Three ways the German automakers are ripping us off

[catpat8000]

I've been looking at an M5, a M6 GC, an E63 and the CLS63. I'm seeking a 4 door sedan which will dust 911s and Corvettes without much effort and which will carry me around in relative luxury. I'm looking in the $100-110K range (so the M6 is not really an option).

Currently I drive an M3 which I love so I'm slightly predisposed to BMW but I need something bigger (objectively true) and something faster (emotionally true). In looking around, I'm getting rather annoyed at what I'm seeing with Mercedes and BMW. They are ripping us off!

How? Here are three examples each company has embraced.

(1) Extra charges for a "performance pack". MB offers the sAMG package and BMW offers the ZCP option. With BMW, this amounts to a few hundred dollars in new hardware, different (not better wheels), and a SW change. Cost? Over 7 grand. MB has a similar deal going. Come on. 7 grand for sw, cast wheels, some different bushings, and a different anti-sway bar? Rip off.

(2) Extra charges for paint colors. The "individual" options for paint are such a ridiculous rip off I can't believe it. The companies offer a lame selection of colors and then charge a pantload of money for additional colors?

(3) Extra charges for non balck and white interiors. Same comments as above - offer a limited selection of interior colors then a giant extra charge for additional colors. Come on - merely offering a slightly wider selection of colors would cost the company almost nothing yet we're paying $5K for this option.

I know, I know, if I don't like it don't buy. But doesn't this bother anyone else? They are basically sitting around asking each other how they can get another few thousand out of each sale and they aren't offering anything of inherent value for it.

Pat

[Neil McRae]

Originally Posted by catpat8000

I've been looking at an M5, a M6 GC, an E63 and the CLS63. I'm seeking a 4 door sedan which will dust 911s and Corvettes without much effort and which will carry me around in relative luxury. I'm looking in the $100-110K range (so the M6 is not really an option).

Currently I drive an M3 which I love so I'm slightly predisposed to BMW but I need something bigger (objectively true) and something faster (emotionally true). In looking around, I'm getting rather annoyed at what I'm seeing with Mercedes and BMW. They are ripping us off!

How? Here are three examples each company has embraced.

(1) Extra charges for a "performance pack". MB offers the sAMG package and BMW offers the ZCP option. With BMW, this amounts to a few hundred dollars in new hardware, different (not better wheels), and a SW change. Cost? Over 7 grand. MB has a similar deal going. Come on. 7 grand for sw, cast wheels, some different bushings, and a different anti-sway bar? Rip off.

(2) Extra charges for paint colors. The "individual" options for paint are such a ridiculous rip off I can't believe it. The companies offer a lame selection of colors and then charge a pantload of money for additional colors?

(3) Extra charges for non balck and white interiors. Same comments as above - offer a limited selection of interior colors then a giant extra charge for additional colors. Come on - merely offering a slightly wider selection of colors would cost the company almost nothing yet we're paying $5K for this option.

I know, I know, if I don't like it don't buy. But doesn't this bother anyone else? They are basically sitting around asking each other how they can get another few thousand out of each sale and they aren't offering anything of inherent value for it.

Pat

all car makers do it dood - and the world still rotates.German guys seem to make money to invest in better cars - I like this.

[kylek13]

I think you are pointing out why these companies are self sufficient and turn a profit. No bailouts in Germany needed It kinda feels like they nickel and dime you, I still think the M5 is the best bang for your buck unless you want a Corvette or something.

[Boss330]

You'll see the same in every line of business.

Clothing/fashion. Most high end brands are no more expensive to manufacture than cheaper brands. But customers are willing to pay for exclusivity and brand name.

Auto parts. Parts are made by the same sub supplier but labeled and packed differently. Sold as a brand name part it's expensive, sold as a cheap brand it's cheap. But often the exact same part, manufactured at the same factory...

It's part of the free economy and free market. The opposite would be a controlled market as per Soviet union where the government decides what a car etc should cost... A private company has an obligation to it's shareholders to make the highest profit possible. Margins are much higher on a high end product because the buyer can afford to pay more. On a 1-series there would be far less buyers that could afford such a high premium.

I'd rather have a solid economy BMW making a profit each year, than a BMW that just barely makes it or needs government funds...

[chong0]

I think you make a good point- ZCP seems to be the norm with BMW now and you have to wonder why didn't they make the car with ZCP as standard when it first launched?

As consumers, we should embrace competition. A panny turbo can do the ring faster than a stock M5. Then ZCP comes out and now BMW can match the ring time, but the costs get pushed to the consumer instead of changing the base M5 (and not to mention the +2k price increase for 2014 US models).

