Mercedes debuts the brand new 2018 E63 AMG!

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by RaTeD ///M

The F90 is suppose to be north of 700hp while the E63 is like 603hp or something plus the F90 has push button RWD while the AMG has drift mode. IMO I'd hold out for the new M5.

LOL... are you kidding? you mentioned somewhere else (below thread post #38) 625 HP
http://f10.m5post.com/forums/showthr...1332520&page=2

[RaTeD ///M]

Originally Posted by M6-Coupe

LOL... are you kidding? you mentioned somewhere else (below thread post #38) 625 HP
http://f10.m5post.com/forums/showthr...1332520&page=2

I stand corrected but I based that of another poster's comment of 700hp. All I really cared about was the AWD u can easily get 700awhp with mods so whatever power output its comes with I'm not too concerned as its in the 600 range.

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by RaTeD ///M

I stand corrected but I based that of another poster's comment of 700hp. All I really cared about was the AWD u can easily get 700awhp with mods so whatever power output its comes with I'm not too concerned as its in the 600 range.

Well I understand but there is a big difference between factory spec and modification spec. What manufacturers produce, is based on the specification of all components (ie DCT, Diff, Suspension and etc) so basically the power is matched with the transmission / differential capabilities with guarantee of working properly. You can always modify your car at your risk anyways

[RingMeister01]

Originally Posted by RaTeD ///M

I stand corrected but I based that of another poster's comment of 700hp. All I really cared about was the AWD u can easily get 700awhp with mods so whatever power output its comes with I'm not too concerned as its in the 600 range.

Mod spec is irrelevant.

I do not see the F90 out powering the E63s. What it will have as advantage is lower curb weight. Again that great on a track but everyday driving it isn't a standout advantage.

[clar]

The F90 with rear wheel steer would feel considerably more nimble than the Merc.

[bobblehead]

^MB and some testers have said the new E63 steering feel has improved over the last gen. Until somebody actually have driven both new cars, it is way too early to say.

[Vic55]

Originally Posted by bobblehead

^MB and some testers have said the new E63 steering feel has improved over the last gen. Until somebody actually have driven both new cars, it is way too early to say.

If its anything like the GTS or C63 Coupe feel then I would say personally... absolutely its improved but both of these cars are RWD and the AWD systems tend to create heavier understeer (Audi especially).

[URBAN LEGEND]

Originally Posted by RingMeister01

Mod spec is irrelevant.

I do not see the F90 out powering the E63s. What it will have as advantage is lower curb weight. Again that great on a track but everyday driving it isn't a standout advantage.

Please tell me why. I'm dying to know why the E63 won't be outpowered. It's not like the F10 has about 660 engine ponies.

[M6-Coupe]

Looks like there is a new competitor for E63 AMG out there... well at least they claim... Lexus GS F

"The 2016 Lexus GS F has better overall handling performance than the 2016 Mercedes-AMG E63S (with ESC off)."

http://www.lexus.com/models/GSF

[RingMeister01]

Originally Posted by M6-Coupe

Looks like there is a new competitor for E63 AMG out there... well at least they claim... Lexus GS F

"The 2016 Lexus GS F has better overall handling performance than the 2016 Mercedes-AMG E63S (with ESC off)."

http://www.lexus.com/models/GSF

To bad the motor isn't anywhere in the same league as the rest of the competition.

[Vic55]

Originally Posted by M6-Coupe

Looks like there is a new competitor for E63 AMG out there... well at least they claim... Lexus GS F

"The 2016 Lexus GS F has better overall handling performance than the 2016 Mercedes-AMG E63S (with ESC off)."

http://www.lexus.com/models/GSF

LOL the (Lexus) is a slowwwww asss car. I borrowed one for a week and I think that's one review that Lexus has to hang their laurels on.

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by Vic55

LOL the (Lexus) is a slowwwww asss car. I borrowed one for a week and I think that's one review that Lexus has to hang their laurels on.

I test drove the RCF last year. It was slow and heavy. I even felt the weight more than M6 while is about 200 lb lighter. As expected the transmission was slow and suspension was not as sharp as BMW... BUT we have to admit that Japanese cars are getting better and better ...

[clar]

Originally Posted by M6-Coupe

I test drove the RCF last year. It was slow and heavy. I even felt the weight more than M6 while is about 200 lb lighter. As expected the transmission was slow and suspension was not as sharp as BMW... BUT we have to admit that Japanese cars are getting better and better ...

The problem is we keeping saying they are getting and better, but they are still a long way off...

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by clar

The problem is we keeping saying they are getting and better, but they are still a long way off...

