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      01-25-2015, 04:22 PM   #155
AstonMartian777
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OMG, YES if you're depending on meth, meaning if you're running boost higher than what the engine can handle without that extra fueling, for example you're running +6 psi on meth with fail safe set at +3.5 psi, at the moment of lets say pump fail the failsafe is supposed to turn your boost down to +3.5 psi, and if it doesn't your engine will detonate but if your meth is running at boost levels that engine can handle without the extra fueling, in this example it would be +3.5 psi, how can it do any damage ? The benefit would be better timing from meth as an alternative to racegas. Maybe I'm not understanding something ?
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      01-25-2015, 06:12 PM   #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M6-Coupe View Post
Good point. And these question has been asked several times, but non of tuners answered yet. Everybody knows the DCT on current M5/M6 is GETRAG 7DCI700 and the maximum torque is rated to 700 NM (516 lb-ft). Considering Germans are conservative ,10-15% underrated still we are at less than 600 lb-ft torque input and probably 600-650 HP power input...Isn't this much tuning harmful for a DD car that is supposed to be pushed to the limit SOMETIMES (ie LC or hard acceleration) and run +100k miles in 5-6 years?
Well I know from one of the best turners on the e90 platform and its pretty much confirmed that the auto trans in the 335i can not handle what the single turbo kits can throw at it [600+] and I just feel once you start seeing 700+ shits gonna break.. I think the germans quality is probably much higher than that of say the GTR granted I'm sure the AMS rep can offer an opinion on that too since they do that platform better than just about anyone, so I'm betting 700s/700s will last a lot longer on an m5 than say a boosted stock gtr...

I just built the GTR with a stage 3 shep trans and I'm only making 700s on low boost... It would just baffle me if someone strapped big ass turbos on this car the rods/pistons and trans could just take that as safely as most of us are beating on the cars now in the high 500s/600s granted now that tuning is available they can smooth out the curve to help wear and tear, but still 700+ is 700+ lol.

just curious if this is something I should reconsider when I dump the m4 getting back into the m5/m6 game
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      01-26-2015, 02:21 PM   #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AstonMartian777 View Post
OMG, YES if you're depending on meth, meaning if you're running boost higher than what the engine can handle without that extra fueling, for example you're running +6 psi on meth with fail safe set at +3.5 psi, at the moment of lets say pump fail the failsafe is supposed to turn your boost down to +3.5 psi, and if it doesn't your engine will detonate but if your meth is running at boost levels that engine can handle without the extra fueling, in this example it would be +3.5 psi, how can it do any damage ? The benefit would be better timing from meth as an alternative to racegas. Maybe I'm not understanding something ?

I would like AMS to answer this !
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      01-26-2015, 04:05 PM   #158
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This is all exciting and I can't wait to try it out....but this begs the question.....what the heck am I going to do for drag radials?!? I need some DR's I can drive around on all weekend without throwing a code!
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      01-26-2015, 04:33 PM   #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AstonMartian777 View Post
OMG, YES if you're depending on meth, meaning if you're running boost higher than what the engine can handle without that extra fueling, for example you're running +6 psi on meth with fail safe set at +3.5 psi, at the moment of lets say pump fail the failsafe is supposed to turn your boost down to +3.5 psi, and if it doesn't your engine will detonate but if your meth is running at boost levels that engine can handle without the extra fueling, in this example it would be +3.5 psi, how can it do any damage ? The benefit would be better timing from meth as an alternative to racegas. Maybe I'm not understanding something ?
I still dont think you are getting it. If you tune the car for the additional octane which is what you are suggesting then when that additional octane isn't there the engine will have problems. Your scenario suggests that failsafes in the meth system will work. THAT is where I am in disagreement. Every meth injection system we have seen come through these doors has had a problem.

The only time we feel safe using meth is by tuning the car for pump fuel then adding a soft mixture (windshield washer fluid) on top of it without adding any extra timing or boost. The extra cooling from the fluid can increase Hp a little by lowering the IAT's but if it fails the car is going to be just fine...just make less power. In this scenario it would serve the purpose of good intercooler system.

Racegas is safer because as Boss suggested you are not relying on a relatively unreliable secondary injection system that has no communication point with the factory DME. ON race gas you build the tune for that fuel and and as long as you have that fuel in the tank you are golden.

