Official info on AMS new M5 ECU flash tune, from IND!

[JoeyLeeBMW]

Originally Posted by Unklejoe

You seem to be confused. This is a "full actual ECU tune."

How is ECU "FLASH" a real full tune?

It sounds like another word for PIGGYBACK to me...

Every Dyno numbers show different #'s always keep in mind.

Does this mean the Top Speed Limiter is taken off too?

I had mine coded off and it re-encrypted itself and came back after few days/week...

The fastest I took my M6 was 187 but not it stops at 165-167 again...

[teamwerx]

Pictures of the flash bench or process?

What hardware modifications are required on the ecu for this?

[Bosozoku]

Originally Posted by stealth.pilot

seems like a good tune but for $3000 I expect a Dinan like warranty and without that there is no way in hell I would pay $3k.

Boom.

No factory-matching warranty?
No sale.

Not 50-state emissions legal?
No sale.

[Unklejoe]

Originally Posted by Falcao

3k is a bargain for 100hp. I wished we had NA cars again. How much hp can you get for 3k on NA engine again? turbo engines has spoiled everyone to a point where 100hp should be 1k now. Can you imagine a vendor offering 100hp for 3k for E90x.. think about that for a minute. Dinan exhaust for E90x cost as much as this tune..and how much hp did you get with Dinan exhaust? this is to put things into perspective for people crying about 3k for 100hp.

Seriously people.. IF vendor sold tune for 1k, people will still complain it should be $500. 3k for 100hp tune is too steep? Just wow..

In reality, a flash tune should cost between $300-$1200 no matter the car.

Even for an Audi R8, a "Stage 3" tune costs $1500 from Unitronic (for an 80HP gain).

The problem that people have is that it requires the same amount of effort to tune this car as it does an F30 using the bench flash, yet no one would pay $3000 for a tune on an F30.

I'm not trying to knock AMS or the pricing really, just trying to be the devil's advocate.

Chances are if you can afford an M5 you probably won't care about spending $3000 vs $1000.

The $3000 price tag is a result of the tune being new and being for an expensive car. Prices will come down eventually.

You can make almost 100hp with just a JB4 on an E90 so that's probably where everyone's reference is at.

And when you look at the percentage power increase, it's actually a lot more impressive.

Notice how the Cobb AP costs only a couple hundred more for a 2015 GTR than it does for a 2008 EVO.

[gmd2003]

Originally Posted by JoeyLeeBMW

How is ECU "FLASH" a real full tune?

It sounds like another word for PIGGYBACK to me...

Every Dyno numbers show different #'s always keep in mind.

Does this mean the Top Speed Limiter is taken off too?

I had mine coded off and it re-encrypted itself and came back after few days/week...

The fastest I took my M6 was 187 but not it stops at 165-167 again...

Joey this full access to the ECU code , not a piggyback or the previous BMW test files floating around that people sold for 2k . A software company recently sold the process to multiple vendors on how to access the ECU . As of now it involves directly interfacing with the ECU , and the techniques are proprietary I.e. No one is going to show exactly how bc they had to pay for it , or develop it . I would imagine they are directly accessing the memory chip of the ECU and reading/writing on it bypassing the security . Same way tuning has been done on Mercedes cars for years . So full ECU parameter control , AFR targets , fueling tables , rpm limits , speed limit , CEL delete , upgraded turbos etc. it's a whole new ballgame for us as the BMS stage 1 is no where near as advanced as the JB4 and is only a boost controller . The proof will be at the drag strip but I would put money on an AMS tuned car same fuel vs BMS same fuel any day of the week . Even if they make the same power the lack of limp modes and driveability issues, not to mention safer AFR's at all times a true tune provides is a major improvement .

[Unklejoe]

Originally Posted by JoeyLeeBMW

How is ECU "FLASH" a real full tune?

It sounds like another word for PIGGYBACK to me...

Every Dyno numbers show different #'s always keep in mind.

Does this mean the Top Speed Limiter is taken off too?

I had mine coded off and it re-encrypted itself and came back after few days/week...

The fastest I took my M6 was 187 but not it stops at 165-167 again...

What?

This is NOT a piggyback. There is no hardware added to the car.

This is the real deal. ECU Tune. The thing everyone's been waiting for.

ECU FLASH = Modifying the memory contents of the factory ECU to achieve more aggressive tuning.

FLASH = The process of modifying solid state memory contents. An old carry over from the days where you used to have to physically shine a light on memory chips to erase their contents.

[Unklejoe]

Originally Posted by teamwerx

Pictures of the flash bench or process?

What hardware modifications are required on the ecu for this?

Basically, they take the ECU apart and fasten it in a jig. Then, a probe is attached to the internal BDI/JTAG/whatever port on the circuit board. Then, their special hardware modifies the contents of the ECU's memory.

No modifications to the ECU are required.

[JoeyLeeBMW]

Originally Posted by Unklejoe

What?

This is NOT a piggyback. There is no hardware added to the car.

This is the real deal. ECU Tune. The thing everyone's been waiting for.

ECU FLASH = Modifying the memory contents of the factory ECU to achieve more aggressive tuning.

FLASH = The process of modifying solid state memory contents. An old carry over from the days where you used to have to physically shine a light on memory chips to erase their contents.

Right.

