My Straightpiped F10 M5 Experience on Virginia International Raceway

[gmd2003]

Looking at the video objectively , there were many instances that the OP made very abrupt aggressive wheel movements while being offline and on elevation changes. If he had been MDM or DSC, off with 500 pound feet to the wheels....... I promise he would have had a very bad day. The instructor saved his ass, especially on the back straight with the hill before the braking zone by having him slow down. You all need to remember an instructor is putting his life in your hands for essentially a free track day. ... I would have made him slow down too.

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by gmd2003

Looking at the video objectively , there were many instances that the OP made very abrupt aggressive wheel movements while being offline and on elevation changes. If he had been MDM or DSC, off with 500 pound feet to the wheels....... I promise he would have had a very bad day. The instructor saved his ass, especially on the back straight with the hill before the braking zone by having him slow down. You all need to remember an instructor is putting his life in your hands for essentially a free track day. ... I would have made him slow down too.

You mean like at 0:37 and 0:42?

They might be doing a pre determined programme on that lap? Otherwise it seems that the input on the steering wheel is to large and instead of taking it as one long corner, it ends up as two sharp ones.

But as he was under instruction I assume that there is a reason to what appears to be unusual lines through some corners.

Car sounds awesome though on the drive by clips I understand why people made comments on the sound being like a race car

[gmd2003]

Originally Posted by Boss330

You mean like at 0:37 and 0:42?

They might be doing a pre determined programme on that lap? Otherwise it seems that the input on the steering wheel is to large and instead of taking it as one long corner, it ends up as two sharp ones.

But as he was under instruction I assume that there is a reason to what appears to be unusual lines through some corners.

Come on Boss why would you teach a beginner a horrible habit like sudden steering inputs in a DE . I had a friend at the event , I assure you that wasn't part of the instruction program lol .

[RPiM5]

Originally Posted by gmd2003

Looking at the video objectively , there were many instances that the OP made very abrupt aggressive wheel movements while being offline and on elevation changes. If he had been MDM or DSC, off with 500 pound feet to the wheels....... I promise he would have had a very bad day. The instructor saved his ass, especially on the back straight with the hill before the braking zone by having him slow down. You all need to remember an instructor is putting his life in your hands for essentially a free track day. ... I would have made him slow down too.

I knew there was going to be somebody defending the CCA and/or the instructor. Lol!

I'm not a novice. I purposefully drove slow in the first day because I wanted to learn the line. It was unfortunate the second day we had such low temperatures and I really didn't want to go off track with a 4,400lbs car and with the grass like ice, so I scaled it back. I was just disappointed that there were certain times I knew the car could go faster and I knew the tires were at optimum temps and the instructor held me back. I understand that it's his life in your hands too, I used to be a flight instructor myself, so you make a good point. Like I said, I wasn't trying to be Vettel out there, but I know my limits and it was a little annoying that I had to comply with the CCA's safety rules which to me were a little excessive. I mean there were people in my run group who didn't even have the slightest concept of what a racing line is and yet the CCA didn't even give a class on track theory that weekend. Sorry if I was a little frustrated, but in the end my instructor said that I drove very very well the entire weekend and at no point did he feel he needed to explain the basics to me.

[RPiM5]

Originally Posted by richard in NC

Worse was the "no MDM" rule. I'm sure the car and you are better off to learn to drive the car, not depending on full nanny controls.
If DSC didn't flash, you weren't pushing hard enough. If it flashed constantly you were over driving it.

I agree dude. I can only really remember a couple of times the DSC light was flashing at that was really only at Oak Tree. It's a tricky turn and it does take a long time to master. The rest of the track all weekend, I really didn't push the M5 that hard. I would have been fine with MDM.

[RPiM5]

Originally Posted by Boss330

You mean like at 0:37 and 0:42?

They might be doing a pre determined programme on that lap? Otherwise it seems that the input on the steering wheel is to large and instead of taking it as one long corner, it ends up as two sharp ones.