Eric

Last edited by AMS ALPHA; 01-26-2015 at 04:52 PM..
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      01-26-2015, 04:49 PM   #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dossey View Post
This is all exciting and I can't wait to try it out....but this begs the question.....what the heck am I going to do for drag radials?!? I need some DR's I can drive around on all weekend without throwing a code!
Driving on DRs won't throw a code. I drove on Nitto 20" drags for a entire summer. It seemed that WOT there were no issues. But occasionally, part throttle shifts were a bit odd and hang up or traction control would kick in for no reason, but this was somewhat rare. And after the first time it scares shit out of you you will be prepared.

If you went to say a MT 19" DR there would be no issues. The tire diameter is very close to stock height. Only thing is you'd look a bit goofy if you didn't have matching rims. LOL. I didn't give a shit myself and sometimes went out on the town with miss-matched rims.

But I am not too confident of the sidewall lateral strength, plus I was driving on the street with only 25psi so no corner carving. Straight line fun only.
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      01-26-2015, 05:09 PM   #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M-bitious View Post
I have been running the Leib tune with 647 rwhp (750 crank) and 935Nm without any issues for months. However I have the feeling that a lot more torque will give issues with the clutch slipping and the tranny. I also wonder how driveable the car will be with more power. We are at the limit of what a rear wheel drive car can put down. For a M5 with over 800 crank and 950Nm we will be needing hardware modifications, perhaps even on the engine.
But I recall the other day you said that you avoid hard acceleration/launch correct?... and you never know what's going on on long term!!! maybe in 1-2 years
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      01-26-2015, 11:59 PM   #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AMS ALPHA View Post
I still dont think you are getting it. If you tune the car for the additional octane which is what you are suggesting then when that additional octane isn't there the engine will have problems. Your scenario suggests that failsafes in the meth system will work. THAT is where I am in disagreement. Every meth injection system we have seen come through these doors has had a problem.

The only time we feel safe using meth is by tuning the car for pump fuel then adding a soft mixture (windshield washer fluid) on top of it without adding any extra timing or boost. The extra cooling from the fluid can increase Hp a little by lowering the IAT's but if it fails the car is going to be just fine...just make less power. In this scenario it would serve the purpose of good intercooler system.

Racegas is safer because as Boss suggested you are not relying on a relatively unreliable secondary injection system that has no communication point with the factory DME. ON race gas you build the tune for that fuel and and as long as you have that fuel in the tank you are golden.

Eric
Yes, but I can still throw on JB4 on top of ams tune and run meth that has been pretty reliable on other platforms. Thanks ! and btw what boost are you running to achieve these numbers ? Thanks !
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      01-27-2015, 12:59 AM   #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M6-Coupe View Post
But I recall the other day you said that you avoid hard acceleration/launch correct?... and you never know what's going on on long term!!! maybe in 1-2 years
Correct I don't launch, but hard acceleration I do all the time. My car has held up fine with over 700 crank bhp for more than 55,000 km and it still feels like new. My point is that I would be concerned to drive with much more power on stock components. I have already heard of a failed tranny on an M5 with 980 Nm.
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      01-27-2015, 07:40 AM   #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leveraged Sellout
Quote:
Originally Posted by AstonMartian777 View Post
So why can't we use meth for that ?
I think he's answered this a few times now -

1. Meth isn't a safe way to just pile on more boost, even if you can. You can of course do it, if your turbos have the capacity, but it's not safe or reliable.

2. The turbos have no boost left in them at all at these power levels. Turbos don't just magically blow as much boost as you want...they have a limit due to the housing, the shape of the turbine, the shape of the outlet, etc. The stock ones seem to be tapped out around here. You could throw all the meth you'd like at it, you're not really getting anymore power out of the stock units.
Are you the guy from leveragedsellout.com? Damn it feels good to be a banker
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      01-27-2015, 08:52 AM   #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AstonMartian777 View Post
Yes, but I can still throw on JB4 on top of ams tune and run meth that has been pretty reliable on other platforms. Thanks ! and btw what boost are you running to achieve these numbers ? Thanks !
I dont know how the JB4 works exactly but I imagine it works based off of a stock map so putting that on top of our tune sounds like a REALLY bad idea. I will find out what boost we are running. Again the boost it runs at redline is lower than the boost it runs at peak torque as its starting to fall off.
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      01-28-2015, 08:31 AM   #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AMS ALPHA View Post
I dont know how the JB4 works exactly but I imagine it works based off of a stock map so putting that on top of our tune sounds like a REALLY bad idea. I will find out what boost we are running. Again the boost it runs at redline is lower than the boost it runs at peak torque as its starting to fall off.
All the BMS does on the S63 TU is trick the Tmap sensor, its a way simpler system than the JB4 as a CAN integrated system was never developed by them for the S63 tu. Thats it so the ECU runs more boost to meet its programed target which after the signal being altered is +2 , +3 psi etc. The ECU then retards timing as needed, and adds fueling to meet its AFR targets. At aggressive settings the ECU rides the knock sensors and maxes out fueling and you need race gas or meth to make up for it. A very bad idea when you have a real tune, but I'm sure someone will do it lol .
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      01-29-2015, 11:34 AM   #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M-bitious View Post
Correct I don't launch, but hard acceleration I do all the time. My car has held up fine with over 700 crank bhp for more than 55,000 km and it still feels like new. My point is that I would be concerned to drive with much more power on stock components. I have already heard of a failed tranny on an M5 with 980 Nm.
See that low end torque is what kills GTRs too as I'm sure AMS will tell you. Just start snapping rods and gears when you let 600+ come on too quick.

