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      05-03-2011, 12:57 PM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hks786 View Post
.
and hks, you really don't get it. BMW spent years building up the M brand and how their formula for a sport sedan is the winning recipe, making them the "ultimate driving machine." Well, with introductions like the new m5 and m3, they have undercut all their core beliefs and pillars that have upheld the m division and brand. Do you understand? they are hypocrites. Major major hypocrites. they dumped everything that made m cars special all for money. this is equivalent to porsche dumping the rear engine platform, blackberry dumping enterprise email, apple ditching the iphone or ipod, or toyota making prius gas guzzlers (imagine the outrage).

m should really just continue what they have been doing, which is very similar to apple's strategy. they both work. make products the way they see fit (NA, high revving). then continue to talk shit on every other product other there (like when they shit talk fwd). and claim you are the best (ultimate driving machine). m and apple have been wildly successful at doing that. why change what works?
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      05-03-2011, 01:06 PM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crackberry View Post
and hks, you really don't get it. BMW spent years building up the M brand and how their formula for a sport sedan is the winning recipe, making them the "ultimate driving machine." Well, with introductions like the new m5 and m3, they have undercut all their core beliefs and pillars that have upheld the m division and brand. Do you understand? they are hypocrites. Major major hypocrites. they dumped everything that made m cars special all for money. this is equivalent to porsche dumping the rear engine platform, blackberry dumping enterprise email, apple ditching the iphone or ipod, or toyota making prius gas guzzlers (imagine the outrage).

m should really just continue what they have been doing, which is very similar to apple's strategy. they both work. make products the way they see fit (NA, high revving). then continue to talk shit on every other product other there (like when they shit talk fwd). and claim you are the best (ultimate driving machine). m and apple have been wildly successful at doing that. why change what works?
In yr case Porsche shouldn't even offer AWD on 911t since their loyal purists only want RWD. Lambos shouldn't be AWD as well since the original ones were RWD..etc. Has anybody here driven a M5 AWD yet? Thought not. So why is it "bad" or diluted? It is called evolving. Heck, even Ferrari now put AWD on the new FF. Also it is not like BMW is cancelling the RWD version. So technically BMW hasn't really "dumped" anything.
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      05-03-2011, 01:14 PM   #113
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Problem is, who wants to buy the RWD M5 when they know they will be beaten out by the AWD M5 (off the line)... I mean its like the audi R8 V8 and the V10, like the 335i and the 328i it makes buying the RWD a hard decision, hell a few M cars only see the track only. once you throw in some corners the AWD goes UNNNNNNNNDERSTEERING... Snow tires work for me just fine
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BMW have tapped into this by mirroring typical BMW dynamics and steering communication within the new UKL cars.
You mean massive body roll, a steering system that is not connected to the front wheels, and the engine note played through the speaker system?!?!?!?!

Last edited by Wolf; 05-03-2011 at 01:47 PM.
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      05-03-2011, 01:26 PM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crackberry View Post
and hks, you really don't get it. BMW spent years building up the M brand and how their formula for a sport sedan is the winning recipe, making them the "ultimate driving machine." Well, with introductions like the new m5 and m3, they have undercut all their core beliefs and pillars that have upheld the m division and brand. Do you understand? they are hypocrites. Major major hypocrites. they dumped everything that made m cars special all for money. this is equivalent to porsche dumping the rear engine platform, blackberry dumping enterprise email, apple ditching the iphone or ipod, or toyota making prius gas guzzlers (imagine the outrage).

m should really just continue what they have been doing, which is very similar to apple's strategy. they both work. make products the way they see fit (NA, high revving). then continue to talk shit on every other product other there (like when they shit talk fwd). and claim you are the best (ultimate driving machine). m and apple have been wildly successful at doing that. why change what works?
actually you don't get it. there is still a RWD option, some people just want AWD because it makes them happy so BMW decided to please that small percentage of customers.

As for M making engines the way the see fit? thats exactly what they are doing by moving on to FI motors, not much more they could do with NA motors while keeping these cars in the same "price bracket". Also with rising gas prices, M would take HUGE hit if they did not adress the issue of fuel economy. maybe you have deep pockets and gas mean nothing to you but unfortunately that isn't the case for everyone buying M cars. one thing you have to understand with businesses is that as time goes on the market never stays the same, therefore they must adapt in order to survive.

it's pretty damn easy to understand if you take sometime (no more than 5 seconds) to think about it.
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      05-03-2011, 01:54 PM   #115
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this is all about m being hypocrites. they spent years talking up their product about their winning formula and being the ultimate driving machine. that was how they built their brand, and then they dump everything out the window and follow the direction that they have criticized. the difference between porsche and bmw is that porsche didnt spend years criticizing turbos and then create the tt. that is the difference. bmw did, and thats where i fault bmw on.

if porsche can make DI engines that get 26mpg, then i dont see why m cant.
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      05-03-2011, 02:01 PM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crackberry View Post

if porsche can make DI engines that get 26mpg, then i dont see why m cant.
Price?

I'm sure no one complained when they added a convenience and comfort package to the M cars. I'm also sure there weren't THAT many complaints when the M3 was equipped with a V8. What happened to the heritage of the world's best I6 engine?

Like others have said, the customers wants have changed. The cars themselves have changed as well. Customers wanted more power and they're going to get it, granted, it's with turbos but it IS what the people asked for. And for all this power, AWD may have to be an option, seeing that it's getting to a point where it'll be too much for RWD to handle.

I'm sure BMW has lost quite a few sales to Audi for lack of AWD in their premiere cars.

Last edited by grieverr; 05-03-2011 at 02:11 PM.
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      05-03-2011, 02:10 PM   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grieverr View Post
Price?
well, they charge 6 figures for the m5 and m6.

average m3 costs 75k, and the base price of a 911 starts at around 78k.
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      05-03-2011, 02:59 PM   #118
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That is cool and all, but there re going to be to many M models. BMW is making an m version of everything next thing you know there's going to be an M version of the s1000rr.
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      05-03-2011, 04:51 PM   #119
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Why is everyone so obsessed which car is fastest?
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      05-03-2011, 04:59 PM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hcourville View Post
People in North America are "brain washed" over AWD. We will buy an AWD drive car here when they need it for about 4 or 5 bad snowy days in an entire year. Or consumers will buy a truck or SUV so they can go camping in the summer. Then they sacrifice for AWD the other 300 days of the year. The mentality here really suprises me sometimes.

And it's not BMW fault. They're just following the money.
Perfectly said!
It's like selling an ice machine to an Eskimo! Some simply never learn, well too bad for them.
May those fools be happy with their AWD and X-Drive and other things I classify under "items Humanity will never need", although sold just because some marketing specialist "created a need".
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      05-03-2011, 05:34 PM   #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crackberry View Post
well, they charge 6 figures for the m5 and m6.

Average m3 costs 75k, and the base price of a 911 starts at around 78k.
You cite an avg M3 cost which is 18k higher than the MSRP and then compare it to 911 base price. Cmon get real. If you are going to compare compare apples to apples.

MSRP

M3 - 58K

911 - 78K


Huge difference, 34%, people dont just have an extra 34% they can through in. 911 is in another league of performance and status and therefore it is in another league of price
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      05-03-2011, 08:52 PM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yurka View Post
This is great news for us Snow people.
Amen!!
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      05-03-2011, 09:14 PM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 13entley View Post
You shouldn't be driving an M5 when it's snowing anyway.
Huh??? I drive my M5 in the winter and M3 in the summer. Say again?
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      05-03-2011, 09:38 PM   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wall$treet View Post
Do you guys want to start betting on official weight numbers? It was already going to be to heavy to really matter at this point. At 4500 pounds or so in RWD trim, my guess is 4650 in AWD trim.

The e60 M5 was the last of the track car M5's. Someone also mentioned awhile back that M kept increasing weight however the e60 M5 was spectacular as it did not increase in weight at all over the e39 and yet was bigger and had more power.

I just cannot see ever tracking the new F10. I understand most do not want to but a fair number did with the e60 which was a nice option.

I also have lived in snowy canada and with todays nanny's and good tires (even new set of good conti DWS all-season) I never had a single problem with RWD cars, let alone if they had snow tires.

However when the base weight is 4400 pounds plus, weight really does not matter at that point (atleast 100-200 pounds do not matter).
I don't disagree with you that RWD cars are capable when properly equipped. I drive my IS F with proper winters year round in the mountains.

