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      03-24-2012, 06:57 PM   #45
///M1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sparkyg View Post
Yeah its a no cost option. I'd advise against after 4 years in a manual M3.

The DCT is so good its not needed and for a large family car with a twin turbo V8 engine there just is no need. In addition resale will be a bitch.
I hear you, while I agree that DCT is probably more optimal (and certainly faster), i am such a die hard manual guy, that I honestly don't see myself going to any form of 'automated manual' any time soon, even with the great advancements in its technology. Just chalk me up as one of the old school dinosaurs (even though I am in my 30s).

As far as secondary pricing, it is really tough to say what impact it will have. The E60 M5 is not a great example IMO as: 1). The 6-spd manual was developed as an afterthought (in fact never really developed for the car but rather parts binned), 2). The well-documented fiasco in the earlier (IIRC 07 MY) 6-speed cars where TC couldn't be disabled, 3). The V10 visceral high RPM but (relatively) low tq engine made the manual a rather pointless option.

Here in the F10 M5, engine characteristics/elasticity are very different such that a manual would be great IMO given the low end Tq and wider every-day 'operating' range of the engine. FWIW, speaking to a BMW official last yr he told me the manual tranny is closer to that of a Nascar car and was specifically developed from the ground up for the M5 (not seen any specs so far though). Lastly, the fairly limited take rate (my assumption) would guarantee there are not that many manuals in existence, so very tough to say if secondary pricing would suffer dramatically. It may have a cult following for it being the last manual M5 (maybe not to the degree of the last air-cooled Porsche, but nevertheless).

In my case, I keep my cars for very long, do euro delivery and my dealer charges a minuscule amount over ED invoice given my relationship with the outfit, so roughly 15% below MSRP is likely what I am looking at with at least a 6yr holding horizon. Thus I am less 'sensitive' to price drops as most of that occurs in the first years of ownership, but it would be interesting to see how the manuals hold up relative to the DCTs, I guess only time will tell
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      03-24-2012, 09:27 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M1 View Post
I hear you, while I agree that DCT is probably more optimal (and certainly faster), i am such a die hard manual guy, that I honestly don't see myself going to any form of 'automated manual' any time soon, even with the great advancements in its technology. Just chalk me up as one of the old school dinosaurs (even though I am in my 30s).

As far as secondary pricing, it is really tough to say what impact it will have. The E60 M5 is not a great example IMO as: 1). The 6-spd manual was developed as an afterthought (in fact never really developed for the car but rather parts binned), 2). The well-documented fiasco in the earlier (IIRC 07 MY) 6-speed cars where TC couldn't be disabled, 3). The V10 visceral high RPM but (relatively) low tq engine made the manual a rather pointless option.

Here in the F10 M5, engine characteristics/elasticity are very different such that a manual would be great IMO given the low end Tq and wider every-day 'operating' range of the engine. FWIW, speaking to a BMW official last yr he told me the manual tranny is closer to that of a Nascar car and was specifically developed from the ground up for the M5 (not seen any specs so far though). Lastly, the fairly limited take rate (my assumption) would guarantee there are not that many manuals in existence, so very tough to say if secondary pricing would suffer dramatically. It may have a cult following for it being the last manual M5 (maybe not to the degree of the last air-cooled Porsche, but nevertheless).

In my case, I keep my cars for very long, do euro delivery and my dealer charges a minuscule amount over ED invoice given my relationship with the outfit, so roughly 15% below MSRP is likely what I am looking at with at least a 6yr holding horizon. Thus I am less 'sensitive' to price drops as most of that occurs in the first years of ownership, but it would be interesting to see how the manuals hold up relative to the DCTs, I guess only time will tell
You and I are similar, 100% agree with everything you said. I am an ultra die hard manual fan and in my mid thirties. I fear that just as I am entering a point in my life where I can afford the toys I dreamed about they are negating the MT on almost everything. I am ecstatic with BMW's decision to bring the M5 in MT to Canada as I will definitely be placing my order for fall delivery (hope to do an ED). I learnt how to drive on manual cars and have had the occasional auto (shared with parents) but most of my own cars have been MT except for the God awful SMG in my old M5 (2008) - I tried the paddles, gone after 1 year. Ever single MT car I have had sold at close to asking price and I usually keep them for 2-4 years. I can also guarantee you that they all sold above "market value". I take care of my toys and people notice and appreciate that. I have also found that when you have an MT car they are so unique that they stand out and while the market may not be flooded with them there are people looking for them and like my dad always told me you just need one buyer to sell your item - just takes patience.

I always go back to my motorcycle an example of value and perceived resale. When I bought my K1300R they told me that resale would be a b*tch and only get it if you plan on keeping it for life or taking a huge hit. "The US stopped importing them they sell sold so badly" the rep tells me. Well last week I posted it in preparation of the new baby on the way (no time and need garage space for F10 M5). I bought it for 20k and sold it for 15k after 3 years of ownership and low KMs (will miss it). I had originally taken it to BMW and they told me "this is awful for resale we will give you 10k" but ironically all their inventory was depleted. The guy I sold it too had been looking for exact bike I loved so much - done. I think the same thing will apply for manual because at the end of the day a die hard manual driver is just like me, a die hard.

I am starting to get to a point in my life now where its not about "resale", my cars are definitely not investments. Its about experience and making me happy - making me feel good about all the dang sacrifices needed to get to the point where I could afford them. If you bought and loved it there surely is someone else that will too.
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      03-24-2012, 10:26 PM   #47
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I understand what you guys are saying. Hopefully your future with a std M5 works for you.

It will be rare, I agree with you there too.
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