2013 M5 Not liking the cold weather (engine/transmission)

[CSL335i]

As I also have a p3 Gauge on my F10 m5, i can monitor the water temperature as well. I am using Motul 300V Power 5W40 Ester based oil.
I can clearly confirm, that during warm up period water reaches sooner the operating temperature (102C) than oil (90C). To be exact, water reaches 102C and oil is at 70C at this time.

[GratefulM5]

Originally Posted by saflang

I am still thinking it the cold weather as the shifts have been great for the past two months before the temperature dropped.

I agree with you 1000%. I have had the same experience with mine and recently it's been in the upper 20s-40s here the past week... My daily commute during the week is short (the car never reached optimal temp) so I haven't had a chance to drive it "warm" to compare... Maybe I will this weekend in some of the freezing rain we're supposed to get!

[skrambles297]

My car is usually garaged, but I was away with the car during the week and it got iced over. When I got in it, it had been out in freezing temps for more than 12 hrs. The outside temp was 0.5 degs C when I fired the car up and it wasn't jerky at all. Maybe sustained exposure to low temps over a longer period would change that.

[alexey21]

Cold weather makes the cold car run rough and jerky. At least until it warms up. My M5 would stand for 5mins idling while I walk to the dog, id get in and drive slowly till operating temperatures. But for the first 5 or 10 mins the transmission would produce a "whine" while i let go of the gas and coast to a stop sign or red light.

[JOHNBMWM5]

I just don't get any of this at all, temps near freezing in the mornings, just get in start up and go , as for warming it up no chance, and it drives perfect, must be the LCI has some changes for the better.

[saflang]

My car is now sleeping in the garage overnight so it's only getting down to 10-12'c. But I have noticed something else, without the engine fully warmed up, in neutral, if I quickly hit the accelerator and have the revs jump up to about 3000 and let go, the RPM's drop below idle causing the car to shudder. (Did this once to spook the wife) But this may have given me a lot more insight to the problem, as when it's changing gears in D1 it's keeping the Rev's low and during the gear change it could be dropping below idle. I don't notice the problem when driving on open roads, but if there is a lot of stop-and-go when the engine is still cold this is when I 'feel' the problem.

[deathray]

Originally Posted by deathray

I find it can be a bit sluggish when it's cold, but for me anyways, it goes away in the first minute or so. I also always drive on S3 with the most direct throttle response, so, I am also pretty adjusted to any sort of jerkiness on downshifting.

Does your car feel like it's having any control issues or is it just slightly less smooth? Might be an indication of another problem.

I do find that if it's cold enough outside (say, below -30) the gear changes can be extremely slow until the transmission warms up.

Originally Posted by johnbmw6

I just don't get any of this at all, temps near freezing in the mornings, just get in start up and go , as for warming it up no chance, and it drives perfect, must be the LCI has some changes for the better.

Just to clarify my comments. I havent noticed any sort of roughness unless Ive parked outside over night and it's -5 to -10 C or below. Even at those temperatures it's usually fine within a minute or two of driving. The really noticeable problems are only when it's extremely cold.

[bobafettt]

Originally Posted by johnbmw6

I just don't get any of this at all, temps near freezing in the mornings, just get in start up and go , as for warming it up no chance, and it drives perfect, must be the LCI has some changes for the better.

^this
Driving at 20F (-6C)
No problems
Except have to warm up the PSSs

[JOHNBMWM5]

Originally Posted by deathray

Just to clarify my comments. I havent noticed any sort of roughness unless Ive parked outside over night and it's -5 to -10 C or below. Even at those temperatures it's usually fine within a minute or two of driving. The really noticeable problems are only when it's extremely cold.

Now those temperatures I have NOT experienced yet.

[skrambles297]

Originally Posted by bobafettt

^this
Driving at 20F (-6C)
No problems
Except have to warm up the PSSs

What are the PSSs like in -6c (when warmed up)? I've been quite happy with them down to 0c - they behave quite predictably down to that temperature i.e. only squirm when you get over zealous with the gas pedal.

(I ask the question because I'm still weighing up not buying winter alloys/tyres)

[JOHNBMWM5]

Originally Posted by skrambles297

What are the PSSs like in -6c (when warmed up)? I've been quite happy with them down to 0c - they behave quite predictably down to that temperature i.e. only squirm when you get over zealous with the gas pedal.

(I ask the question because I'm still weighing up not buying winter alloys/tyres)

They will be like "Bricks"
Unsafe IMO.

[skrambles297]

Originally Posted by johnbmw6

They will be like "Bricks"
Unsafe IMO.

Yeah, the sensible thing to do would be to get a set of winters, but I've been quoted £3,500 for a set of 20" alloys and Dunlop 3d tyres from BMW (which seem to be old tech) - to get Michelin Alpins costs even more. (Don't get me wrong, I may still end up getting some, but I'm finding it a little difficult to justify the cost because I can catch the train to London and leave the m5 in the garage during icy periods!!)