However, I would be more than happy to replace one of my SUV's with an AWD M5 and move to a true fun car instead of the F. The M5 isn't designed to be a track car, in spite of what some say.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3s-a-charm View Post
I drive my M3 all winter and although it's a little slow getting going, it's fine all year. That being said, my wife has the 535xiT and that is a BLAST to drive in the winter (and summer). I would be the first to welcome the idea of a M5 with x-drive. Summer performance isn't impacted significantly (except to the RWD purists) and the winter gets a whole lot more fun!

Perhaps most of the "brainwashing" is that die-hards that believe RWD cars are the only form of sports car...?
I've read lots of threads of M3 drivers that drive year round.

Not everyone wants or needs an AWD M5 but there are some that do.

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Originally Posted by 13entley View Post
You shouldn't be driving an M5 when it's snowing anyway.
Retarded comment. Clearly no idea. Enjoy your garage queen.
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      05-03-2011, 09:39 PM   #125
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wow thats amazing!
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      05-04-2011, 12:07 AM   #126
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When is AWD going to be used. I'll stick to RWD and southern California.
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      05-04-2011, 01:01 AM   #127
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Get over it guys. Choose not to buy the AWD variant and BMW will likely kill it off. Talk with your money, not your whining. For those looking to stick to BMW but want something in the Audi lineup, why not get this?
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      05-04-2011, 04:22 AM   #128
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M5 AWD

Maybee this is another new model coming as F10 / F11 with xDrive and a new kind of M engine
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      05-04-2011, 10:41 AM   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IS3andME View Post
Then don't get a M car or a sports car, or move...I'm getting tired of Americans (not saying you) acting like spoiled brats who have to always have things their way...I live outside of DC, the weather is nice, you see people with their bikes out, when the weather isn't, no bikes. Simple. When it snows, you don't drive your hi-po M car (unless that is your only car)---and furthermore, I'm and "essential employee", so you really want to talk snow to me?

And another thing, it was said that the ever increasing sloth-ness of the current 5 series can be blamed on what Chinese customers want---keep that in mind...
So I say that an xdrive M5 would be very beneficial for my needs and lifestyle, you say don't get an M car and/or move. Thanks for the input. Also, the hating America trend has really gotten old, BMW's been making M cars for decades, dont say "Americans are spoiled" when BMW finally decides to make an AWD M car. I'm sure they conducted plenty of market research before coming to this conclusion and simply didnt ask a group of rich obnoxious Americans what they want.

And as I said in my previous posts, I live in the mountains, where there is generally a large amount of snow for a good portion of the year. When I come off the mountains (which is daily) and my altitude drops drastically, the weather gets much better and I dont enjoy driving SUV's on my back mountain roads. I have an 335xi, a CLS55 AMG and an ML500, with an AWD M car I could essentially combine two of my cars, and save a hell of a lot of money. To me, this is a fantastic idea, Im sorry you and others dont feel the same way.
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      05-04-2011, 01:58 PM   #130
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I think its great and should help boost sales which is a good thing for all ///M enthusiasts so we get more cars in the future and don't let the eco-boys destroy the brand.
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      05-04-2011, 03:16 PM   #131
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Turbo, xDrive, all this in ///M cars = ///Marketting, I hate it, won't ///Motorsport.
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      05-05-2011, 11:49 AM   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rs_philly View Post
With AWD and torque vectoring, the M5 will be competitive against the Panamera Turbo. Without AWD, it wont. 550+ hp is just too much for RWD.
It will be fun to see all those dissing the AWD M5 switch sides when the AWD version posts better numbers, 0-60, quarter mile, ring times etc than the RWD!!!
Tell that to Cadillac or Mercedes...all just happy to see a heavy ass M5 AWD variant that loses it's fun factor...

BTW, the people who using the 911 Turbo, Gallardo, GT-R, and Audi R8 as examples--two of those are 911 competitors, and one is a Ferrari V8 competitor (outright in terms of layout)...All have been criticized for lack of driver involvement due to AWD, and the heaviness that their AWD systems incurr. As for the GT-R, it is RWD in the it's race spec...The Porsche 911 Turbo has been criticized for being too soft, the Gallardo for not being as exciting as the Ferrari 430/458, and the R8--well, remeber the TT-RS has bested it to 60, via it's DSG tranny...


Would I like to have all, hell yeah...but a AWD variant of the M5? Just for people who moved their tails to the snow belt, move your tail to another place if you want certain things...If I want snow yet I move to Rio---that's on me...but, I'll take the pretty beaches over snow anyday...
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