Impressed by the M5, and disappointed by other cars

[Rob///M5]

Originally Posted by Northern X5M

When I ordered my first M5, I just about had a nervous break down about which transmission to pick. 6MT? DCT? 6MT? DCT? 6MT? DCT? 6MT? DCT? 6MT? DCT? 6MT? DCT? 6MT? DCT? 6MT? DCT? 6MT? DCT? 6MT? DCT? 6MT? DCT? 6MT? DCT? 6MT? DCT? 6MT? DCT? 6MT? DCT? 6MT? DCT? 6MT? DCT? 6MT? DCT? 6MT? DCT? 6MT? DCT? 6MT? DCT? 6MT? DCT? 6MT? DCT? 6MT? DCT? 6MT? DCT? 6MT? DCT? 6MT? DCT? 6MT? DCT? 6MT? DCT? 6MT? DCT? 6MT? DCT? 6MT? DCT?

I went with the DCT.

Now here I am on the verge of ordering a Competition Package M5, and again I am facing the dilemma of 6MT or DCT. DCT is amazing, but I am finding my driving experience missing something. My worst fear is that I get a 6MT and I hate it. As the DCT is not a bad choice to live with. LOL. I love my E39 and I think that... well the F10 6MT experience can't be worse than that.

I drove the 6MT at COTA...trust me, you want the DCT. PM me if you want my honest opinion.

[ColdList]

Originally Posted by Rob///M5

I drove the 6MT at COTA...trust me, you want the DCT. PM me if you want my honest opinion.

What? Are you posting your dishonest one here Rob?!-hahahahahahahahaha!

I hear ya too man. I drove my DCT and a 6MT M5 around all day a few months ago and mine just felt so much sportier and quick. The 6MT in the M5 is not a short throw and really not a very positive shift fell IMO.

[uhn2000]

Originally Posted by Rob///M5

I drove the 6MT at COTA...trust me, you want the DCT. PM me if you want my honest opinion.

Originally Posted by ColdList

What? Are you posting your dishonest one here Rob?!-hahahahahahahahaha!

I hear ya too man. I drove my DCT and a 6MT M5 around all day a few months ago and mine just felt so much sportier and quick. The 6MT in the M5 is not a short throw and really not a very positive shift fell IMO.

How about an actual owner chime in (sorry couldn't resist )

If you are going to order the F10 M5 in MT you need to be ready for a few things. 1st you need the short shit kit from IND, a must, absolute must! 2nd because this is a turbo charged engine you really feel the lag and need to learn to drive around it if you are heal/toeing (it has a rev matching optin and it works );basically DCT hides the turbo lag very well with fast shifts both up and down. 3rd you need to be very comfortable with limited resale. 4th you need to understand that this is very big sedan, huge and heavy but very powerful. If you can imagine yourself driving a 7 series with a MT then get the 6MT M5.

In MT its a cool car that is fun to drive around. I had hoped that I would keep this M5 as my 4 door hauler forever but this car needs a massive diet, exhaust, and better steering. Regardless of transmission BMW missed the boat in some areas and "fixed" some with the comp pack. Looking forward to everyone's review of the 2014s.

[ColdList]

Originally Posted by uhn2000

How about an actual owner chime in (sorry couldn't resist )

Touche'!

[mainly]

i dont get these comments about all the torque in any gear in the m5. 3rd gear must be broken in mine. lol. cause if i m in 3rd gear or higher and press the gas, theres pretty much no response, other than teh sound of bog, unless of course the transmission downshifts to 2nd.(which all but requires your foot to the flloor)

and the full torque from 1500 rpm is absolute nonsense. only applies if your in 1st or second gear. try hammering the gas at 1500 rpm in 3rd or 4th gear and tell me theres torque. balony.

[RPiM5]

Originally Posted by ufgtrs2007

I've come to the conclusion that the M5 is the best car at 100K, to drive another car of similar performance and feel, you have to spend 140k+ (porsche GT3, Audi R8 V10, etc.).

^^^ This.

