Modified '13 m5 Suspected Motor Knock VIDEO

[f10eugene]

Hey guys,

I just wanted to share with you my recent experience with my m5. Last month I competed in the half mile event. The m5 ran beautifully the entire day..trapping 157 and 159 (twice) from a 40mph roll. I was running a blend of 93 and 100 octane; the car is FBO (Flash tune, no JB4, catless downpipes and BMC filters). Last year it made 655whp and 685wtq on a dynojet with the same fuel mixture. Overall I made about 8 or 9 passes. After a few passes, the car asked for a quart of oil, which I added. On the last pass of the day, I come off the track and hear a ticking noise coming from the engine bay. The noise frequency increased under load but then seemed to decrease after 5k RPM's, very strange. After unsuccessfully trying to diagnose where the noise is coming from, I decided to drive the car back home (150 mile trip back).

To my surprise the car made it back without any CEL's or further complications. Once I got home, I took the car to my buddie's shop to do further diagnostics. First we checked the oil fitler and oil, it was clean with no metal shavings. We then used a stethascope to listen where the noise was coming from. Valvetrain sounded quiet, however, the noise was noticeably louder near the downpipes heathshield. Optimistically, I thought it could be a bad gasket which was causing an exhaust leak. I bought some new gaskets and decided to put the stock downpipes in; turned on the car and the noise was still there.

Extremely upset and frustrated, I needed to quickly figure out a plan of action since I daily drive my m5 and don't have other alternatives. Buying a used motor or rebuilding the old motor and having the car down was not an option for me. After unsuccessfully trying to trade it in for same exact spec certified one, I decided to take it to carmax. The evaluator took it for a somewhat spirited but quick test drive, car survived but he heard the noise. Even with the noise, they still made an offer (lowball). After a day or two of sitting on the offer, i decided to put the car back to stock and sell it to carmax. In those couple of days, I went back to the dealer and purchased the certified m5 and added the maintenance program. Once i had the new m5 in my posession, I took the old one into carmax.

Takeaways:

1. Knowing that you have a ticking time bomb in your garage is extemely unsettling and I don't wish it upon anybody.

2. This can happen to anyone. I am a complete OCD owner and have always been ahead of all scheduled maintenance. Car was driven hard but not driven dumb; always garaged and properly warmed up prior to spirited driving.

3. I have learned that when the car asks for a quart to add 2 quarts, instead.

4. I WILL NEVER OWN ANOTHER M WITHOUT A WARRANTY.

I hope this thread was helpful to you.

Looking forward to discussion,

Eugene

[SakM_5]

Originally Posted by f10eugene

Hey guys,

I just wanted to share with you my recent experience with my m5. Last month I competed in the half mile event. The m5 ran beautifully the entire day..trapping 157 and 159 (twice) from a 40mph roll. I was running a blend of 93 and 100 octane; the car is FBO (Flash tune, no JB4, catless downpipes and BMC filters). Last year it made 655whp and 685wtq on a dynojet with the same fuel mixture. Overall I made about 8 or 9 passes. After a few passes, the car asked for a quart of oil, which I added. On the last pass of the day, I come off the track and hear a ticking noise coming from the engine bay. The noise frequency increased under load but then seemed to decrease after 5k RPM's, very strange. After unsuccessfully trying to diagnose where the noise is coming from, I decided to drive the car back home (150 mile trip back).

To my surprise the car made it back without any CEL's or further complications. Once I got home, I took the car to my buddie's shop to do further diagnostics. First we checked the oil fitler and oil, it was clean with no metal shavings. We then used a stethascope to listen where the noise was coming from. Valvetrain sounded quiet, however, the noise was noticeably louder near the downpipes heathshield. Optimistically, I thought it could be a bad gasket which was causing an exhaust leak. I bought some new gaskets and decided to put the stock downpipes in; turned on the car and the noise was still there.

Extremely upset and frustrated, I needed to quickly figure out a plan of action since I daily drive my m5 and don't have other alternatives. Buying a used motor or rebuilding the old motor and having the car down was not an option for me. After unsuccessfully trying to trade it in for same exact spec certified one, I decided to take it to carmax. The evaluator took it for a somewhat spirited but quick test drive, car survived but he heard the noise. Even with the noise, they still made an offer (lowball). After a day or two of sitting on the offer, i decided to put the car back to stock and sell it to carmax. In those couple of days, I went back to the dealer and purchased the certified m5 and added the maintenance program. Once i had the new m5 in my posession, I took the old one into carmax.

