BMW M5 F10 vs Panamera GTS (Motortrend Comparo Video)

[ufgtrs2007]

The M5 feels like an M car. It can be an everyday cruiser, then with changing a couple of settings, it could turn into a monster. It is a big car and you can feel the weight around corners, but I've driven the M5, the 550i, and owned an E93 M3, and the M5 is far superior to the feel of a 550i and feels the same to my M3 in terms of steering and M pedigree.

[mindlessmark07]

Originally Posted by benzo23

Thats a lot of money for a Volkswagen beetle with a v8 and 4 doors M5 all day...

Word!

[rhogue]

The Panamera drives really nice but the rear end styling is questionable for a 100k+ car. I went with a M5 because it's a better all around car for everyday driving....not to mention i have three kids so the Panamera was a non-starter.

[rsteele]

Originally Posted by wolfbimmer

I own both Panamera GTS and M5. I agree with the review. Every time I drive the GTS it puts a huge smile on my face. M5 doen't disappoint, but it is a much less exciting car despite al this power.

I'm also struggling with a next car choice between an F10 M5 and a Panamera GTS, so a post from someone with ownership of both is more important than an auto journalist's one-day encounter.

Enjoyment of driving on a daily basis means much more to me than owning the better Nordschleife lap time, so I was already leaning a little toward the GTS. Reports of how the F10 M5 isolates one from the driving experience, even at illegal speeds, are a major concern. When I price how I would configure the M5 and the GTS, they are priced at $105,197 and $113,635, respectively. Not a deal breaking difference in my opinion. The Porsche will cost more to maintain, but the M5 more to feed. Compared to the pathetic range of my E60 M5, the 26+ gallon fuel tank in the GTS has appeal. I thought the E39 M5 was the perfect size, so I consider the F10 M5 and GTS equally too large. Some think the Panamera is a touch on the ugly side, but if the choice is about visual appeal, difficulty distinguishing the current 3, 5, and 7 series Bimmers apart on the road is equally problematic. Having folks mistake my M5 for a 3-series is a little too much stealth for me. Moreover, every Bimmer I've ever owned has eventually developed annoying rattles and squeaks, the only solution for which has been to turn on the radio too loudly. In my current M5, all door seals squeak in warmer weather, and there's an intermittent buzzing from somewhere in the dash area under acceleration that significantly violates the V10's melody. I've never heard anything but road, wind, and engine sounds in the six Porsches I have owned.

[stealth.pilot]

Originally Posted by rsteele

I'm also struggling with a next car choice between an F10 M5 and a Panamera GTS, so a post from someone with ownership of both is more important than an auto journalist's one-day encounter.

Enjoyment of driving on a daily basis means much more to me than owning the better Nordschleife lap time, so I was already leaning a little toward the GTS. Reports of how the F10 M5 isolates one from the driving experience, even at illegal speeds, are a major concern. When I price how I would configure the M5 and the GTS, they are priced at $105,197 and $113,635, respectively. Not a deal breaking difference in my opinion. The Porsche will cost more to maintain, but the M5 more to feed. Compared to the pathetic range of my E60 M5, the 26+ gallon fuel tank in the GTS has appeal. I thought the E39 M5 was the perfect size, so I consider the F10 M5 and GTS equally too large. Some think the Panamera is a touch on the ugly side, but if the choice is about visual appeal, difficulty distinguishing the current 3, 5, and 7 series Bimmers apart on the road is equally problematic. Having folks mistake my M5 for a 3-series is a little too much stealth for me. Moreover, every Bimmer I've ever owned has eventually developed annoying rattles and squeaks, the only solution for which has been to turn on the radio too loudly. In my current M5, all door seals squeak in warmer weather, and there's an intermittent buzzing from somewhere in the dash area under acceleration that significantly violates the V10's melody. I've never heard anything but road, wind, and engine sounds in the six Porsches I have owned.

I had the same choice and after driving both, I came to the conclusion that it was a choice between the better car, and the more expensive looking car. I chose the better car.

My guess is the build quality of the Porsche is better - some have complained about noises in the M5. But the M5 is at the same build level as Audi and Mercedes. I put up with this for all the other strengths. The M5 has a very tangible superiority over every other sedan on the market that is always obvious to you when driving it. The GTS doesn't have that.

[rsteele]

By the way, wolfbimmer, virtually all trade journal testing of the Panamera GTS is with car that carries the $5,000 optional Dynamic Chassis Control with Torque Vectoring, yet the dealerships say that's only of benefit when driving at the car's limits on a race track and rarely order a GTS that way. Does your GTS have this option? And/or do you have an opinion about it?

[carholic]

To me. the Pan is a more special car to be in, from the alcantara interior to the piano black trim to the little chrome trim around each button to the rising console like a cockpit. Add to that the firmer and more supportive seats and a WAY better sounding exhaust system, and the PAN is just a more involving and rewarding drive, not even counting the better steering and handling (I have PDCC). I also find the transmission modes better sorted out in the Pan where every one of them is tuned well, whereas the comfort mode in the M5 is too tame and the sport plus mode is so jerky that it is unusable in daily driving.

The M5 has more electronic gadgets (BMW apps, album art, etc) and more thrust overall.

I think the Pan GTS is ugly from the side, but pretty from the front and back, and very pretty and special-looking inside, with four individual seats, alcantara and piano black trim everywhere. The M5 is mediocre looking everywhere.

[stealth.pilot]

Originally Posted by carholic

To me. the Pan is a more special car to be in, from the alcantara interior to the piano black trim to the little chrome trim around each button to the rising console like a cockpit. Add to that the firmer and more supportive seats and a WAY better sounding exhaust system, and the PAN is just a more involving and rewarding drive, not even counting the better steering and handling (I have PDCC). I also find the transmission modes better sorted out in the Pan where every one of them is tuned well, whereas the comfort mode in the M5 is too tame and the sport plus mode is so jerky that it is unusable in daily driving.

The M5 has more electronic gadgets (BMW apps, album art, etc) and more thrust overall.

I think the Pan GTS is ugly from the side, but pretty from the front and back, and very pretty and special-looking inside, with four individual seats, alcantara and piano black trim everywhere. The M5 is mediocre looking everywhere.

I don't agree with you on the seats and the interior at all.

I spent 8.5 hours in the drivers seat of my M5 over 700 miles and was comfortable the entire trip. It is the first car I have had which provides that level of comfort.

The Pan has a great interior if you go custom - but the standard fare looks pretty tame to me.

[rsteele]

Originally Posted by stealth.pilot

I had the same choice and after driving both, I came to the conclusion that it was a choice between the better car, and the more expensive looking car. I chose the better car.

My guess is the build quality of the Porsche is better - some have complained about noises in the M5. But the M5 is at the same build level as Audi and Mercedes. I put up with this for all the other strengths. The M5 has a very tangible superiority over every other sedan on the market that is always obvious to you when driving it. The GTS doesn't have that.

I appreciate the input. I vacillate quite a bit on the decision and small things could tip the scale, like...how will I transport my bicycle? A test drive much longer than around the block is what's really needed, but that opportunity will not be offered.

[stealth.pilot]

Originally Posted by rsteele

I appreciate the input. I vacillate quite a bit on the decision and small things could tip the scale, like...how will I transport my bicycle? A test drive much longer than around the block is what's really needed, but that opportunity will not be offered.

From what you described, I think you would be quite happy with the GTS.

The GTS was insufficient for me because I found the response of the naturally aspirated engine inadequate, and also I care about having the latest tech. e.g. the M HUD is a game changer for me. But if the GTS had an M5 engine, M Active Differential, M DCT, and M HUD, I would probably have got the GTS because I like the other characteristics of the Porsche.

[Used2be]

Originally Posted by rsteele

but if the choice is about visual appeal, difficulty distinguishing the current 3, 5, and 7 series Bimmers apart on the road is equally problematic. Having folks mistake my M5 for a 3-series is a little too much stealth for me.

But isn't the appeal of buying an M model from BMW derived from the extra power and handling built into the car, and not how different it looks? To me the feel and performance of the car while I'm driving it is the primary return on my investment, and not how I look to people outside of the car as I drive by.

I will be taking the stealth mode for my M5 further than most of you would care to do by using the diffuser from the 550 with the M sport package, fabricating exhaust tips shaped as the 550 tips are and welding them to an aftermarket exhaust like the Eisenmann. This effort applied just because I prefer the exhaust tip shape to follow the turn signal shape, and the smoother flow of the rear of the car without the extensions of the diffuser fighting the smooth inward curve of the rear bodywork. Just a more integrated, modular approach to the rear of the car which won't enhance or detract from performance. All personal preference of course, there is no right or wrong.

[Niko1414]

Originally Posted by Used2be

But isn't the appeal of buying an M model from BMW derived from the extra power and handling built into the car, and not how different it looks? To me the feel and performance of the car while I'm driving it is the primary return on my investment, and not how I look to people outside of the car as I drive by.

I will be taking the stealth mode for my M5 further than most of you would care to do by using the diffuser from the 550 with the M sport package, fabricating exhaust tips shaped as the 550 tips are and welding them to an aftermarket exhaust like the Eisenmann. This effort applied just because I prefer the exhaust tip shape to follow the turn signal shape, and the smoother flow of the rear of the car without the extensions of the diffuser fighting the smooth inward curve of the rear bodywork. Just a more integrated, modular approach to the rear of the car which won't enhance or detract from performance. All personal preference of course, there is no right or wrong.

That sound great cant wait to see pic

[carholic]

Originally Posted by stealth.pilot

I don't agree with you on the seats and the interior at all.

I spent 8.5 hours in the drivers seat of my M5 over 700 miles and was comfortable the entire trip. It is the first car I have had which provides that level of comfort.

The Pan has a great interior if you go custom - but the standard fare looks pretty tame to me.

I don't think I disagree with you at all. I think the M5 is a more comfortable long distance cruiser because it has wider and softer seats, plus a quieter exhaust.

I am also in agreement with you on the Pan's standard interior. If my Pan had wood trim and standard partial leather (or even full leather), I would think the interior is not much better than the M5. However, the alcantara and leather interior and the piano black trim is standard on the GTS. If I had to choose between a regular Pan S and an M5, I would choose the M5 all day long. However, the extra 30 hp, the custom interior, and new quicker transmission and the new sport exhaust and sound symposium feature, along with the new lowered ride height makes it very different than a Pan S or even a 4S. However it is also $35,000 more than a regular Pan S and $25,000 more than my pretty loaded M5, so those things did not come free.

In many ways, the M5 is a better value.

[stealth.pilot]

Originally Posted by carholic

In many ways, the M5 is a better value.

Yes. When I build the GTS to the same spec as my M5 it comes out to $138k, vs. $114k for my M5. And even then GTS doesn't have some things. GTS is really priced against the M6GC.

[hinckley]

Originally Posted by stealth.pilot

GTS is really priced against the M6GC.

+1

Most people don't realize how Porsche's are configured. A "base" Porsche does not equal a base BMW. You do a lot of option list shopping before you get a P-car to the sort of spec you expect from this sort of car. Mind you, the very, very long option list allows for remarkably customized cars, but if you're cross-shopping a BMW and don't option up the Porsche, you will not be happy. My very nice, but not extravegant 911s have had total prices about 30% over their base prices.

[rsteele]

Originally Posted by Used2be

...To me the feel and performance of the car while I'm driving it is the primary return on my investment, and not how I look to people outside of the car as I drive by...

100% Agreement. I was playing devil's advocate for the "GTS is ugly" contingent. Concessions for practicality aside, all that matters to me is what I see and feel from the driver's seat. When I owned a Porsche 928, it was regarded by many as ugly. Comments, like "Please change its diaper!" come to mind, but I traded out of it because I hated its suspension, which went from not-at-all-tied-down and "floaty" over bumps on the original shocks to vertebral compression fracture stiffness and lost road contact over bumps on replacement Bilsteins.