[efm9821]

Originally Posted by Rob///M5

I drove a 991S and was bored to tears. Agree that the PDK in that car is not as good as the M-DCT.

Next, I got in a manual Boxtser Spyder. I know Boxsters suck. Except the Spyder is not a typical Boxster. That car blew (still blows) my mind. I bought it. It's 180 degrees from the M5. No torque, but the best handling car I've ever driven. In fact, it's the most fun car I've ever owned. It gets driven while the M5 sits and loses battery voltage. Of course, the Spyder doesn't even have a roof, so can't compete as the only car someone would own.

So, the GT3 is of great interest for me. But only if the car is as raw as the Spyder, and PDK-S is truly fast. Videos seem to indicate that it will be.

Regardless, the M5 is an amazing car and I agree the best all rounder out there.

I had a chance to drive the majority of Porsche line up on Barber Motorsports track a few weeks ago. When I got in each car, I have to admit, the power and torque were linear with that torque hitting early like our M5's. I wanted to like the 997 but in the end it was not what I hoped it would be. Panamera was isolated from the road, no thanks! HOWEVER, the Boxter S amazed me in how light the chassis was and responsive the entire vehicle was to the modest of inputs. I then followed that experience with a run on Atlanta Motorsports Park with a 2014 Cayman S ... wow! I now have one on order as a garage mate to my F10 M5 .. the E46 M3 (track car) will be replaced by the Cayman. I realize the M5 and the Cayman are totally different cars and thus I'll get to enjoy the best of both worlds! I will say BMW has to watch out for Porsche in the weight category ...

[Vic55]

Originally Posted by Bimmer6

Interesting points, and I agree with most on the comparison. However, they're two different cars. I have both, and at first I said why did I buy the 911S because of the torque difference. The 911 has to be in the higher revs, but it gets there quick, and I have the 7 speed manual which I love to drive. The M5 I have the DCT, but I have been spending more time in the Porsche as the feel is second to none. By the way if you look at the track time on the new 991S compared to the previous GT3 they're pretty close.

The Porsche is for my alone time, and I want to ride through the twisties, and it's a beautiful car to say the least. Long term I will keep the Porsche longer than M5 just for the driving feel, and the engine sound is insane. Just my two cents. I have less than 4000 miles on the M5, and 500 on the Porsche so more testing to be done.

Interesting that you and I- being owners of both have the same feeling. Ill be honest when I first test drove the C4S I thought the same thing as the OP but then realized Im driving the car wrong. And I had the wrong settings as well... the car in sport plus is a dynamic normal air breathing machine with only 400 hp and 325 tq yet can run 0-60 in 3.5-3.8 over and over with a simple launch control program- and trap over 118... so the car truly gets the power the ground and yes its lighter but the trap speeds spells a different story.

I love my M cars for straighline speed but thats where it ends- the 991 chassis is not even comparable to the F10 or F13. I dont know how the 2 cars can be even compared, different pricing segment and different roles regarding driveability and function. The sport seats (yes its a pricey upgrade) speak real sports car bolstering in all parts of the body. The steering, albeit electronic, is pin point with no understeed into 100 mph turns. The engine is now considered mid-rear mount and the balance can be felt. Today I was driving the crap out of it at 130mph in a high speed turn and actually felt more comfortable than I do in my R8 in the same turn.

As mentioned above the sound in the Pcar stock is amazing- its a screamer and not hushed up. No need for a 4k axle back exhaust and even then the F10 or F13 is not as loud. (I got the Porsche Sport Exhaust).... I have the PDK and its the same as my past Turbo 997 with PDK but this PDK has an enourmous thrust from 1st to 2nd gear at 8k rpms--- its awesome and its all part of the software. You know when you are driving this car- its not as fast as my M6 which was faster than my M5 but it sounds better- much better and handling is not even worth my time typing. Is a far more visceral machine and for those of you who have owned a rear engine car and understand chassis dynamics and how you can really learn to be a great drive; this is an awesome car.

