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      11-07-2013, 02:27 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DINAN_GT View Post
+1

I still don't understand why 80% of BMWs tested on MotorTrend are given to Jonny Liberman. Sure, the M5 is not perfect, but Liberman always seemed to have something against BMW, and he loves to over exaggerate the M5's flaws.

Next time they should give it to Carlos Lagos. He is not biased towards BMWs, but he gives very honest reviews about them.
lieberman is just an idiot in general....i really dont know how he got to be one of the reviewers...i mean his driving skill is just pure crap.

carlos lago did do the comp M5 review though.
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      11-07-2013, 02:29 PM   #24
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but this M5 in this color (is it sakhir orange?) is (in the words of every single english car reviewer) absolutely utterly utterly brilliant/wonderful/fantastic (or for us US folks...is pretty fucking badass!)
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      11-07-2013, 02:35 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by bmellion View Post
Johnny Liebermann is an idiot.
+1!!! Lieberman is the worst automotive "journalist" I've ever had the displeasure of reading in more than 35 years.
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      11-07-2013, 02:35 PM   #26
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Isn't the beauty of the M5 the fact that it can turn from a 'touring' luxury sedan to a 'supercar' at the touch of a button. I love all of the buttons it has, it allows me to set up the car for almost any road type or condition (or passenger requirement). It's actually one of the things I brag about the car the most, the fact that it can become almost anything I want. And I think 3 settings per option isn't overkill at all.
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      11-07-2013, 02:43 PM   #27
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Wow, some really upset fanboys here. Fact of the matter is BMWs are very expensive compared to other cars with similar features. They SHOULD be under more scrutiny bc any buyer with common sense is going to say "tell me why I'm paying more for x compared to y. Or is it just for the name?"

Also, BMW interiors are a little on the cheap side this generation. They're cutting costs and it shows. Why not hold them accountable for that too? I personally don't like the look of Caddy's but they have caught up to BMW in technology and quality and usually cost less. Hopefully that increased competition spurs BMW to do more rather than give less.
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      11-07-2013, 02:53 PM   #28
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One thing that i've noticed consistently popping up in journalist reviews is that the settings/infotainment/controls are too complicated.

They want to just be able to get in and be able to know how to do everything. Sure, some systems are not setup very well but the average car owner keeps their car for what? 5-8 years? Most of the time once you learn how to use the functions it's not a bad thing at all.
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      11-07-2013, 02:55 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tturedraider View Post
+1!!! Lieberman is the worst automotive "journalist" I've ever had the displeasure of reading in more than 35 years.
LOL i'm glad i'm not the only guy that thinks Lieberman is a hack. I think the guy is a complete douche. I love watching the Motortrend channel on Youtube but everytime he stars in an episode i have to turn it off.
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      11-07-2013, 03:08 PM   #30
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M5 is a heavy, fast, luxurious, boat. Of course it is isolated from the outside, surely anybody paying that kind of cash does not want any road/wind noise or every surface bump transmitted into the cabin. They evaluated it as though it was supposed to be a race car.
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      11-07-2013, 04:26 PM   #31
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Drove a buddy's F10 M5 recently. With all due respect, I was very underwhelmed.

The weight is very noticeable especially on the twisties. The steering was awful.

The only thing I loved about it was the power at the low end.

Apart from that, I have to agree with the MT's assessments to date. My favorite M5 to date is the E39. JUST BLOODY PERFECT.
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      11-07-2013, 04:27 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chill72 View Post
M5 is a heavy, fast, luxurious, boat. Of course it is isolated from the outside, surely anybody paying that kind of cash does not want any road/wind noise or every surface bump transmitted into the cabin. They evaluated it as though it was supposed to be a race car.
Well what you describe sounds a bit more like a 750i but the point is generally right.

These guys completely miss the point of the M5.

My interpretation is this:

- Auto journalists are looking for a car which is fun to drive for a couple of hours on a test and a track. They are not looking for a car which is great to live with day after day for a couple of years.

- So they think of the review as like which is the best roller coaster ride rather than which is the best car.

- What they like, I would hate to drive every day. Because I am living with it, not just getting kicks for an hour.

- They love American cars out of some misplaced patriotism (they don't realize that the best of America is not GM but rather entrepreneurial businesses like Apple, Google, Tesla, the rich set of biotech companies we have fostered, etc.). I don't need to buy a Cadillac to be proud of the country I live in.

If I thought like an auto journalist I would probably have a Corvette or a Shelby and be miserable every day.
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      11-07-2013, 05:03 PM   #33
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Numb?
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      11-07-2013, 05:35 PM   #34
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Lest I'm considered a BMW fanboy, doesn't anyone else think that there are a bunch of cars on the list better than their choice that aren't BMW?

Heck if its going to be a GM car, the Vette should win hands-down... as the said, "The C7 is the best Vette ever built." 40 years from now, no one will even care about a CTS, but will seek out those Vettes.
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      11-07-2013, 06:24 PM   #35
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IMO

I think with an award like car of the year, a big part of it is surprise or wow factor. Outright performance numbers can be taken into account too, but the car of the year should be something shocking; something that has a story.