Takeaways:

1. Knowing that you have a ticking time bomb in your garage is extemely unsettling and I don't wish it upon anybody.

2. This can happen to anyone. I am a complete OCD owner and have always been ahead of all scheduled maintenance. Car was driven hard but not driven dumb; always garaged and properly warmed up prior to spirited driving.

3. I have learned that when the car asks for a quart to add 2 quarts, instead.

4. I WILL NEVER OWN ANOTHER M WITHOUT A WARRANTY.

I hope this thread was helpful to you.

Looking forward to discussion,

Eugene

How many miles did the car have?

[BinH]

Sheesh. What flash did you have that made 655whp?

[allmotor_2000]

Unfortunately that's a bent rod.... glad you have moved on and can put this behind.

[TrevorM3]

Originally Posted by BinH

Sheesh. What flash did you have that made 655whp?

pretty much any flash can get you there.. lol


also, overtime I hear about oil, I think about bmw's idiotic electronic dipstick

[RPiM5]

Was probably a bent rod. Hard to say without further investigation though. Like I have said before, the stock internals can't handle hard driving like you described on any sort of tune. I would say the most you could possibly do is a BMS Stage 1, but any more than that all bets are off on reliability depending on how hard it's driven.

[BinH]

Originally Posted by TrevorM3

pretty much any flash can get you there.. lol

also, overtime I hear about oil, I think about bmw's idiotic electronic dipstick

Well aware... I was trying to see which one was on the car. Found it...

[allmotor_2000]

With any sort of tune you have to run high octane fuel all the time. The pre-ignition event can vary in severity but rods bend either due to hydro lock or it's being forced down while it isn't all the way up yet! At the event I am sure the OP ran good fuel, but damage could have been prior.

At the 750whp level I was running 99-100 octane plus meth all the time. I recommend the following:

Stock: 93 octane
Any flash tune: 97 octane or 93+meth
>25psi: 97 octane or higher with 100% meth

[Kisenwether]

Just curious and no means is this trying to flame you, but if you dont ever want to own another M without a warranty then you cant really flash tune the new one right?

[evilb]

Good thread. Subbing

[josec70]

Originally Posted by Kisenwether

Just curious and no means is this trying to flame you, but if you dont ever want to own another M without a warranty then you cant really flash tune the new one right?

I don't want to speak on behalf of the OP but I believe w/o a warranty there is zero chance of getting something like what occurred covered. If you're tuned but under warranty, there's a chance it does get covered. There's another active thread on this right now.

[Kisenwether]

Originally Posted by josec70

I don't want to speak on behalf of the OP but I believe w/o a warranty there is zero chance of getting something like what occurred covered. If you're tuned but under warranty, there's a chance it does get covered. There's another active thread on this right now.

As far as i know you cant really hide a flash tune, plus no way would bmw cover a bent rod if there is a tune. They know what people do to these cars, Im sure they would do a big investigation before granting a new s63tu.

[13M5F10]

Originally Posted by Kisenwether

As far as i know you cant really hide a flash tune, plus no way would bmw cover a bent rod if there is a tune. They know what people do to these cars, Im sure they would do a big investigation before granting a new s63tu.

Is honestly hit or miss. Some dealers and BMW engineers will give you a hard time while others will truely diagnose the issue and if the issue isn't due to mod, then they cover it. I know two guys who had similar mods as I and blew their motors and BMW covered both under warranty and both were heavily modded.

[allmotor_2000]

Taking a heavily modded car with a blown motor for warranty is unethical.

[PetrolFumes]

OP sorry for your pain. This sucks but you made out ok. I'm actually happy to see this is the first time a post like this has been out here. coming from an E92 there were dozens of rod bearing failures and knock videos. glad to see this engine is much stronger overall with less incidence

[josec70]

Originally Posted by Kisenwether

As far as i know you cant really hide a flash tune, plus no way would bmw cover a bent rod if there is a tune. They know what people do to these cars, Im sure they would do a big investigation before granting a new s63tu.

