RW Carbon 3D Designs Style CF Front Lip HELP

[naiza3k]

I bought the RW Carbon 3D Designs Style CF Front Lip about a week go and finally got a chance to try installing it today, after hours wasted and front bumper super scratched up. Hate to say but the front lip is still not on the bumper....

Can anyone give me any pointers that have purchased this lip from RW Carbon? Could this be a defective piece I received? I'm just under 1cm off on both sides from fitting onto the bumper.

I feel like I could have saved myself a few hundred dollars and bought from Ebay. I have never had any issues putting ebay spoilers on my other cars and they fit perfect. Figured for my M5 I had to use all the right parts and went with the more expensive parts...

[ur20v]

Photos, photos and photos... These parts can be warped but photos will help

[mstmng]

Originally Posted by naiza3k

I bought the RW Carbon 3D Designs Style CF Front Lip about a week go and finally got a chance to try installing it today, after hours wasted and front bumper super scratched up. Hate to say but the front lip is still not on the bumper....

Can anyone give me any pointers that have purchased this lip from RW Carbon? Could this be a defective piece I received? I'm just under 1cm off on both sides from fitting onto the bumper.

I feel like I could have saved myself a few hundred dollars and bought from Ebay. I have never had any issues putting ebay spoilers on my other cars and they fit perfect. Figured for my M5 I had to use all the right parts and went with the more expensive parts...

RW carbon is replica and comes from china in any case
so its always hit or miss just like with ebay cf parts

[13M5F10]

Originally Posted by naiza3k

I bought the RW Carbon 3D Designs Style CF Front Lip about a week go and finally got a chance to try installing it today, after hours wasted and front bumper super scratched up. Hate to say but the front lip is still not on the bumper....

Can anyone give me any pointers that have purchased this lip from RW Carbon? Could this be a defective piece I received? I'm just under 1cm off on both sides from fitting onto the bumper.

I feel like I could have saved myself a few hundred dollars and bought from Ebay. I have never had any issues putting ebay spoilers on my other cars and they fit perfect. Figured for my M5 I had to use all the right parts and went with the more expensive parts...

Have you called / emailed them?

Should fit perfectly on each side.

@mcarsfan and I both have RW Carbon front lips.

Print him, I've seen this happen before. Could be a bad batch. Make sure that nothing else is keeping the lip from pushing forward further like underneath or in the grills

[naiza3k]

Originally Posted by 13M5F10

Have you called / emailed them?

Should fit perfectly on each side.

@mcarsfan and I both have RW Carbon front lips.

Print him, I've seen this happen before. Could be a bad batch. Make sure that nothing else is keeping the lip from pushing forward further like underneath or in the grills

Only reason I went with the rw was because I saw it in your car and the fitment. Or else I would have saved myself some money to buy eBay or more to buy another brand.

I had a friend who owns a shop help me and there's nothing. We will try taking the bumper off today me see if that helps.

Did you take your bumper off for the install?

I just feel for this amount of money I paid, I wished it would have had a better fitment. It's ridiculous...

I emailed them already about this too.

[sbassi]

Originally Posted by naiza3k

I bought the RW Carbon 3D Designs Style CF Front Lip about a week go and finally got a chance to try installing it today, after hours wasted and front bumper super scratched up. Hate to say but the front lip is still not on the bumper....

Can anyone give me any pointers that have purchased this lip from RW Carbon? Could this be a defective piece I received? I'm just under 1cm off on both sides from fitting onto the bumper.

I feel like I could have saved myself a few hundred dollars and bought from Ebay. I have never had any issues putting ebay spoilers on my other cars and they fit perfect. Figured for my M5 I had to use all the right parts and went with the more expensive parts...

I had this same problem and tried like 5 bumpers, RW seemed to think it was just me. I would call them and complain

[naiza3k]

Originally Posted by sbassi

I had this same problem and tried like 5 bumpers, RW seemed to think it was just me. I would call them and complain

What did you end up doing? Should I even bother taking the bumper off then and waste my time?

[13M5F10]

Originally Posted by naiza3k

Only reason I went with the rw was because I saw it in your car and the fitment. Or else I would have saved myself some money to buy eBay or more to buy another brand.

I had a friend who owns a shop help me and there's nothing. We will try taking the bumper off today me see if that helps.

Did you take your bumper off for the install?

I just feel for this amount of money I paid, I wished it would have had a better fitment. It's ridiculous...