But as he was under instruction I assume that there is a reason to what appears to be unusual lines through some corners.

Car sounds awesome though on the drive by clips I understand why people made comments on the sound being like a race car

Yes that is correct. He was teaching me one of two ways to get through that corner. It's the most difficult corner on the whole track. Oak Tree. Those movements you saw me make in the video were exactly the instructors instructions, including the sharp movements and turns.

[RPiM5]

Originally Posted by richard in NC

VIR is always a great track to drive. Hate that you were limited. I've only done Porsche PCA events there and ran solo the last time. BMW CCA would probably still consider me a novice.
I did use early braking on the back straight but ran flat out until then and hit 135 in an e60 550i.
PS at 1-2 events per year it's taken a while (and an M School) to properly turn in and balance a big car.
It's an accomplishment to do so as compared to a much lighter track focused car.

Thanks dude. Yeah I've done over a dozen track events in the past, mostly in my old E60 M5. They didn't care. It's almost like a right of passage thing with them I think.

I will say that it wasn't so much the instructor holding me back but the run group itself. There were drivers driving completely way off line, trying to learn for the very first time, and driving very slow. Plus in the lowest run group they didn't allow us to pass in the corners. I'm sure most people can understand my slight frustration.

[RPiM5]

Originally Posted by turbo8765

What were you hitting on the front straight? Was your instructor also limiting your speed there?

As you know there's a crest on the back straight immediately before the braking zone for 14. Asking a novice group driver to not crest the hill just before the braking zone at 150mph is not unreasonable. It's probably wise.

BTW, the shifts sounded absolutely ridiculous from the paddock. The video doesn't really do the sound justice.

Yes my instructor was limiting my speed on the front straight as well. After a while I just have up on going full throttle on the front straight as I knew he would tell me to slow down anyways even when it was completely open. But most of the time I wouldn't have gone that fast anyways on the front straight because there were so many slow drivers.

[RPiM5]

Originally Posted by SANguru

I've driven VIR in a rental car and it's great track! Looked like you had some fun

couple things to note.. try not to "dive over" to set up the turns.. you unsettle the car setting up for the next corner making you slower. The 2nd thing is slow your hands down. There is a lot of to quick steering inputs which also unsettles it.

In general for CCA track days in the novice run group, they do limit your speeds. That's why I stopped going to those. But do remember 1st time you go to any track is focusing on the fundamentals. Learning the line, braking points, etc. Speed will come naturally when you get more familiar.

Thanks for the input brotha. Sorry I missed you when I drive through back in September.

[turbo8765]

Originally Posted by RPiM5

I'm not a novice… CCA didn't even give a class on track theory that weekend.

If you're participating in the novice group and the instructor doesn't know you, you'll likely be treated as a novice.

I thought Mike Skeen's session was fantastic. Probably the best I've ever had at a DE, and I've been to a lot of DEs.

Originally Posted by RPiM5

Thanks dude. Yeah I've done over a dozen track events in the past, mostly in my old E60 M5. They didn't care. It's almost like a right of passage thing with them I think.

I didn't find this to be true. Has it been a long time since your last track day?

[RPiM5]

Originally Posted by turbo8765

If you're participating in the novice group and the instructor doesn't know you, you'll likely be treated as a novice.

I thought Mike Skeen's session was fantastic. Probably the best I've ever had at a DE, and I've been to a lot of DEs.

I didn't find this to be true. Has it been a long time since your last track day?

Yeah, but which group were you in dude? Each group got different classes. I thought the classes were great, but they only talked about basic basic stuff like how to pass when driving in a club event, and not about the different kinds of apex turns or different kinds of braking.

Also what were you driving? Not an F10 M5, since I met the only other guy with one there, and you can't be him since he told me he didn't even know Bimmerpost existed. Lol!

Yes it has been a long time since my last track day. Over a year at least.