[JOHNBMWM5]

Originally Posted by skrambles297

Yeah, the sensible thing to do would be to get a set of winters, but I've been quoted £3,500 for a set of 20" alloys and Dunlop 3d tyres from BMW (which seem to be old tech) - to get Michelin Alpins costs even more. (Don't get me wrong, I may still end up getting some, but I'm finding it a little difficult to justify the cost because I can catch the train to London and leave the m5 in the garage during icy periods!!)

Lots here: then add the tyres you want:
Remember to add TPM Valves
http://www.wheelbasealloys.com/alloy...nch-wider-rear

[bobafettt]

Originally Posted by skrambles297

Yeah, the sensible thing to do would be to get a set of winters, but I've been quoted £3,500 for a set of 20" alloys and Dunlop 3d tyres from BMW (which seem to be old tech) - to get Michelin Alpins costs even more. (Don't get me wrong, I may still end up getting some, but I'm finding it a little difficult to justify the cost because I can catch the train to London and leave the m5 in the garage during icy periods!!)

They seem to be fine. I tried to break them loose cornering once "warmed up" and they handled fine. Please note my M5 will not see snow or rain as I have a second car. I would not however try these tires in the snow or freezing rain. Why subject a $100k car to the elements if you don't have to? Take the train and don't wreck your car or get a winter car. Also, we use salt on the roads here which is a car killer. I usually rinse the undercarriage off after this torture at a carwash. My M5 will not see one of those either. I would like to eventually code my car for tire temp. Then I could speak with a bit more empirical data.

[DrewM5]

Originally Posted by skrambles297

Yeah, the sensible thing to do would be to get a set of winters, but I've been quoted £3,500 for a set of 20" alloys and Dunlop 3d tyres from BMW (which seem to be old tech) - to get Michelin Alpins costs even more. (Don't get me wrong, I may still end up getting some, but I'm finding it a little difficult to justify the cost because I can catch the train to London and leave the m5 in the garage during icy periods!!)

You need be careful and to understand the limitations of high performance summer tires in the winter. It is not just ice and snow that are the problem. These tires are soft and sticky and will become very firm (and thus not sticky at all) when the temps drop. IMHO, these tires are completely unsuited for any whether below freezing . Not to mention that they will be very dangerous for handling and braking, they will also wear much, much quicker during the cold temps. So you are actually reducing your overall tire cost to switch out to winter rubber in the winters. Maybe not enough to offset the cost of the wheels as well, but it still does lower the overall "cost" that you are considering.

By way of reference, do you remember being a kid and driving (well, peddling) your Big Wheel with the hard plastic wheels?

[skrambles297]

Thanks guys - you've prompted me to re-think - I'm going to do some more shopping around. So far, I've been offered 255/35 Dunlop 3d tyres all round, on BMW 409M alloys - do you think they'd look weird at the rear?

[JOHNBMWM5]

Originally Posted by skrambles297

Thanks guys - you've prompted me to re-think - I'm going to do some more shopping around. So far, I've been offered 255/35 Dunlop 3d tyres all round, on BMW 409M alloys - do you think they'd look weird at the rear?

Yes if the off sets are wrong.
My 20" off sets are 15 ET fronts 20 ET rears, this is the max and right on the edge of the wings, looks great though.
255/35/ front good 275/35/ rears look good too.

[w5pwr]

Originally Posted by skrambles297

Thanks guys - you've prompted me to re-think - I'm going to do some more shopping around. So far, I've been offered 255/35 Dunlop 3d tyres all round, on BMW 409M alloys - do you think they'd look weird at the rear?

I am interested in a set, maybe we can join forces and get a better price?

[skrambles297]

Originally Posted by johnbmw6

Yes if the off sets are wrong.
My 20" off sets are 15 ET fronts 20 ET rears, this is the max and right on the edge of the wings, looks great though.
255/35/ front good 275/35/ rears look good too.

Thanks John. Did you have any hassle getting hold of the tyres?

[skrambles297]

Originally Posted by w5pwr

I am interested in a set, maybe we can join forces and get a better price?

Are you interested in getting them from BMW? I've been offered 2 options so far: £3,500 for 255/35 Dunlop 3d tyres all round, on BMW 409M alloys or £5,600 for a new set of the standard 20" m5 alloys fitted with Michelin PA4s! Really not sure what to do now.

[JOHNBMWM5]

Originally Posted by skrambles297

Thanks John. Did you have any hassle getting hold of the tyres?

No supplied with the wheels full cost £2400, you can negotiate a bit with them.

[JOHNBMWM5]

Originally Posted by skrambles297

Are you interested in getting them from BMW? I've been offered 2 options so far: £3,500 for 255/35 Dunlop 3d tyres all round, on BMW 409M alloys or £5,600 for a new set of the standard 20" m5 alloys fitted with Michelin PA4s! Really not sure what to do now.

That Michelin price was way over the top.