I emailed them already about this too.

You don't need to remove the bumper to install it. It should slide right over and use the existing bolts to secure it.

It's unfortunately that you guys are going through this. I've recommended RW Carbon because of their fitment and customer service.

Sorry you are having to deal with this. Hopefully
RW Carbon can chime in.

[naiza3k]

Originally Posted by 13M5F10

You don't need to remove the bumper to install it. It should slide right over and use the existing bolts to secure it.

It's unfortunately that you guys are going through this. I've recommended RW Carbon because of their fitment and customer service.

Sorry you are having to deal with this. Hopefully
RW Carbon can chime in.

This isn't my first lip, in fact I've bought lips for all my cars (ALL Bimmers 3 series, 4 series, 5 series, x5) and this is the first time I've had issues with fitment. The ironic part is this is also the most I've spent on a front lip...

[naiza3k]

UPDATE
I just got back to the office from the shop and we had to do a lot of sanding to finally get the lip on the bumper. The price paid for this was definitely not worth it in my oppinon. I could have easily gone on Ebay to buy the lip there and saved myself almost $300 if I knew I had to do all this.

I hope the guys are RW will take care of this issue, most importantly let's see how they handle this situation for me.

[IND-Distribution]

It's unfortunate that companies like RW carbon take the hard work invested in design and engineering by companies like 3D Design, and create copies that are of an inferior fit and finish.

[naiza3k]

Originally Posted by Ilia@IND

It's unfortunate that companies like RW carbon take the hard work invested in design and engineering by companies like 3D Design, and create copies that are of an inferior fit and finish.

Agreed, but let's see how they handle customer service. If it's no service and also crappy parts then...

[sbassi]

Originally Posted by naiza3k

UPDATE
I just got back to the office from the shop and we had to do a lot of sanding to finally get the lip on the bumper. The price paid for this was definitely not worth it in my oppinon. I could have easily gone on Ebay to buy the lip there and saved myself almost $300 if I knew I had to do all this.

I hope the guys are RW will take care of this issue, most importantly let's see how they handle this situation for me.

For me they gave me a $200.00 refund due to the poor fitment. In my opinion they should have given me a full refund and call it a wash.

[IND-Distribution]

I'd like to have an open dialogue with the owners on this forum, regarding this issue. Many M5 owners are business owners themselves, and so understand the dynamics of markets and the manufacturing process intimately, so I believe that we can have a constructive conversation.

As many of you know, RW Carbon does not create original designs- they wait for another company (like 3D Design) to invest thousands into engineering, development, and tooling, and simply make a mold of the original part after the fact. Most 3D Design components are created from pre-preg material in an autoclave, and shipped over from Japan, so keeping prices low is a constant struggle for both IND as 3D's distributor and for 3D themselves. RW parts are created in a country with cheap labor (that may violate more human rights than some are comfortable with), and is made with vacuum infusion wet carbon for a far lower build quality (and clearly substantial fit and finish issues).

I know that the M community appreciates well made parts, created by honest people. I know that the M5 community specifically knows that for 3D Design, making the best part possible is a matter of personal honor, and that 3D components are second to none in terms of fit and finish.

I also understand market forces, and I understand that it is not possible to twist the arm of the market, and convince people to do something that they don't want.

So, my question is this: what would it take to eliminate purchasing of RW replica products, and to have M owners purchase the genuine component? A 50% reduction in price is not possible, and the solution may not lie in price point alone, but I would like to hear constructive feed back from my fellow M fans.

If it were not for companies like 3D Design, RKP, Vorsteiner, M Performance, Mode Carbon, and many others that create original designs that RW replicates, RW would have no parts to sell. I wonder if 3D's best bet is to simply stop designing carbon parts- at least then RW would be forced to invest some of his own effort.

I am being completely open and honest with my thoughts and feelings with the forum on this issue, and I look forward to feedback from the M community that I have loved and have been dedicated to serving for over 12 years.

[Onefastbeast]

I bought some parts from RW and the figment was poor. Had to return rear trunk spoiler. Mirrors were some what ok fitment. After they broke 2 mirror caps, the third was somewhat acceptable. Rear diffuser needed modifications. front center lip need lots of screws to keep it in place. I surely will not buy knock off carbon parts anymore. U get what u pay for.