Thats why I built it and even now I had them smooth out the low end to have power come on after 3.5rpms

So I'm really curious how the m5/m6 will do with people just beating on it
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      01-29-2015, 11:36 AM   #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmd2003 View Post
All the BMS does on the S63 TU is trick the Tmap sensor, its a way simpler system than the JB4 as a CAN integrated system was never developed by them for the S63 tu. Thats it so the ECU runs more boost to meet its programed target which after the signal being altered is +2 , +3 psi etc. The ECU then retards timing as needed, and adds fueling to meet its AFR targets. At aggressive settings the ECU rides the knock sensors and maxes out fueling and you need race gas or meth to make up for it. A very bad idea when you have a real tune, but I'm sure someone will do it lol .
Agree 1000% lol the reason we were all running JB4s is because we had no real tune lmao why on gods green earth would you pay for a probably 4 figure tune and then just strap on the JB4 to add extra boost on what are probably NEAR maxed out stock turbos lol... If you really wanna bump up a 4 figure tune get turbos lmao.

I'm looking at trading the m4 in and getting a 2013 m6 back Just want to make sure I'm not again stuck in the 600s due to DCT/ Engine limits
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      02-02-2015, 05:50 PM   #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AMS ALPHA View Post
I dont know how the JB4 works exactly but I imagine it works based off of a stock map so putting that on top of our tune sounds like a REALLY bad idea. I will find out what boost we are running. Again the boost it runs at redline is lower than the boost it runs at peak torque as its starting to fall off.
Maybe a boost:rpm map, I requested previously but maybe you missed it....
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      06-18-2015, 12:53 PM   #170
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I don't even have a M5 and Im already done this entire thread lol. Im thinking of selling my X6 Activehybrid and if I do, I'll either pick up a 2013 CLS63 or 2013 M5. With the AMS tune, which one would be faster with just the tune?

I will probably get catless dp and an exhaust down the road but my first mod would 100% be the ecu tune.
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      07-01-2015, 09:51 AM   #171
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Originally Posted by titanle View Post
I don't even have a M5 and Im already done this entire thread lol. Im thinking of selling my X6 Activehybrid and if I do, I'll either pick up a 2013 CLS63 or 2013 M5. With the AMS tune, which one would be faster with just the tune?

I will probably get catless dp and an exhaust down the road but my first mod would 100% be the ecu tune.
Seems the cls63 with a tune is a little quicker than an m5 with a piggyback, not enough info is known about an m5 with tune, on paper it's supposed to be quicker but there has not been many actual 1/4 runs to prove it.....
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      07-01-2015, 10:45 AM   #172
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So far as I heard this tune is not running right
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      07-01-2015, 11:11 AM   #173
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Yes, some have ordered this tune and it does not run right. Check the forums, there are several other tuners with good reviews....
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      07-01-2015, 01:46 PM   #174
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Originally Posted by IANNUZZI View Post
Yes, some have ordered this tune and it does not run right. Check the forums, there are several other tuners with good reviews....
So far I've heard only eurocharged, but then again, no one logged it either.
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      07-01-2015, 03:51 PM   #175
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You gonna tell me AMS tune doesn't run right? Somehow i just don't believe that. I have know Martin from the early AMS days and he tuned three of my cars he is a very good tuner and always gets the most out of a safe tune.
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      07-01-2015, 07:04 PM   #176
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Originally Posted by SakhirM5 View Post
You gonna tell me AMS tune doesn't run right? Somehow i just don't believe that. I have know Martin from the early AMS days and he tuned three of my cars he is a very good tuner and always gets the most out of a safe tune.
Read the forums.
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