I'm not saying you can hide a flash tune in the least bit.

What I'm saying is that a tune is not always the reason for this type of failure and that it "may" be covered under warranty if it is determined the tune was not the cause. If you have no warranty this is not a possibility.

I think we all know the price to play the game and some of the established safer parameters for tunes.

I have had many tuned cars and "knock on wood" no issues thus far and zero warranty claims. Should the sh-t hit the fan and the tune's to blame it's on me plain and simple ....

[allmotor_2000]

Originally Posted by josec70

I'm not saying you can hide a flash tune in the least bit.

What I'm saying is that a tune is not always the reason for this type of failure and that it "may" be covered under warranty if it is determined the tune was not the cause. If you have no warranty this is not a possibility.

I think we all know the price to play the game and some of the established safer parameters for tunes.

It's possible but very hard to justify. Ex., say it was a injector stuck open and blew the motor. It very well could have happened with all stock. But if I were tuned then the dealer may say the high fuel pressure or duty cycle caused excessive wear and premature failure.

If it's unrelated to the engine, dealers will often overlook.

[josec70]

Originally Posted by allmotor_2000

It's possible but very hard to justify. Ex., say it was a injector stuck open and blew the motor. It very well could have happened with all stock. But if I were tuned then the dealer may say the high fuel pressure or duty cycle caused excessive wear and premature failure.

If it's unrelated to the engine, dealers will often overlook.

No argument here ... that's why I said "may" be covered.

[ARC550]

Great thread!
Question did you notice an odd oil consumptions in days/weeks leading to race even you attended and or after?

[carrera2RSL]

Thanks for the heads up. Definitely happy with stock CP power, this reminds me everything has its limits and the closer you get to them the less room for error

Hydraulic lock us an interesting point with meths or other

[f10eugene]

Originally Posted by Kisenwether

Just curious and no means is this trying to flame you, but if you dont ever want to own another M without a warranty then you cant really flash tune the new one right?

Correct, I am not planning to flash or even do catless dp's with the new one...for now LOL...car is unbelievably slow, compared to my last one. In fact, when I first drove it, I thought it had a boost leak. Nearly 200whp is not a small difference, by any means.

Originally Posted by ARC550

Great thread!
Question did you notice an odd oil consumptions in days/weeks leading to race even you attended and or after?

Nothing out of the ordinary.

Originally Posted by Kisenwether

As far as i know you cant really hide a flash tune, plus no way would bmw cover a bent rod if there is a tune. They know what people do to these cars, Im sure they would do a big investigation before granting a new s63tu.

The only way to hide it, according to my tuner, is to buy a second set of DME's and in case shit hits the fan, drop those in.

Last year, shortly after I tuned it, I ruptured a coil at very high speeds. The coil split so violently that it backfired and burned one of the fuses on the DME. The dealer had to create what's called a puma case for BMW to review. BMW noticed immediately that the car was tuned and denied the warranty claim to replace the DME. What's interesting is that I did some research and saw that some '13's (i forget which vin number range) came with faulty coils. In fact, the week prior to this coil blowing, I was in the dealer replacing another coil (I think first cylinder 5 then cylinder 1). Long story short, when the first coil failed, i asked dealer to replace all of them, but according to them, BMW only covers the component that failed and doesn't do"preventative" maintenace. Anyways, the dealer tried to hit me with a 3k bill to replace the blown DME. After learning that the dealer cost on this coil is roughly $800, I threw a shit fit. Dealer had to get BMW of NA involved and they ended up charging me their cost to replace the DME.

Long story short, if your car has modified parameters (boost, fuel, timing), you are taking a chance on warranty claims, especially if the job is expensive. Once BMW finds out that those parameters are modified, they make a permenanet note in their system, which follows the car for the life of it. I've learned that even having good connections with techs and service advisors does not mean that you're 100% safe.

[VoytekM5]

so the takeaway is to trade in a broken car?

Wonder what the problem is... I'm in st charles if you ever want to hear turner pipes, the only mod I did that satisfied my craving for more mods.

btw I have a chinese knock off CF spoiler and diffuser sitting in my garage if you're interested. decided not to install after I put on the turners lol