[13M5F10]

Originally Posted by Ilia@IND

I'd like to have an open dialogue with the owners on this forum, regarding this issue. Many M5 owners are business owners themselves, and so understand the dynamics of markets and the manufacturing process intimately, so I believe that we can have a constructive conversation.

As many of you know, RW Carbon does not create original designs- they wait for another company (like 3D Design) to invest thousands into engineering, development, and tooling, and simply make a mold of the original part after the fact. Most 3D Design components are created from pre-preg material in an autoclave, and shipped over from Japan, so keeping prices low is a constant struggle for both IND as 3D's distributor and for 3D themselves. RW parts are created in a country with cheap labor (that may violate more human rights than some are comfortable with), and is made with vacuum infusion wet carbon for a far lower build quality (and clearly substantial fit and finish issues).

I know that the M community appreciates well made parts, created by honest people. I know that the M5 community specifically knows that for 3D Design, making the best part possible is a matter of personal honor, and that 3D components are second to none in terms of fit and finish.

I also understand market forces, and I understand that it is not possible to twist the arm of the market, and convince people to do something that they don't want.

So, my question is this: what would it take to eliminate purchasing of RW replica products, and to have M owners purchase the genuine component? A 50% reduction in price is not possible, and the solution may not lie in price point alone, but I would like to hear constructive feed back from my fellow M fans.

If it were not for companies like 3D Design, RKP, Vorsteiner, M Performance, Mode Carbon, and many others that create original designs that RW replicates, RW would have no parts to sell. I wonder if 3D's best bet is to simply stop designing carbon parts- at least then RW would be forced to invest some of his own effort.

I am being completely open and honest with my thoughts and feelings with the forum on this issue, and I look forward to feedback from the M community that I have loved and have been dedicated to serving for over 12 years.

I think it will be different for each person. I've had both Vorsteiner and RW Carbon parts and for me the quality and fitment were great.

The decision to go with RW over Vorsteiner on the front lip was simple, I didn't want to spend $3k+ on a front lip that was going to get torn off or scratched to hell. Sure enough on day #1 after install, I had a flat tire and the flat bed scraped the heck out of my front lip. In one year I replaced three different lips because of bad roads, inclines, etc. I couldn't justify having to spend 10k in total on lips.

I will agree Vorsteiner was far more superior than the RW replica and you paid the price for it. In my mind, if I can get a replica for half the price than the original with the same fitment and decent quality, I would go replica every time.

On my rear diffuser I went with Vorsteiner and did not mind spending the money. I also got most of it back in resale.

[apexlocator]

The answer is simply price. I am sure most who buy CF bolt ons do it for looks over function. Plus, maybe you can give insight as a manufacturer IND, why does a CF part cost more for these M cars than, say a much less expensive Japanese brand? Is it simply part of the cost of R&D to purchase the car to develop on? Or is it because you are aware of your market; those who can afford this level of car can afford to spend more? Or both?

Sorry to jack your thread OP.

[13M5F10]

Originally Posted by apexlocator

The answer is simply price. I am sure most who buy CF bolt ons do it for looks over function. Plus, maybe you can give insight as a manufacturer IND, why does a CF part cost more for these M cars than, say a much less expensive Japanese brand? Is it simply part of the cost of R&D to purchase the car to develop on? Or is it because you are aware of your market; those who can afford this level of car can afford to spend more? Or both?

Sorry to jack your thread OP.

It's a valid point and i find it ridiculous how much these CF parts costs. Agency Power is at least much more reasonable over Vorsteiner. What gets me is that I can go buy full Vorsteiner CF for the M3/4 for the price of one M5 front lip.

[naiza3k]

Originally Posted by apexlocator

The answer is simply price. I am sure most who buy CF bolt ons do it for looks over function. Plus, maybe you can give insight as a manufacturer IND, why does a CF part cost more for these M cars than, say a much less expensive Japanese brand? Is it simply part of the cost of R&D to purchase the car to develop on? Or is it because you are aware of your market; those who can afford this level of car can afford to spend more? Or both?

Sorry to jack your thread OP.

I'm in manufacturing and travel to Asia 4 to 5 times a year. The cost is the to make these compared to parts for m3 and m4. The prices are inflated due to the notion that if you can afford an m5, you can afford to spend more on the part.

Regarding what IND said about production, to be honest most Chinese factories make great quality products. It's those mom and pop factories that don't have QC process in place and pushing out low cost items that's the problem.