But like I said they serve two different purposes. And I speak from experience/ownership and not just a test drive. Drive the car, but really drive the car. If you want a simple mash and go car with some handling characterisitics the M5 is your choice all day long.

Cell Phone

[RPiM5]

Originally Posted by efm9821

I will say BMW has to watch out for Porsche in the weight category ...

I think BMW is getting ready to answer Porsche in this regard with the F82 M4. I'm guessing with Carbon Ceramic Brakes and the Carbon Fiber Roof a curb weight of nearly 3,300lbs.

[RPiM5]

Originally Posted by Vic55

Today I was driving the crap out of it at 130mph in a high speed turn

Beautiful on both accounts!

[RPiM5]

A appreciate Porsche's and I have never driven one actually, but all I know is that the F10 M5 handles like a 4,300lbs car that has absolutely no business handling the way it does, which is amazing to me. I got to feel what I'm talking about this past weekend. Man I love the M5!

[dhirm5]

Originally Posted by Vic55

Gorgeous. I love the 991. I need a third garage slot.

[Hothonda]

[Bimmer6]

Originally Posted by ColdList

Thanks man. I do appreciate that but after driving the wife's M6 I just have to have one. Makes my M5 seem a lot less sporty. Not to take away from the M5. I absolutely LOVE my car. I just want to get myself something a bit more engaging that I can throw around corners easier and drive the heck out of. Really everything about it just feels a lot more fun to me. It sits lower, you sit lower in it, it corners better, etc. It is just more of a driver's car IMHO. I know some M5 owners may not agree but to each his own. Two diff cars each with their own advantages and uniquely enjoyable features. I just don't really need a sedan since I have a super crew truck and since my wife has the F12 it just is not ok for her to have the more fun car-lol! The comp. pkg. should be a really nice mix of everything. Very excited. Already have a sweet set of ADV7.0 Track Spec SL wheels sitting in my office waiting on her arrival and a full Vorsteiner Aero Kit (supposed to be the very first one with the exception of the one EAS got early to show) on order.

-Mike

p.s. A "check" magnet is right with the Porsche! I was building the new Turbo (non-"S") on line and I was mid $170s even with leaving out some options-yikes! I am hoping that when it does come out in December that I don't even tempt myself into driving one-could be extremely dangerous to my checkbook.

Spot on again, and funny I use to live on SOCAL also so many things in common. Just drove the Porsche 100 miles me and my 17 year old we had a ball. He prefers the quiet of th M5, and that's his choice. As you mentioned two different cars love them both, but Jekyll and Hyde to say the least. I didn't go PDK all manual this go around 7 gears by the very nice on the HWY with pull.

[mainly]

Originally Posted by Vic55

Interesting that you and I- being owners of both have the same feeling. Ill be honest when I first test drove the C4S I thought the same thing as the OP but then realized Im driving the car wrong. And I had the wrong settings as well... the car in sport plus is a dynamic normal air breathing machine with only 400 hp and 325 tq yet can run 0-60 in 3.5-3.8 over and over with a simple launch control program- and trap over 118... so the car truly gets the power the ground and yes its lighter but the trap speeds spells a different story.

I love my M cars for straighline speed but thats where it ends- the 991 chassis is not even comparable to the F10 or F13. I dont know how the 2 cars can be even compared, different pricing segment and different roles regarding driveability and function. The sport seats (yes its a pricey upgrade) speak real sports car bolstering in all parts of the body. The steering, albeit electronic, is pin point with no understeed into 100 mph turns. The engine is now considered mid-rear mount and the balance can be felt. Today I was driving the crap out of it at 130mph in a high speed turn and actually felt more comfortable than I do in my R8 in the same turn.

As mentioned above the sound in the Pcar stock is amazing- its a screamer and not hushed up. No need for a 4k axle back exhaust and even then the F10 or F13 is not as loud. (I got the Porsche Sport Exhaust).... I have the PDK and its the same as my past Turbo 997 with PDK but this PDK has an enourmous thrust from 1st to 2nd gear at 8k rpms--- its awesome and its all part of the software. You know when you are driving this car- its not as fast as my M6 which was faster than my M5 but it sounds better- much better and handling is not even worth my time typing. Is a far more visceral machine and for those of you who have owned a rear engine car and understand chassis dynamics and how you can really learn to be a great drive; this is an awesome car.