Though a 1st world problem, it is extremely frustrating. Look on the bright side- the US consumer has a nice discount in comparison to the rest of the world.

[catpat8000]

Yes, you guys are all right. They do this because we pay for it and if there was a viable competitor who didn't do it and put the hurt to them, they would respond. But there isn't so they don't.

I'm just irritated by the fact that if I want ZCP and an interesting color on the inside and outside, that adds 15 grand to the price of the car.

Pat

[RidgeRacer]

Originally Posted by catpat8000

Yes, you guys are all right. They do this because we pay for it and if there was a viable competitor who didn't do it and put the hurt to them, they would respond. But there isn't so they don't.

I'm just irritated by the fact that if I want ZCP and an interesting color on the inside and outside, that adds 15 grand to the price of the car.

Pat

If it pisses you off, give your money to someone else: Lexus GSF is coming.

Picture of the test mule at the Nurburgring

[skypx]

Originally Posted by kylek13

I think you are pointing out why these companies are self sufficient and turn a profit. No bailouts in Germany needed It kinda feels like they nickel and dime you, I still think the M5 is the best bang for your buck......

+1 One of the reason why I won't get a p-car. I love the tech and performance but not the price.

[M3PGH]

things look different depending on the angle you look at them. When I bought my M5 at 94k MSRP, I felt it was pricey, then I test drove a Panamera turbo that was priced at 150k . Panamera has some features slightly better than M5, but other features that were worse. I looked back at my M5 and I felt it is a bargain. Though overall, cars are getting expensive for most people, and this is why you see huge depreciation on most cars priced above a certain level

[04S]

Originally Posted by RidgeRacer

If it pisses you off, give your money to someone else: Lexus GSF is coming.

Picture of the test mule at the Nurburgring

That is an extremely poor fitting right hand side exhaust, even for a mule.

[mstmng]

Originally Posted by skypx

+1 One of the reason why I won't get a p-car. I love the tech and performance but not the price.

customazitation of P-car interior can add 50% to the base car price EASY!

[v12]

Every time I shop for a car, I start with a clean slate and an open mind. I always end-up with german and it's either a BMW or a P car.

Anyone looked at prices for a spec'ed car now vs. just 3 years ago on some BMW models?

[RPiM5]

Someone else already mentioned but I'll reiterate, you forgot about the $2,000 price increase as of October 1st.

50% of the cost of the ZCP is you being able to tell people that "your" M5 has 575hp as opposed to those poor people who can only afford the 560hp version. Lol!

Also if you actually analyzed the features of the ZCP, you'd realize it only costs 6k instead of 7.3k if you were gonna get the 20" wheels anyways. Less than 1% of F10 M5's sold have the 19" wheels on them. Lol!

But in some ways you are right OP. The swaybars cost no more than $400, the bushings maybe $100, the Springs, like $400, and the missing baffles in the exhaust and blacked out tips, prolly like $100 bucks. The 15hp increase in reality maybe like $500, and the steering improvements like a $1,000. The CP 601 wheels, would probably be a $1,300 dollar option like the 343M's if they were a stand alone option. Added up, in reality it prolly costs, $3,800 bucks for all the Comp Pack components, but they have to make a profit right? How else is Hans, who works on the M5 assembly line, gonna get paid? Lol!

Quit your complaining and just fork over your hard earned money. In the end you are getting what you paid for, a better product.

I can attest, by the fact that I have over 26,000 miles on my 2013 M5, that it does NOT NEED the Comp Pack, but if I wanted a slightly faster, slightly better sounding, and slightly better driving and handling M5, ON THE RACE TRACK, I would sell my left kidney to get the ZCP.

[turbolag]

Originally Posted by v12

Every time I shop for a car, I start with a clean slate and an open mind. I always end-up with german and it's either a BMW or a P car.

Anyone looked at prices for a spec'ed car now vs. just 3 years ago on some BMW models?

Yes.

Once upon a time you could get a E90 M3, Novillo Leather/Metallic paint for 58k. Now? Ha, F30 335i M Sport with MPPK/Exhaust/Suspension is pushing 60k+.

[KoenG]

You're right, I also see this "skimming" technique. When I get a new 520d... the navigation is an expensive option while the display is in the dash, the controller is on the central console, the antenna is in the roof. It costs BMW nothing to get the nav-soft in, but they charge +2,5k$ to just activate the soft!

This is a common technique of markering boys to rip you off. Just get a standard metallic color, standard trim M5 and limit the extra expenses to what you really care for. Try to avoid to get seduced with individual colors and trims... it isn't worth it! The car remains exactly the same in black, white or champagne!

