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      06-23-2013, 10:01 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Niko1414 View Post
Absolutely guys there is some risk involved but without risk there is no reward

I own the car outright and if warranty is voided or it blows oh well, but that is just me.

Guys I also ran stage 2 ( or something like that) weistec tuned e63 with larger turbos, down pipes and tune Ran him twice headed down to HRE and he only got me by a car and half both times. Everyone was in shock including E63 driver. We have it on video will post shortly. Two rolls 60-130

Vic we need to catch up!!
For me the issue is resale associated with this risk.

I plan to sell my car by next summer at the latest because I can't keep a car for more than 2 years without getting bored. Plus I think resale after 3 values is going to be shit because of all the off-lease cars flooding the market.

If people think tuned cars are abused, or risky, then it will kill resale. That would be a deal breaker for me.

It will be interesting to see how your car fares against a stock 2014 CLS63 S-AMG. Those are supposed to do 0-60 in 3.3s stock.
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      06-23-2013, 11:08 PM   #46
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The 2014 cls63 is AWD I probably have no chance in hell 0-60 beating it.
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      06-23-2013, 11:41 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Niko1414 View Post
The 2014 cls63 is AWD I probably have no chance in hell 0-60 beating it.
At a track, with good track prep and properly heated and aired down drag radials... My money would be on you. Now how strong is the M differential when sending 560+rwtq through it...and dead hooking? I am not sure. But AWD cars will have a hard time out launching the type of set up I described. Most AWD cars are limited in doing a proper burn out so they would not benefit as much as a RWD set up. Yes, OEM tire to OEM tire, the AWD car will have a big advantage and much more consistent launches.
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      06-23-2013, 11:49 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom C
Quote:
Originally Posted by Niko1414 View Post
The 2014 cls63 is AWD I probably have no chance in hell 0-60 beating it.
At a track, with good track prep and properly heated and aired down drag radials... My money would be on you. Now how strong is the M differential when sending 560+rwtq through it...and dead hooking? I am not sure. But AWD cars will have a hard time out launching the type of set up I described. Most AWD cars are limited in doing a proper burn out so they would not benefit as much as a RWD set up. Yes, OEM tire to OEM tire, the AWD car will have a big advantage and much more consistent launches.
Very good point Tom
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      06-24-2013, 08:15 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by Niko1414 View Post
The 2014 cls63 is AWD I probably have no chance in hell 0-60 beating it.
Yeah but over a quarter mile you might. Mercedes did not claim low 11s, they claimed in the 11s.
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      06-24-2013, 09:10 AM   #50
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am i right in assuming that since the m5 and m6 share the same power plant i would be able to use this on my m6??
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      06-24-2013, 09:48 AM   #51
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am i right in assuming that since the m5 and m6 share the same power plant i would be able to use this on my m6??
You are right.
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      06-24-2013, 09:51 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stealth.pilot View Post
For me the issue is resale associated with this risk.

I plan to sell my car by next summer at the latest because I can't keep a car for more than 2 years without getting bored. Plus I think resale after 3 values is going to be shit because of all the off-lease cars flooding the market.

If people think tuned cars are abused, or risky, then it will kill resale. That would be a deal breaker for me.

It will be interesting to see how your car fares against a stock 2014 CLS63 S-AMG. Those are supposed to do 0-60 in 3.3s stock.
Isn't the 2014 CLS63 S-AMG going to cost well north of $120K though? So wouldn't exactly be in the same price range as the F10 M5 although it is still in the same class.

Plus consider the 2014 LCI F10 M5 with the Competition Package. It will perform slightly better than the stock 2013 M5's today.
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      06-24-2013, 09:52 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by RPiM5 View Post
You are right.
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      06-24-2013, 09:53 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by RPiM5 View Post
Isn't the 2014 CLS63 S-AMG going to cost well north of $120K though? So wouldn't exactly be in the same price range as the F10 M5 although it is still in the same class.

Plus consider the 2014 LCI F10 M5 with the Competition Package. It will perform slightly better than the stock 2013 M5's today.
I don't know. My car is $112k sticker. Add 2014 price increase and the PP and you're in the same ballpark.
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      06-24-2013, 10:03 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom C View Post
At a track, with good track prep and properly heated and aired down drag radials... My money would be on you. Now how strong is the M differential when sending 560+rwtq through it...and dead hooking? I am not sure. But AWD cars will have a hard time out launching the type of set up I described. Most AWD cars are limited in doing a proper burn out so they would not benefit as much as a RWD set up. Yes, OEM tire to OEM tire, the AWD car will have a big advantage and much more consistent launches.