But like I said they serve two different purposes. And I speak from experience/ownership and not just a test drive. Drive the car, but really drive the car. If you want a simple mash and go car with some handling characterisitics the M5 is your choice all day long.

Cell Phone

thanks a lot. before reading your post i was considering just paying off my m5, and saving a bit of money. now i have to get the 991.

it will be the 991 gt3 for me. or if one isnt available, at the very least the 991 s with powerkit.

[Vic55]

Originally Posted by mainly

thanks a lot. before reading your post i was considering just paying off my m5, and saving a bit of money. now i have to get the 991.

it will be the 991 gt3 for me. or if one isnt available, at the very least the 991 s with powerkit.

Ok so lets say the GT3 is not available, dump the powerkit on the normal 991 (its only an 8 hp bump and costs an arm and a leg) and instead do a full Fabspeed Exhaust system (header back)- you can circa 30 hp and 30 tq in the low ranges and then 25 hp and tq in the highs... and its only 2500 bucks.

[mainly]

Originally Posted by Vic55

Ok so lets say the GT3 is not available, dump the powerkit on the normal 991 (its only an 8 hp bump and costs an arm and a leg) and instead do a full Fabspeed Exhaust system (header back)- you can circa 30 hp and 30 tq in the low ranges and then 25 hp and tq in the highs... and its only 2500 bucks.

huh?

powerkit is +30 hp

and includes the sport exhaust and PDK, which is 7-8K in options

[Vic55]

Originally Posted by RPiM5

Beautiful on both accounts!

Thanks HomeySlice (that means cool dude on the M5 boards)- I figured you would appreciate my desire to violate mexican toll roads on a daily basis... Viva La Germania

[Vic55]

Originally Posted by mainly

huh?

powerkit is +30 hp

and includes the sport exhaust and PDK, which is 7-8K in options

crap my bad, I read a sticker wrong---- yes thats the ticket... 30hp but you can get that for much less than 17800 usd..... but the warranty does come with the PK so its not a bad choice.

PDK alone is 4080 and a Fab speed X pipe with side muffler bypass is 1995 plus install but very easy to do (1 hour)... you get the exhaust note, pdk, and hp for this. Now this is for those who dont pre order their car.

[mainly]

Originally Posted by Vic55

crap my bad, I read a sticker wrong---- yes thats the ticket... 30hp but you can get that for much less than 17800 usd..... but the warranty does come with the PK so its not a bad choice.

PDK alone is 4080 and a Fab speed X pipe with side muffler bypass is 1995 plus install but very easy to do (1 hour)... you get the exhaust note, pdk, and hp for this. Now this is for those who dont pre order their car.

yes i know the powerkit is still not exactly a bargain. but doing those mods, particulary headers would be playing around with the warranty, i bet .

which is why id go for the gt3 instead, it has everything id option the 911s with for a few $K more, and more power again.

the way i look at it, equally optioned, the gt3 is an extra 3-5 k but with an extra 45 hp! thats huge.

[Bimmer6]

Originally Posted by mainly

yes i know the powerkit is still not exactly a bargain. but doing those mods, particulary headers would be playing around with the warranty, i bet .

which is why id go for the gt3 instead, it has everything id option the 911s with for a few $K more, and more power again.

the way i look at it, equally optioned, the gt3 is an extra 3-5 k but with an extra 45 hp! thats huge.

Good look finding a GT3 the list is crazy here in the US, and mark up is sick if you can find a deal? To pay MSRP would be a dream here.

[tico12]

Vic55,

M5 & C4S are my 2 favorites...so fortunate to have them both at the same time.

What kind/size wheels are you running and is there a factory rear spoiler lip?

Recently spent 3 days driving 991 fully sideways at Porsche Winter Driving School. Amazing experience in this truly iconic car.