Lets see how the comes out, bc if it is a real full ECU tune everyone is going to go nuts over it

[mcvaughan]

Seems like a fair price to me. Don't forget NO CEL and no speed limiter. Can't say the same of Dinan or BMS.

[Used2be]

Originally Posted by mcvaughan

Don't forget NO CEL and no speed limiter. Can't say the same of Dinan or BMS.

Exactly! I have no experience with the new breed of programmable cars, but to be able to control the fueling to accompany the increased boost so the A/F ratio is appropriate, and along with that reprogram the exhaust gas parameters so that you have no CEL from the richer mixture while running a catless down pipe......free horsepower in my book! Not quite free at $3,000, but I bet competition will bring that down over the months.

[MCarsFan]

Originally Posted by JoeyLeeBMW

Right.

Lets see how the comes out, bc if it is a real full ECU tune everyone is going to go nuts over it

I have been running a remapped M5 since the beginning of January - so far so good, amazing power increase. Very positive experience. For me the piggy back tune in the long run just want a solution for me. Speed limiter and CEL issues for me were too much of an issue. Tricking the ecu into producing more power was a concern for me.

[mvigod]

While I would love this not sure I would risk the cost of replacing an F10 M5 blown engine or transmission. Remember even if the tune is on the car but isn't even responsible for the blown engine you lose your warranty. That's a bit scary.

Maybe once these are out in the wild for some time and have a good track record of no issues with the engine the risk goes down.

[boots]

My bro in London has the new tune on his car also and when he returns from out of town, he's supposed to post up a review.

[greentrbo95gst]

Originally Posted by gmd2003

On track my m6 cp went into limp mode from high exhaust gas temps ( running too lean for sustained hard use ) with the BMS piggyback . I'd say it was harder on my motor . A real tune is definitely the better way to go, whether it's "worth " 3k is an entirely different discussion .

Listen to this guy. He knows.

[shivaswrath]

Originally Posted by bronch

$3000

Worth it!!

[Spinny02]

Supply and demand. If no one buys the tune then they will have to lower the price. Something tells me that won't be an issue. They also have and added cost of shipping the ecu for unlock until they can do it at their shop. I am sure the rights to such eq. Is not cheap.

Some would pay more than 3k but far fewer than would pay 1.5k. That's is ams
' call on the right price vs volume.

[exmowner]

Originally Posted by flinchy

>alternatives offered by cheap, low quality piggy back controllers.

#shotsfired

seriously wouldn't throw stones until your product is on the same planet even...

and those 'cheap low quailty piggy back controllers' work WITH a flash tune even.



harder on your engine?

come on, please don't confuse stupid people, boost is boost, AFR's are AFR's, timing is timing, etc. etc.

regardless of what you think of a piggyback, the companies that make them have a much stronger reputation than AMS for this platform.

besides, $3k is just 'M tax', RnD? lol.

So you being a smart person believes that a piggyback on any car let alone an m5 controls AFR ? I know it's summer in sydney right (heat is to blame) now but before calling anyone stupid maybe you should get your facts straight.

If a piggyback solution for my m5 was offered free of charge I wouldnt be any more interested...

The car has been out for 3 years so difficult to say any one company has mastered the f10. I'll trust what I know about ams.

In your opinion countless dyno runs and 2 years of development on a turbo upgrade is not considered R&D? Good story bro

[exmowner]

Article from enginebasics.com

Piggybacks explained: Intercept the signal from the sensors before the factory ECU, and modify those signals so the stock ECU is “tricked” into making the vehicle behave the way you want. For example, if you want the ECU to add more fueling, you would intercept the O2 sensor wire before the factory ECU “saw” that signal and modify it to make the ECU THINK that it is running lean causing the factory ECU to add fuel. Another method is to intercept the Maf sensor and tell the ECU there is more air going into the motor than there really is. Again, this would make the factory ECU compensate for the extra air coming in and add fueling.

[MCarsFan]

Originally Posted by exmowner

Article from enginebasics.com

Piggybacks explained: Intercept the signal from the sensors before the factory ECU, and modify those signals so the stock ECU is “tricked” into making the vehicle behave the way you want. For example, if you want the ECU to add more fueling, you would intercept the O2 sensor wire before the factory ECU “saw” that signal and modify it to make the ECU THINK that it is running lean causing the factory ECU to add fuel. Another method is to intercept the Maf sensor and tell the ECU there is more air going into the motor than there really is. Again, this would make the factory ECU compensate for the extra air coming in and add fueling.

Thanks for that explanation.. I agree there can be no question that a real tune or remap is the better route to go.

[greentrbo95gst]

Some pay this much for Gruppe M intakes and gain close to nothing. We finally have control over timing and fuel. Let's get excited people.

[AstonMartian777]

Originally Posted by greentrbo95gst

Some pay this much for Gruppe M intakes and gain close to nothing. We finally have control over timing and fuel. Let's get excited people.

+100000000000000

[dizx]

The great thing with this is that ALL BMW F-series can now be tuned. You can remove speed limiters, cold start programs and so on. A boring European 316i, which has a very restrictive programming, allowing only 136hp, can now be tuned to 220hp!
http://www.br-performance.be/en-be/c...011/5681-316i/

BR is the company behind the technology for this tune as well.