How many M5's sold in US / year?

[E90potentialbuyer]

How exclusive is the M5 club in US? Trying to figure out how many are sold in US / year and is there a heavy concentration in 1 area over another. Thoughts?

[Tylerstar]

My guess would be anywhere from 2000-3000 a year. Maybe more, all I know is if bmw had kept the residual in the 48-52 percent range this car would be extremely exclusive. Instead they flooded the market.

[E90potentialbuyer]

Originally Posted by Tylerstar

My guess would be anywhere from 2000-3000 a year. Maybe more, all I know is if bmw had kept the residual in the 48-52 percent range this car would be extremely exclusive. Instead they flooded the market.

Hang on - isn't residual factor a result of what will be the expected value of the car after he lease is up. So isn't BMW going to screw itself if they artificially drive up residual (so get in lease payments) and then are not able to sell the cars for that much post lease. I think the cars are holding fine on residuals - 2013 100k stickers with average mileage are selling for a bit above 70k.

Don't think that's it.

[Tylerstar]

As far as Im concerned residual is just really an estimated value not the corrected market value. If bmw drives up the residual that makes the car more financially affordable for more people. ( More money for bmw) Most people are leasing these cars not buying. And thats exactly what bmw did. They put the residual at 48% pretty much making people buy them. At this time the car was extremely exclusive. If bmw had kept it at this rate and limited supply, would it not be extremely exclusive? Im pretty sure it would and therfor these cars would hold there value much much better.

[Netwon]

In Canada the residuals are in the 42-50% range, thus our 36mo leases are 2000-2550 (depending on mileage and equip) a month not the unbelievable deals State side.

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by Netwon

In Canada the residuals are in the 42-50% range, thus our 36mo leases are 2000-2550 (depending on mileage and equip) a month not the unbelievable deals State side.

Here in US with 2550 you can get 2 M5!
That's why I left Canada

[MDyDinanM]

Post deleted

[stealth.pilot]

Originally Posted by E90potentialbuyer

Hang on - isn't residual factor a result of what will be the expected value of the car after he lease is up. So isn't BMW going to screw itself if they artificially drive up residual (so get in lease payments) and then are not able to sell the cars for that much post lease. I think the cars are holding fine on residuals - 2013 100k stickers with average mileage are selling for a bit above 70k.

Don't think that's it.

BMW regularly screws themselves on residual. They make it up on artificially inflated selling prices. BMWs pricing is above Mercedes, Audi and everyone else. About $10k more than a comparably equipped Benz. So they can afford the residual hit. Unfortunately this screws people who buy these cars instead of leasing them. Quite frankly I would never buy a new BMW were it not for the fact that I can get it at ED Invoice. Used BMWs are a much better deal - esp 1 year old.

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by stealth.pilot

BMW regularly screws themselves on residual. They make it up on artificially inflated selling prices. BMWs pricing is above Mercedes, Audi and everyone else. About $10k more than a comparably equipped Benz. So they can afford the residual hit. Unfortunately this screws people who buy these cars instead of leasing them. Quite frankly I would never buy a new BMW were it not for the fact that I can get it at ED Invoice. Used BMWs are a much better deal - esp 1 year old.

I do agree that for some models (650, M5, M6) pricing is above Mercedes and Audi, but for the other models it is pretty much close to their pricing. On the other hand for those models indeed we are paying the price of free maintenance up front! I believe M5/M6 in 4 years/50000 miles which is the warranty coverage period, have 5-10K maintenance fee!

[E90potentialbuyer]

Originally Posted by Tylerstar

As far as Im concerned residual is just really an estimated value not the corrected market value. If bmw drives up the residual that makes the car more financially affordable for more people. ( More money for bmw) Most people are leasing these cars not buying. And thats exactly what bmw did. They put the residual at 48% pretty much making people buy them. At this time the car was extremely exclusive. If bmw had kept it at this rate and limited supply, would it not be extremely exclusive? Im pretty sure it would and therfor these cars would hold there value much much better.

Got it. Would be interesting to see where residuals are heading towards.

[sdg1871]

Originally Posted by stealth.pilot

BMW regularly screws themselves on residual. They make it up on artificially inflated selling prices. BMWs pricing is above Mercedes, Audi and everyone else. About $10k more than a comparably equipped Benz. So they can afford the residual hit. Unfortunately this screws people who buy these cars instead of leasing them. Quite frankly I would never buy a new BMW were it not for the fact that I can get it at ED Invoice. Used BMWs are a much better deal - esp 1 year old.

You are right Stealth. BMW's prices for the M5 are significantly higher than for a comparably equipped E63 S -- on the order of $10k.

But given BMW's low low money factors and the ability to apply MSDs to reduce the money factor even further on an already discounted promotional rate (MB only allows MSDs on standard money factors and not on discounted/promotional money factors) and given BMW's high residual values on the M5, it is considerably cheaper to lease an M5 than an E63.

However, for purchase, the E63 S is the cheaper car. And even without ED, dealers will sell them for as low as $1,500 under invoice (about $8,500 under sticker) minus manufacture to dealer cash or fleet incentives ($3000-$3500) for a total discount of about $12,000 on a US delivery car (ED discounts for the car are considerably less than BMW -- 5% off US MSRP and no destination charge -- best deal I could get on ED for an E63 S from about 20 dealers I contacted was about 7.5% off US MSRP so no financial incentive to do it unlike BMW ED).

MB really discourages leasing on its AMG cars and pushes people to buy. BMW seems to really incentivize leasing the F10 M5.

I just went through the F10 M5 vs E63 S buying decision process so this information is pretty fresh in my head.

[E90potentialbuyer]

Good information. Thanks. Leasing is probably the way to go on this (but I know I will end up buying). I haven't done the math on this, but I am guessing that if you decided to lease it and then at the end of 3 years, decided to buy the same car, the penalty would be pretty stiff? Pretty sure math would be ridiculously not in favor, but anyone done that math / thought about that?

[variable229]

Originally Posted by E90potentialbuyer

Good information. Thanks. Leasing is probably the way to go on this (but I know I will end up buying). I haven't done the math on this, but I am guessing that if you decided to lease it and then at the end of 3 years, decided to buy the same car, the penalty would be pretty stiff? Pretty sure math would be ridiculously not in favor, but anyone done that math / thought about that?

You can land the car lease at any dealer and negotiate the buyback price near the current Manheim auction price. In addition waive the turn in fee and have an option of buying certified pre owned warranty instead of extended warranty.

[E90potentialbuyer]

Originally Posted by variable229

You can land the car lease at any dealer and negotiate the buyback price near the current Manheim auction price. In addition waive the turn in fee and have an option of buying certified pre owned warranty instead of extended warranty.

Variable - can we chat offline? Sending you a pm. Thanks