Where the AWD AMG will shine is during every day driving from a dig where there is zero to limited pre meditation and prep. The average Joe will just lay down the pedal and go. But the overall AWD S numbers of the AMG are not yielding higher traps speeds so I would guess the AWD powertrain is sucking up power up top. I would think the M would beat this car from a roller- 40 to 160.

As for the tune- Nick you have the proper mentality which is "pay to play". If it goes boom (which it wont) then you understand the consequences. Ive been doing this for well over a decade.
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      06-24-2013, 10:05 AM   #56
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Gents,

I think I have made my decision regarding the Switzer Tune (for now ).

I have decided that I am not going to get the tune, really only for one BIG reason and a few smaller reasons.

Biggest reason why I am going to pass on it, is due to the fact that the Switzer tune does not remove the top speed limiter. I have a hard time justifying $3K for a tune that doesn't allow me to really take the M5 to the limits of its ability. Like I have said before, for where I live, there are roads where I can push 200mph safely and out of the sight of the Polizei (especially in Mexico ). And most of you know me by now and know that I'm crazy, so I would really use such speeds all the time. Lol!

But the other smaller things I am concerned with are some of the points that Vic55 pointed out. I need a tune that will ensure that my Air to Fuel ratio is right with my catless downpipes as I have already had some side-affects from running full catless. Simply running more boost for me could possibly exacerbate some of the side-affects of my full straightpipe exhaust system.

But I do think that a huge advantage of the Switzter Tune, is that the tune is a piggyback and can be removed easily for dealer-related repairs/maintenance.

In the end though, I kind of don't see the point in having a faster M5 if you still can't go faster than a stock M5 (155mph). I think the real game changers will be when full remaps come out that remove the top speed limiter and also remove that pesky CEL. Then we'll be able to see M5's beat up on GTR's all day long (Sorry if I hurt any GTR owners feelings, but not really sorry). LOL! :P

So for now I am going wait for the ESS full re-flash tune to come out which will include, top speed limiter removal, CEL delete, and will be tuned specifically for my full straightpipe setup. Just like I am still patiently waiting for the Eibach Lowering Springs to come out, I will patiently wait for ESS.



Also one last point: Has anyone looked into trying to get the European "Drivers Package" that at least raises the top speed limiter from 155mph to 190mph for a U.S. Spec F10 M5? I wonder if this would be possible. Hmmm....
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      06-24-2013, 10:37 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic55 View Post
Where the AWD AMG will shine is during every day driving from a dig where there is zero to limited pre meditation and prep. The average Joe will just lay down the pedal and go. But the overall AWD S numbers of the AMG are not yielding higher traps speeds so I would guess the AWD powertrain is sucking up power up top. I would think the M would beat this car from a roller- 40 to 160.

As for the tune- Nick you have the proper mentality which is "pay to play". If it goes boom (which it wont) then you understand the consequences. Ive been doing this for well over a decade.
I agree.
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      06-24-2013, 12:48 PM   #58
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I agree with dave that the ESS full ECU remap tune is the right long term approach. I also believe it may be a while before it hits the market as why i made the decision to go piggyback.

And if it doesn't come out in 8-12 months dave is probably going to go piggyback on us
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      06-24-2013, 02:42 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Niko1414 View Post
I agree with dave that the ESS full ECU remap tune is the right long term approach. I also believe it may be a while before it hits the market as why i made the decision to go piggyback.

And if it doesn't come out in 8-12 months dave is probably going to go piggyback on us
I'm not gonna lie, I do love me some piggy action.
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      09-20-2013, 08:33 PM   #60
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Was looking at possible tuning options and really prefer the reversible nature of a piggyback. I was looking at the Switzer piggyback in another thread and noticed that it looks very much like the Race Chip piggyback. In fact, it looks nearly identical...

Switzer:
http://f10.m5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=869621

Race Chip:
http://www.racechip.com/chiptuning/b...12kw/index.php

The hardware is probably identical (assumption made based on the identical packaging) so that leaves the software as a potential difference. In the installation videos I noticed that the Race Chip wiring harness is also 100% identical to the Switzer shown below.

If they are the same exact unit the difference in price is significant between the two of them.