What's the story of the M5, or any new Bimmer for that matter? Powerful, comfortable, and effortless. Those aren't bad things, but they aren't really the same BMW brand attributes of the past. That's more what Mercedes used to be. The high torque engines, heavy weight, and comfort demanded by the luxury market all help to dilute the driving experience, which is the numbness that they're referring to. The newer cars might get to 100mph faster, but the drama in getting there from past models is lessening with every generation. Even in my dad's E90 you don't really feel the speed (while going straight at least). While there are encouraging things on the horizon, this is hardly a positive story, let alone one for car of the year.

A sub-3000 lb M2 would be a good story for car of the year
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      11-07-2013, 06:33 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stealth.pilot View Post
Well what you describe sounds a bit more like a 750i but the point is generally right.

These guys completely miss the point of the M5.

My interpretation is this:

- Auto journalists are looking for a car which is fun to drive for a couple of hours on a test and a track. They are not looking for a car which is great to live with day after day for a couple of years.

- So they think of the review as like which is the best roller coaster ride rather than which is the best car.

- What they like, I would hate to drive every day. Because I am living with it, not just getting kicks for an hour.

- They love American cars out of some misplaced patriotism (they don't realize that the best of America is not GM but rather entrepreneurial businesses like Apple, Google, Tesla, the rich set of biotech companies we have fostered, etc.). I don't need to buy a Cadillac to be proud of the country I live in.

If I thought like an auto journalist I would probably have a Corvette or a Shelby and be miserable every day.
^^What he said x 2
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      11-07-2013, 06:50 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo88 View Post
So the weak points of this car is having too much configurations that can be chosen, and being fast..... are they kidding?
Maybe the problem here is that BMW paid them less than competitors. I can't really figure out why the M5 is so heavy that they compare it to a bank vault, and the E63 AMG is good (4,389 lb vs 4048 lb).

The RS6 weight 4,431 lb so it's the whole segment that has grown in weight. In this context the M5 it's not a bad car, it's the reviewer that can't understand what "luxury sedan" means.
He says the speed is a good thing, if you continue through the post.
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      11-07-2013, 07:54 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aajami View Post
"Bulging fenders set over big wheels... give it a menacing, powerful look."

The M5 doesn't have any wider fenders than the standard F10, Motor Trend

Edit: I got told. Front fenders are wider.
Rears too - i think... Def were on the E60. I could have sworn the same is true of the F10. It's subtle, but it's there.

EDIT: did some googling - seems perhaps rear isn't flared. I could have sworn that when comparing F10 M5 against a regular F10, I could see a difference in the rear fender width. Maybe I'm just nuts. Probably..
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Last edited by dhirm5; 11-07-2013 at 08:04 PM..
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      11-07-2013, 08:07 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lawgone View Post
Also, BMW interiors are a little on the cheap side this generation. They're cutting costs and it shows. Why not hold them accountable for that too? I personally don't like the look of Caddy's but they have caught up to BMW in technology and quality and usually cost less. Hopefully that increased competition spurs BMW to do more rather than give less.
Not sure what you're referring to, but the current M5 interior is absolutely gorgeous; top notch materials -- much better than the last few generations. It's not even close.
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      11-07-2013, 08:23 PM   #40
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Plus 1!
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      11-07-2013, 09:07 PM   #41
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Reviews are fun to read, but I don't think everyone buy a car because it won the car of the year award.

100 mph isolated from road noise, bad? Considering this is a German car which was meant to be used on Autobahn on sections with no speed limit. I would call 100 mph cruising speed for the most part so if I was a car owner in Germany, I wouldn't want road noise while cruising.

There might be 243 configuration for the throttle, tranny etc. But I think users can choose a setting and save it on the M1 or M2 buttons on the steering if I recall. Complaining about too much setting in this case is like complaining what is the point of a 12 way power seat with adjustable lumbar support, theoretically it have just as much combination but no journalist ever complaint about too many adjustments for the power seat? Use the memory function, that's what its for.

I would prefer more options and flexibility instead of less.
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      11-07-2013, 09:37 PM   #42
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When are we going to stop blaming journalists and recognize the shortcomings of the car?

Are we really chalking this up to some anti-BMW conspiracy?
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      11-07-2013, 10:49 PM   #43
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Regarding the lack of simplicity with respect to the controls/settings, there is some merit to the claim that there's simply too much going on.

However, I think the preference for simplicity is subjective.

243 (if that's even correct) combinations do give the driver more control but I've been enjoying AMG's approach thus far. Three traction/handling modes: On, Sport (partially disabled nannies), Off (you're on your own). 4 transmission/throttle settings: Comfort, Sport, Sport+, Race Start. You can get where you want to be with the car's setup rather quickly.
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      11-07-2013, 10:53 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ybbiz34 View Post
Regarding the lack of simplicity with respect to the controls/settings, there is some merit to the claim that there's simply too much going on.

However, I think the preference for simplicity is subjective.

243 (if that's even correct) combinations do give the driver more control but I've been enjoying AMG's approach thus far. Three traction/handling modes: On, Sport (partially disabled nannies), Off (you're on your own). 4 transmission/throttle settings: Comfort, Sport, Sport+, Race Start. You can get where you want to be with the car's setup rather quickly.
That's not that different to what we have. We have transmission, throttle, suspension and steering, and all can be adjusted on a scale of 1-3. To me its remarkably intuitive and makes a ton of sense.

I was shopping for a car for my mother recently and she wanted to adjust steering weight. It's amazing how few cars have this feature! Motortrend calls it complexity, I call it convenience.

Plus the M1 and M2 buttons enable you to have 3 simple modes if that's all you want.
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