Toyota GT86 by Chris Harris

[stefan]

Originally Posted by mmm def

We NEED more cheap rwd options out there.

Agreed. So does Kia, apparently. Anyway a good RWD system is more fun than AWD any day.

[mmm def]

Originally Posted by stefan

Agreed. So does Kia, apparently. Anyway a good RWD system is more fun than AWD any day.

hey if it gets the other guys out there to start building a little more interesting cars, I'm all for it.

[MikeyV]

Originally Posted by Levi

Whose fault is it that I am going to buy the GT86/BRZ? BMW's, because they have no Z2, I'have been waiting for this car so long and I doubt we'll see it soon, because BMW only builds cars that sell, and they know an underpowered (245 PS) BMW Z2 will not sell.

I'm sure if BMW built a Z2 even a 200hp Z2 it would sell like hot cakes, if it was priced correctly. In Europe they's probably sell a truck load with diesel engines as well.

[rfx45]

Originally Posted by MikeyV

I'm sure if BMW built a Z2 even a 200hp Z2 it would sell like hot cakes, if it was priced correctly. In Europe they's probably sell a truck load with diesel engines as well.

200hp seems too close to Z4's current 240hp 28i, isn't it? And doesn't the 20i only have 180hp? A lighter Z2 with more power for less money will surely cut the Z4 sales drastically, I'm not sure they'd want to do that.

Maybe if it were lighter and had 160-170hp similar to the Miata, then it might be more logical?

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by rfx45

200hp seems too close to Z4's current 240hp 28i, isn't it? And doesn't the 20i only have 180hp? A lighter Z2 with more power for less money will surely cut the Z4 sales drastically, I'm not sure they'd want to do that.

Maybe if it were lighter and had 160-170hp similar to the Miata, then it might be more logical?

My guess would be that BMW would rather have a sporty car that sells, unlike the current Z4. Beautiful, but bizarro pricing that puts it way, way, way too close to the massively better current Boxster, not to mention the new Boxster which was recently revealed.

Personally, BMW has no grounds to be in the $60k+ sports car market, especially without an M on it.

[M3_WC]

Interesting to see the Top Gear guys trash the styling of the GT86 on Sunday's episode.

[rfx45]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

My guess would be that BMW would rather have a sporty car that sells, unlike the current Z4. Beautiful, but bizarro pricing that puts it way, way, way too close to the massively better current Boxster, not to mention the new Boxster which was recently revealed.

Personally, BMW has no grounds to be in the $60k+ sports car market, especially without an M on it.

How badly are the sales number for the current Z4s?

I mean to be honest, unless the Z2 has a much more attractive price tag (~$35k?) then I don't see it selling too well either even if it is more sporty. I mean if the Z2 starts at $40k-$45k with about 160-170 hp with less features, even if it is lighter and performs better, I just don't see it flying off the lot with the MX5 still in the market and the Toyobaru coming out soon that would offer the same driving experience (maybe better?) for a fraction of the price.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by rfx45

How badly are the sales number for the current Z4s?

I mean to be honest, unless the Z2 has a much more attractive price tag (~$35k?) then I don't see it selling too well either even if it is more sporty. I mean if the Z2 starts at $40k-$45k with about 160-170 hp with less features, even if it is lighter and performs better, I just don't see it flying off the lot with the MX5 still in the market and the Toyobaru coming out soon that would offer the same driving experience (maybe better?) for a fraction of the price.

I've heard that Z4 sales are below their goals, and I rarely see the current Z4, I have no hard facts though.

I'm not sure why they'd give a Z2 less than the current 2.0T with 240 hp, as it's already in the $35k F30. Possibly for ROW, it could receive the detuned version of the N20, but I can't see that happening in the US.

I owned a Miata when the Z3 was out, and only fell for the M Coupe because it was so different than the Miata. I've never felt that the Z cars have anything compelling about them. On the cheaper side, the Miata has always been lighter, sportier and had better race support. On the upper side, the Boxster has always been the clearly superior sports car, with more utility and again, more racing support. The SLK has always had the cush side of things covered better too. I think BMW's just not all that good at competing in this class unless it just goes for the screwball factor like the previous M Coupes.

[Robert]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

I've heard that Z4 sales are below their goals, and I rarely see the current Z4, I have no hard facts though.

I'm not sure why they'd give a Z2 less than the current 2.0T with 240 hp, as it's already in the $35k F30. Possibly for ROW, it could receive the detuned version of the N20, but I can't see that happening in the US.