[turbo8765]

While the F10 was a blast on the autobahn, I consider the e92 a big car.

I have a dedicated track car and ran in the advanced group.

[RPiM5]

Originally Posted by turbo8765

While the F10 was a blast on the autobahn, I consider the e92 a big car.

I have a dedicated track car and ran in the advanced group.

That's cool dude. Yeah if I had been in the B or C group, I wouldn't have been as annoyed. Lol! Like I said I still had a blast though. I might do future track events there at VIR, but maybe not an HPDE.

[RPiM5]

Also for fun, check out this speed comparison between GT racecars and F1 racecars. Crazy!



http://m.wimp.com/speedracing/

[Greer]

I just read the whole right up, sounds like a great time. I know they held you back, but after a few events you will have a blast.

[Hoopumpers]

Originally Posted by RPiM5

Also for fun, check out this speed comparison between GT racecars and F1 racecars. Crazy!



http://m.wimp.com/speedracing/

Cool side by side. The aero on F1 is crazy. One of my instructors at Sebring raced LMP1 prototypes with big aero...said he had to relearn how to drive because of downforce. He said entry speed at turn 1 was 185MPH, with exit speed of 165. Insane.

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by RPiM5

Yes that is correct. He was teaching me one of two ways to get through that corner. It's the most difficult corner on the whole track. Oak Tree. Those movements you saw me make in the video were exactly the instructors instructions, including the sharp movements and turns.

[gmd2003]

Originally Posted by RPiM5

Yes that is correct. He was teaching me one of two ways to get through that corner. It's the most difficult corner on the whole track. Oak Tree. Those movements you saw me make in the video were exactly the instructors instructions, including the sharp movements and turns.

Weird he was telling you to make those steering inputs on the line you were taking esp on oak tree . If you had been DSC off that would have spun you out . As you know you can't get away with jerky movements in a high HP 4300 pound car in a tight corner . Sorry it appears you had some bad teaching . Smooth is fast ! Kudos to actually tracking the big girl , and she sounded fantastic .

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by gmd2003

Weird he was telling you to make those steering inputs on the line you were taking esp on oak tree . If you had been DSC off that would have spun you out . As you know you can't get away with jerky movements in a high HP 4300 pound car in a tight corner . Sorry it appears you had some bad teaching . Smooth is fast ! Kudos to actually tracking the big girl , and she sounded fantastic .

It would only have "spun him out" if the DSC light was flashing like crazy when he did that manouvre... No flashing DSC light, no loss of stability or traction. And there also is something called throttle control

[ufgtrs2007]

Dave,

Glad you had a good time despite being limited by your instructor. I feel like he should have let you open it up more and more as each session went by. I would have loved to be there last weekend, I think it would have made D group a little more interesting having another M5 in the group. Unfortunately, I had some issues with my front brakes and had to cancel.

Let me know if you find out about other driving events coming up in the area. Car sounds beast btw.

Haysam

[RPiM5]

Originally Posted by ufgtrs2007

Dave,

Glad you had a good time despite being limited by your instructor. I feel like he should have let you open it up more and more as each session went by. I would have loved to be there last weekend, I think it would have made D group a little more interesting having another M5 in the group. Unfortunately, I had some issues with my front brakes and had to cancel.

Let me know if you find out about other driving events coming up in the area. Car sounds beast btw.

Haysam

I was wondering what happened to you lol! Next time bud!

[gmd2003]

Originally Posted by Boss330

It would only have "spun him out" if the DSC light was flashing like crazy when he did that manouvre... No flashing DSC light, no loss of stability or traction. And there also is something called throttle control

He already said it was flashing in oak tree . It's never the right thing to make sudden inputs and unsettle the car .... Unless you are in a drift competition . Just trying to give the
OP some some solid advice that any experienced driver would echo . You just like to argue for the sake of it but this time you are being pretty dense.
PS If you can drive around staring at your DSC light your doing something wayyyyy wrong LMAO