[Used2be]

Originally Posted by rsteele

100% Agreement. I was playing devil's advocate for the "GTS is ugly" contingent. Concessions for practicality aside, all that matters to me is what I see and feel from the driver's seat. When I owned a Porsche 928, it was regarded by many as ugly.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and those judgements are so subjective. I do remember that the 928 was regarded as "not a Porsche" by many. Was that the first water cooled, and front mounted V8 as well, for the Porsche family? You were a brave man and did not care about public perception then, good for you.

[grendel88]

Originally Posted by rsteele

100% Agreement. I was playing devil's advocate for the "GTS is ugly" contingent. Concessions for practicality aside, all that matters to me is what I see and feel from the driver's seat. When I owned a Porsche 928, it was regarded by many as ugly. Comments, like "Please change its diaper!" come to mind, but I traded out of it because I hated its suspension, which went from not-at-all-tied-down and "floaty" over bumps on the original shocks to vertebral compression fracture stiffness and lost road contact over bumps on replacement Bilsteins.

I have had my GTS for 3 weeks now and do not regret my choice one bit. I did not get the PDCC. As far as Northern California highways and back roads, the car handles great without it in my opinion. However, this is a subjective experience of going 55-65 MPH through 30 MPH on/off ramp turns and s turns.

I only test drove the M5, and it felt like a 550 with much more torque. I think the Motortrend article was very accurate about really having to really drive it hard to enjoy it.

My GTS MSRPed at $124K. The M5 that I wanted was $105K with more features. The lease rates are about 5% better than Porsche as well and you get "free" maintenance.

Again, the argument always comes down to looks and value, which most people favor the BMW.

I came from an E92 and have owned 6 BMWs in total, and as I have posted elsewhere here, the GTS drives like a big M3, and the M5 drives like a turbo 7 series.

If you like exhaust note, high revving NA engines, and the Porsche brand, then the GTS is the choice. If you want a knock your ass in your seat acceleration, lots of tech features, and save some cash, go M5.

As far as build quality, my GTS seems to be a little nice and slightly more exotic like. The M5 interior is 95% the same as my wife's 535 GT, which is nice, but not special.

Again, I am not hating on the M5, the GTS just felt perfect for my needs.

Good luck with your choice!

[Niko1414]

What is even more amazing is that the GTS is almost as quick as the turbo s model which is like 75k+ more

http://www.insideline.com/porsche/panamera/2013/2013-porsche-panamera-gts-vs-2012-porsche-panamera-turbo-s-track-test.html

if buying a panamera GTS FTW....and save some major cash

[rsteele]

Originally Posted by grendel88

...Good luck with your choice!

Thanks, and I appreciate your even-handed approach. My first choice actually would be the unavailable option #3 of replacing my 2006 E60 M5 with a new end-of-production 2010 version according to my specifications. The only new technology feature I seek, being able to enter destinations by GPS coordinates, appears still to be lacking in the current alternatives, and I love the E60's V10, fuel consumption and range not withstanding. In contrast to early model 7's, I never minded the M's iDrive, and I now have a good working relationship with the M's SMG.

[grendel88]

Originally Posted by rsteele

Thanks, and I appreciate your even-handed approach. My first choice actually would be the unavailable option #3 of replacing my 2006 E60 M5 with a new end-of-production 2010 version according to my specifications. The only new technology feature I seek, being able to enter destinations by GPS coordinates, appears still to be lacking in the current alternatives, and I love the E60's V10, fuel consumption and range not withstanding. In contrast to early model 7's, I never minded the M's iDrive, and I now have a good working relationship with the M's SMG.

The DCT is amazing. I loved it in my E92, but the PDK in the GTS is even more responsive and, when in sport plus, even more aggressive than than M mode with the DCT on the highest setting. I did not test this setting that thoroughly on my M5 test drive. I say go test drive a GTS if you have not yet. You will like the NA engine. It doesn't scream like the E60 V10, but it revs really freely and sounds great.

[bm323]

Originally Posted by grendel88

I only test drove the M5, and it felt like a 550 with much more torque.

This is off the mark you last said that the M5 handled like the 535 gran tourismo

ps I would not be able to rely on your "reviews"