I owned a Miata when the Z3 was out, and only fell for the M Coupe because it was so different than the Miata. I've never felt that the Z cars have anything compelling about them. On the cheaper side, the Miata has always been lighter, sportier and had better race support. On the upper side, the Boxster has always been the clearly superior sports car, with more utility and again, more racing support. The SLK has always had the cush side of things covered better too. I think BMW's just not all that good at competing in this class unless it just goes for the screwball factor like the previous M Coupes.

There are people out there it will kill them to drive a Mazda

[rfx45]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

I'm not sure why they'd give a Z2 less than the current 2.0T with 240 hp, as it's already in the $35k F30. Possibly for ROW, it could receive the detuned version of the N20, but I can't see that happening in the US.

I owned a Miata when the Z3 was out, and only fell for the M Coupe because it was so different than the Miata. I've never felt that the Z cars have anything compelling about them. On the cheaper side, the Miata has always been lighter, sportier and had better race support. On the upper side, the Boxster has always been the clearly superior sports car, with more utility and again, more racing support. The SLK has always had the cush side of things covered better too. I think BMW's just not all that good at competing in this class unless it just goes for the screwball factor like the previous M Coupes.

Like I said, BMW might not want the Z2 sales to cut the Z4s? This just a speculation but if a cheaper, lighter roadster with similar hp comes out, then why would people buy the Z4? Kind of like what Porsche is doing with the Cayman/Bpxster, they don't want to make it match the 911s power because they know their 911 buyers will decrease if that happens. I guess I'm just thinking in terms of business, you don't want your product to compete with your existing one.

The current Z4 seems to be the perfect balance between the Boxster and SLK. I own one so many may think I am biased it has become more comfortable and less "sporty" in comparison to the E85/E86 but still sportier than the SLK. It also offer plenty of amenities and features for the price so it will appeal more to the casual buyer looking for a roadster than an enthusiast who prefer to track the car once in a while.

I test drove all 3 and with similar options on the Z4 I got, the Boxster would have been easily $10k+ more plus I am not too fond of the soft top convertible. The SLK also cost $5k more before any options andwith the same options it also reached $10k-$12k+ more. It does have more power but the times are very close to the Z4 even with 60 less hp and the Z4 simply drove better, to me anyways. So I think there is a market for it, not to mention that the new N20 engine does improve fuel efficiency, not a main selling point for me but people go crazy for good mpg vehicles these days.

So I think the current Z4 has a market, maybe it just isn't being advertised more? I've never seen a commercial for it to be honest. It's a good balance of daily driving and sportiness once you hit the sport mode on. Plus it is definitely the best looking roadster with both the top up or down.

[richardg]

I have been looking into this car a lot lately. I would really like the idea of a smaller more intimate car than the e92m, but a Porsche is not financially feasible for me and I've had enough e36 coupes. I do wish it had another 20-30hp but this car should be a blast. My next vehicle will either be the F82M or I will keep the e92 and purchase the toyabaru. I am not sure which one I like aesthetically more though. I am unaware if there are any differences between them. I guess it would come down to who has a better warranty, Toyota or Subaru. If I do ever purchase one I think I would want to get it up to around 260-280hp with a mechanical lsd.

[rfx45]

Originally Posted by richardg

I am unaware if there are any differences between them. I guess it would come down to who has a better warranty, Toyota or Subaru. If I do ever purchase one I think I would want to get it up to around 260-280hp with a mechanical lsd.

From the reviews, it seems the Subaru is firmer and the Toyota (Scion in the US ) has a softer ride.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by rfx45

From the reviews, it seems the Subaru is firmer and the Toyota (Scion in the US ) has a softer ride.

I've read the opposite, and that the Subie has more inherent understeer because it has softer shock valving and the same springs as the Scion. Since they're handicapping both cars with the stupid Prius tires, I'm sure many folks will be swapping out rubber and suspension anyway for something more aggressive.

[rfx45]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

I've read the opposite, and that the Subie has more inherent understeer because it has softer shock valving and the same springs as the Scion. Since they're handicapping both cars with the stupid Prius tires, I'm sure many folks will be swapping out rubber and suspension anyway for something more aggressive.

Or that, just remember reading it from Autoblogs review:

The Toyota/Scion version has softer suspension settings up front, harder settings in the rear.

But yeah, either way, most people who track this car will change wheels/tires anyways so in the end it's not a big deal.