Well you are right but the problem is the comparison type ...
I don't know why they want to compare RCF or ISF with M3/M4 or C63 AMG
The same thing with GSF to be compared with E63 or M5...
RCF must be compared with 440, ISF must be compared with 340 and GSF must be compared with BMW 550 or MB E550... then Lexus can compete and to be honest with you I might take GSF over 550

[Vic55]

Originally Posted by clar

The problem is we keeping saying they are getting and better, but they are still a long way off...

You are right--- they have always been behind and their intent from the ISF (which I owned) was to go after the M and AMG variants back in the day; not their lesser counter parts. The GSF and RCF are no different- I know first hand that their intent (Lexus) was never to go after lesser models (I have had a long long term relationship with TMC and LMC)

[clar]

Many of those other manufacturers always come in with their guns blazing and proclaiming that they want to take on the 3/5 series, or worst, their M variants. They do not fully comprehend the challenge of taking on BMW in that market segment. Those BMWs have pedigree on their side and have been continuously refined and improved over generations. The intricate balance of comfort, sportiness, and performance is almost second to none. Merc is probably the only viable challenger to BMW with the rest being also rans hoping to snare some disgruntled BMW buyers, or people who just want to be different from the best. Infinity used to be treated with great respect by BMW, but they have fallen off the curve in a pretty big way. Audi has never been up to scratch and always resorting to fancy interior to win over buyers. Porsche is stronger in some areas, but they belong to a higher strata. I expect the next generation of M cars to take a bigger leap forward as the previous leap was a little lack lustre. Time to put some more distance over the rest...

[Phatcat]

Originally Posted by clar

Many of those other manufacturers always come in with their guns blazing and proclaiming that they want to take on the 3/5 series, or worst, their M variants. They do not fully comprehend the challenge of taking on BMW in that market segment. Those BMWs have pedigree on their side and have been continuously refined and improved over generations. The intricate balance of comfort, sportiness, and performance is almost second to none. Merc is probably the only viable challenger to BMW with the rest being also rans hoping to snare some disgruntled BMW buyers, or people who just want to be different from the best. Infinity used to be treated with great respect by BMW, but they have fallen off the curve in a pretty big way. Audi has never been up to scratch and always resorting to fancy interior to win over buyers. Porsche is stronger in some areas, but they belong to a higher strata. I expect the next generation of M cars to take a bigger leap forward as the previous leap was a little lack lustre. Time to put some more distance over the rest...

Can't completely agree with you on this though. If this is what Toyota thought, they would have never created the brand Lexus to take on the German luxury brands. At the time people thought they were crazy too, that they don't know what they were doing and wouldn't be successful.

Maybe it's over their head to try to take on the Germans in the performance sedan segment, but it's a certain failure if they don't even try.

[clar]

Originally Posted by Phatcat

Can't completely agree with you on this though. If this is what Toyota thought, they would have never created the brand Lexus to take on the German luxury brands. At the time people thought they were crazy too, that they don't know what they were doing and wouldn't be successful.

Maybe it's over their head to try to take on the Germans in the performance sedan segment, but it's a certain failure if they don't even try.

It's certainly not what they thought, but it's the reality today. Having said that, I look forward to any manufacturer entering the arena. Competition is always good.

[bobblehead]

So the gsf has been in the market for a yr or 2 now and I have yet to see one on the road where I lived (largest city in Canada). Lol.

[Phatcat]

Originally Posted by bobblehead

So the gsf has been in the market for a yr or 2 now and I have yet to see one on the road where I lived (largest city in Canada). Lol.

Can't argue with that, I have never seen one either.

[stealth.pilot]

Originally Posted by Phatcat

Can't completely agree with you on this though. If this is what Toyota thought, they would have never created the brand Lexus to take on the German luxury brands. At the time people thought they were crazy too, that they don't know what they were doing and wouldn't be successful.

Maybe it's over their head to try to take on the Germans in the performance sedan segment, but it's a certain failure if they don't even try.

They have also been very successful at it.

You got to remember that most people are buying 330i and 530i. Lexus can compete with these and either give you 6 cylinder for a 4 cylinder price with more standard equipment.

It's the high end the Japanese struggle with, and largely because they know the margins are better if you have fewer more mainstream products, so they don't bother to invest. Cars like the GSF don't represent their R&D effort in performance, there is no R&D. These are F models are not much more than trim packages.

[stealth.pilot]

Originally Posted by bobblehead

So the gsf has been in the market for a yr or 2 now and I have yet to see one on the road where I lived (largest city in Canada). Lol.

We can laugh, but look at the used prices in the US. These cars are in short supply and hold their value extremely well!

I wish BMW and Mercedes managed production counts as well.