I have personally worked with carbon fiber for some development of my products and am very familiar with them and the manufacturing process.

[13M5F10]

Originally Posted by naiza3k

I'm in manufacturing and travel to Asia 4 to 5 times a year. The cost is the to make these compared to parts for m3 and m4. The prices are inflated due to the notion that if you can afford an m5, you can afford to spend more on the part.

Regarding what IND said about production, to be honest most Chinese factories make great quality products. It's those mom and pop factories that don't have QC process in place and pushing out low cost items that's the problem.

I have personally worked with carbon fiber for some development of my products and am very familiar with them and the manufacturing process.

I have seen in several instances that the factory making the CF for the original manufacturer is the one also selling the replicas in some instances.

I don't believe companies like RW are manufacturing the CF but rather acting as resellers.

[Darkshear]

I nearly purchased RW stuff a couple months ago right after I got my M5. I would have, were it not for Trinity Auto Sport that liquidated their Vorsteiner stuff from their demo car at thirty cents on the dollar.

@Ilia@IND, I deeply appreciate the craftsmanship and investment in design and manufacturing of the high end brands. But for me, like many others, it's hard to swallow the price. My M5 is my only car. It was my dream car, and I sacrificed nearly every luxury in life over the last 10 years to get it; it mattered that much to me. So that being said, I'm not a wealthy guy, I'm just an ordinary guy that was lucky enough to buy a used M5. There is no scenario in my universe where I could spend $6,139 on three 3D Design pieces.

The funny thing is, I could really give a damn about the carbon fiber aesthetics. I have been going for the white/black contrast look on the car, and I would have been perfectly fine with some decent ABS plastic aero parts painted gloss black. But as it turns out, this is an M car so you can either buy the best carbon fiber aero parts money can buy, or the cheapest shit knockoff parts money can buy.

Why isn't there anything in the middle?

If I buy 3D Design, I expect absolute perfection. But I do not require absolute perfection to be satisfied.

With any business, diversifying your offerings to the market helps your business grow, right? Imagine if 3D Design offered a "Value Line" of products. They would appeal to a market of buyers that previously would have not been able to consider their offerings, like me. Granted, I do not know the intricacies of carbon fiber manufacturing, but if it's possible for them to apply their incredible engineering skill set to a line of products that still provide a level of quality that is superior to eBay, Amazon, or other random offshore garbage, then I'd be all over it.

[Spoolin Montego]

Originally Posted by Ilia@IND

I'd like to have an open dialogue with the owners on this forum, regarding this issue. Many M5 owners are business owners themselves, and so understand the dynamics of markets and the manufacturing process intimately, so I believe that we can have a constructive conversation.

As many of you know, RW Carbon does not create original designs- they wait for another company (like 3D Design) to invest thousands into engineering, development, and tooling, and simply make a mold of the original part after the fact. Most 3D Design components are created from pre-preg material in an autoclave, and shipped over from Japan, so keeping prices low is a constant struggle for both IND as 3D's distributor and for 3D themselves. RW parts are created in a country with cheap labor (that may violate more human rights than some are comfortable with), and is made with vacuum infusion wet carbon for a far lower build quality (and clearly substantial fit and finish issues).

I know that the M community appreciates well made parts, created by honest people. I know that the M5 community specifically knows that for 3D Design, making the best part possible is a matter of personal honor, and that 3D components are second to none in terms of fit and finish.

I also understand market forces, and I understand that it is not possible to twist the arm of the market, and convince people to do something that they don't want.

So, my question is this: what would it take to eliminate purchasing of RW replica products, and to have M owners purchase the genuine component? A 50% reduction in price is not possible, and the solution may not lie in price point alone, but I would like to hear constructive feed back from my fellow M fans.

If it were not for companies like 3D Design, RKP, Vorsteiner, M Performance, Mode Carbon, and many others that create original designs that RW replicates, RW would have no parts to sell. I wonder if 3D's best bet is to simply stop designing carbon parts- at least then RW would be forced to invest some of his own effort.

I am being completely open and honest with my thoughts and feelings with the forum on this issue, and I look forward to feedback from the M community that I have loved and have been dedicated to serving for over 12 years.

You should probably educate yourself on the products you sell. Most 3d parts are in fact fiberglass backing with cf overlay, made exactly how replica parts are made.

pic of F10 m5 3d diffuser since I am sure you don't believe me: