alright ... at least on paper. When you get yours for actual fitting, I like to hear your outcome. I really hope yours will turn out to have no issue at all, thus the bloggers here will know what aftermarket 19" wheels are safe to buy.

Originally Posted by deathray

I was taking a look at some pictures of the forgelines...are the callipers contacting on that neck-like portion just behind the front of the wheel where the barrel narrows? Getting the wrong offset and contacting the spokes I could understand, but, you would figure that a 19" barrel is a 19" barrel. Still waiting for mine, I hope I dont end up with cool looking furniture.

[nordic@telia.com]

Originally Posted by mwlmd

Anyone have any thoughts?

I was considering a square setup of Michelin Pilot Alpin PA4 in 255/40/19 on 19x9 ET35 wheels.

Perhaps something from AG?

I will mount these Michelin on my 343 20" original wheels

[bobblehead]

wow, that crazy too wide for winter use. Just my opinion.

[remmib]

Originally Posted by nordic@telia.com

I will mount these Michelin on my 343 20" original wheels

That's some balling winter tires.

Where in Sweden do you live? I assume you will be driving it mostly in the city on salted roads?

[thebishman]

Originally Posted by Charlie Brown

What was the invoice for the stock 19s?

$2516.34 plus tax is what I was quoted as cost for a set of the OEM 19"s.
Bish

[bobblehead]

How can that be invoice cost ? Are we talking about 345M ?

If so, Tischer is quoting $2200 for a full set of 345M. BMW Bloomfield is quoting almost identical to Tischer as well.

Originally Posted by thebishman

$2516.34 plus tax is what I was quoted as cost for a set of the OEM 19"s.
Bish