BTW, on the LCI none M, the front fog lights have become an option, while on pre-LCI they where standard trim. Just to seduce prospects to throw some extra money in the deal...

[Rob///M5]

Buy a lightly used F10 M5 for a ridiculously good price

[Bimmer6]

Originally Posted by catpat8000

I've been looking at an M5, a M6 GC, an E63 and the CLS63. I'm seeking a 4 door sedan which will dust 911s and Corvettes without much effort and which will carry me around in relative luxury. I'm looking in the $100-110K range (so the M6 is not really an option).

Currently I drive an M3 which I love so I'm slightly predisposed to BMW but I need something bigger (objectively true) and something faster (emotionally true). In looking around, I'm getting rather annoyed at what I'm seeing with Mercedes and BMW. They are ripping us off!

How? Here are three examples each company has embraced.

(1) Extra charges for a "performance pack". MB offers the sAMG package and BMW offers the ZCP option. With BMW, this amounts to a few hundred dollars in new hardware, different (not better wheels), and a SW change. Cost? Over 7 grand. MB has a similar deal going. Come on. 7 grand for sw, cast wheels, some different bushings, and a different anti-sway bar? Rip off.

(2) Extra charges for paint colors. The "individual" options for paint are such a ridiculous rip off I can't believe it. The companies offer a lame selection of colors and then charge a pantload of money for additional colors?

(3) Extra charges for non balck and white interiors. Same comments as above - offer a limited selection of interior colors then a giant extra charge for additional colors. Come on - merely offering a slightly wider selection of colors would cost the company almost nothing yet we're paying $5K for this option.

I know, I know, if I don't like it don't buy. But doesn't this bother anyone else? They are basically sitting around asking each other how they can get another few thousand out of each sale and they aren't offering anything of inherent value for it.

Pat

Frankly- I think it's a perfect system because you can pick and choose the options you want. Clearly not all people what the same car, and choice pricing works for the buyer. When I purchased my M5 I only wanted the HUD, 20" wheels, full leather which made me a happy camper. When I purchased my 911, I didn't need to spend 10k in leather and got the car optioned the way I wanted.

We all like choices which happens will all manufactors, and the key with any business is to turn a profit. Hell I got my M5 less than ED invoice just play the game. Some get killed, and some get a great deal. Good luck with your choice. The key is never to buy a car for resale because it's not an investment bottom line.

[smashhell]

BMW is a business after all.
You could argue that ANY BMW is more of "want" than "need".
For that "want", you pay a premium.

[smashhell]

Originally Posted by Rob///M5

Buy a lightly used F10 M5 for a ridiculously good price

Slightly used M5 are going for 90% of MSRP.
If I'm buying a $85k+ used car, I'll pay $10k more for a new one. :/

[savela]

Rip off? For a base of around $92k you get a car that does it all, and very well. Supply and demand is a beautiful thing. One is only ripped off if they unsuspectingly pay more for something or receive less than promised. BMW is pretty clear with their pricing and they more than deliver what they promise.

For $92k you get, performance-wise, about the same M5 you can buy for $115k. Even fully optioned, their brakes and the ZCP only add at the top end of performance, IMHO. Everything in between is luxury. One can spend that on a watch, a purse, a pair of earrings, a painting.....as long as one feels the got what they paid for, there is no rip off.

Ok, so a 2014 corvette is way more bang for the buck but I, for one, feel I got what I paid for....no rip off. I paid quite a bit for the leather on my dash and to be honest, would have paid more than what they charged me for it.

[catpat8000]

Originally Posted by savela

Rip off? For a base of around $92k you get a car that does it all, and very well. Supply and demand is a beautiful thing. One is only ripped off if they unsuspectingly pay more for something or receive less than promised. BMW is pretty clear with their pricing and they more than deliver what they promise.

For $92k you get, performance-wise, about the same M5 you can buy for $115k. Even fully optioned, their brakes and the ZCP only add at the top end of performance, IMHO. Everything in between is luxury. One can spend that on a watch, a purse, a pair of earrings, a painting.....as long as one feels the got what they paid for, there is no rip off.

Ok, so a 2014 corvette is way more bang for the buck but I, for one, feel I got what I paid for....no rip off. I paid quite a bit for the leather on my dash and to be honest, would have paid more than what they charged me for it.

It seems pretty clear you didn't even read my post. At no point did I say the M5 was a rip off. I don't even know why you went off in that direction.

[MSportDC]

In line with most of the arguments put forward, BMW's sales & marketing is doing their job of generating greater revenue and P/E to please their stakeholders. Can't blame them that they're doing a good job because it's working and people are still purchasing the cars albeit with the options.