Update: Just found this video showing tuning potential of the Race Chip Ultimate piggy back. I am very interested in this product now...
http://www.racechip.com/support/vide.../turbo-petrol/

Update 2: Wow. Just found it listed on the U.S. website for $769 with 1 day express shipping and 14 day return policy. https://www.racechip-usa.com/chiptun.../4-4-V8-412kw/
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      09-20-2013, 09:06 PM   #61
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If you are going to do the piggyback want not try the Burger one:

http://www.burgertuning.com/N63_Jb_B...nce_Tuner.html
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      09-20-2013, 09:20 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom C View Post
If you are going to do the piggyback want not try the Burger one:

http://www.burgertuning.com/N63_Jb_B...nce_Tuner.html
Tom C,

I am very familiar with the Burger Tuning products...

The current JB Stage 1 is a nice starting point but there is currently no development on it and I'm looking for something which may offer a bit more.

Thanks.
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      09-20-2013, 10:26 PM   #63
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If you are going to do the piggyback want not try the Burger one:

http://www.burgertuning.com/N63_Jb_B...nce_Tuner.html
Not for M5. That link is for tuning N63. M5 has S63tu. Different engine.
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      09-20-2013, 10:29 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxx2 View Post
Was looking at possible tuning options and really prefer the reversible nature of a piggyback. I was looking at the Switzer piggyback in another thread and noticed that it looks very much like the Race Chip piggyback. In fact, it looks nearly identical...

Switzer:
http://f10.m5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=869621

Race Chip:
http://www.racechip.com/chiptuning/b...12kw/index.php

The hardware is probably identical (assumption made based on the identical packaging) so that leaves the software as a potential difference. In the installation videos I noticed that the Race Chip wiring harness is also 100% identical to the Switzer shown below.

If they are the same exact unit the difference in price is significant between the two of them.

Update: Just found this video showing tuning potential of the Race Chip Ultimate piggy back. I am very interested in this product now...
http://www.racechip.com/support/vide.../turbo-petrol/

Update 2: Wow. Just found it listed on the U.S. website for $769 with 1 day express shipping and 14 day return policy. https://www.racechip-usa.com/chiptun.../4-4-V8-412kw/
First of all the hardware being similar doesn't mean the tune is similar. A mac and a pc run the same processor, but provide a very different experience. When it comes to tuning, it's the software that matters not the box it comes in.

Second, this race chip company seems like a McDonald's operation. I don't see how they could possibly develop and adequately test that many tunes. I would believe the tunes are not well tested and therefore risky.

No way would I buy race-chip vs. Switzer. Switzer is a much more respectable operation.
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      09-20-2013, 10:56 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by stealth.pilot View Post
Not for M5. That link is for tuning N63. M5 has S63tu. Different engine.
I know that the F10 M5's engine is the S63TU...if you look at the page, they are saying that they offer it for the F10 M5 under "Applications". I believe (from another website) there are a couple of M5s running around with the Burger piggybacks. Personally, I am staying away from all tunes at this point, until something proven, reliable and warrantied comes out (Dinan).
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      09-20-2013, 11:07 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by stealth.pilot View Post
Not for M5. That link is for tuning N63. M5 has S63tu. Different engine.
True, but there are M5's currently running with the JB Stg 1 piggyback with great results.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stealth.pilot View Post
First of all the hardware being similar doesn't mean the tune is similar. A mac and a pc run the same processor, but provide a very different experience. When it comes to tuning, it's the software that matters not the box it comes in.

Second, this race chip company seems like a McDonald's operation. I don't see how they could possibly develop and adequately test that many tunes. I would believe the tunes are not well tested and therefore risky.

No way would I buy race-chip vs. Switzer. Switzer is a much more respectable operation.
True, the hardware being similar (or the same) does not mean much however, could they all be using the same base tune "file" like we are seeing with the flash tunes currently available for the M5? In addition, the good and bad part of these basic piggybacks is that they are manipulating only MAP sensor values for altering the boost pressure. They aren't really in the same league as "flash tunes" and therefore do not require the same type of R&D. They are basically turning up the boost "X"% which makes them somewhat a universal application. Very easy to have thousands of applications this way.

Can't comment on the company's reputation as I don't know much about them. I'll do some more research on that.

Switzer is definitely top notch. My only question on this particular item is; are they selling a re-branded item with 400% mark-up...?

Last edited by Maxx2; 09-20-2013 at 11:19 PM..
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