Who got the 2013 M5 and did not get the "Backrest Width" adjustment buttons?

[Rob///M5]

Got a call today from BMW Customer Service re: the seats. Jodi explained that there was an error in the documentation, and that the seat should have been described as 18-way from the start. When I asked why the US and Canada are not receiving the 20-way seats, she said that the issue has been escalated and to expect a call from someone else in 5-7 business days.

I really don't understand what the confusion is here people. It's a simple question.

Since I had her on the line, I probed about the delivery time for oil pumps. She first tells me that they don't know which cars are affected. I explain that there's a VIN list from BMW on the internet, and she says...well, the cars aren't updated in their system yet? Lastly, she confirms that the estimate on delivery time for the pumps is 2-3 weeks from Friday when the recall was announced.

I do appreciate the call, but had hoped it would bring some useful information.

[Infamous///M5]

Do you have to get the comfort seats is there a sport seat option like on the e60 ?

[apple555]

I second your thoughts. A 560hp performance car should have a sport seat that hugs and adjusts perfectly to the driver. The lousy seat, blown idrive system, non working satellite radio, crackling noise from the speakers, defective suspension that creaks and thunks over small speed bumps, defective oil pump, and multiple electrical shortages in the first two months of owning the car is un-acceptable. I have asked BMW to take my M5 back and I am waiting for a response.

[racer10]

Please keep us updated on how you make out. In the U.S. I feel the 20 way seat issue is , if you can believe it , a bigger customer issue than even the oil pump problem, for 2 straightforward reasons , a) I specifically bought the car wanting the 20 way seat which was in the advertised BMW specification and , b) a car with this performance needs it if you are to track it ( which is what it is intended to allow).

[M54ccibo]

Originally Posted by hinckley

I'm not sure that I understand that explanation. The 5GT, 6, M6 and 7 (not to mention my E60 550) have comfort seats -- all of them are 20-way comfort seats with adjustable side bolsters. And one other thing - the M5s in the rest of the world have comfort seats -- again, 20-way comfort seats.

fwiw, I think that there are two issues here. First, why were the side adjustments left off all North American F10s? If it was simple de-contenting, that makes me angry, but it's certainly not unethical. The second issue is the more serious one in my mind. The original US M5 specs stated 20-way seats. Many people purchased their M5s with that spec and BMW then delivered a lesser-spec'd vehicle. Imo, that's the real ethical/customer service issue.

I agree with you. I think there is some back pedaling going on and my gut tells me that this is not BMW driven per-se, rather, someone at the DOT/NHTSA that made this call. Then again, I've been wrong before.

[stealth.pilot]

Originally Posted by M54ccibo

I agree with you. I think there is some back pedaling going on and my gut tells me that this is not BMW driven per-se, rather, someone at the DOT/NHTSA that made this call. Then again, I've been wrong before.

I don't know. It raises questions why other OEMs haven't been affected.

[M54ccibo]

Originally Posted by Rob///M5

Got a call today from BMW Customer Service re: the seats. Jodi explained that there was an error in the documentation, and that the seat should have been described as 18-way from the start. When I asked why the US and Canada are not receiving the 20-way seats, she said that the issue has been escalated and to expect a call from someone else in 5-7 business days.

I really don't understand what the confusion is here people. It's a simple question.

Since I had her on the line, I probed about the delivery time for oil pumps. She first tells me that they don't know which cars are affected. I explain that there's a VIN list from BMW on the internet, and she says...well, the cars aren't updated in their system yet? Lastly, she confirms that the estimate on delivery time for the pumps is 2-3 weeks from Friday when the recall was announced.

I do appreciate the call, but had hoped it would bring some useful information.

The folks that most of us (myself included) are talking to seem to be customer service reps in a call center setting. Based on all of the conflicting information being handed out, I am taking everything with a grain of salt. Case in point, pumps. Is there a different process for a car which has been delivered to a customer vs. those which are on a boat coming off of ED? Of course, the delivered cars are not going back to the VDC. But there is still complete ambiguity on how this is going to be handled.

Keep us posted on the seats. I'm still looking for a good explanation.

[whiteM5]

for those of you that are going to ask bmw to buy the car back? i'm in a position of them agreeing to that due to other circumstances, but where would you go? i loved the car, its got some kinks to work out but i really don't like the benz or audi or cadi options. can you imagine driving a cadi rather than the M? please...

[AGS]

Originally Posted by M54ccibo

Case in point, pumps. Is there a different process for a car which has been delivered to a customer vs. those which are on a boat coming off of ED? Of course, the delivered cars are not going back to the VDC. But there is still complete ambiguity on how this is going to be handled.

What I've heard from various sources is that delivered cars will be repaird by the dealer and cars still en route will be repaired at the VDC.

[M54ccibo]

Originally Posted by AGS

What I've heard from various sources is that delivered cars will be repaird by the dealer and cars still en route will be repaired at the VDC.

+1. That is what I am reading too, but it is not 100% clear. The SA at my dealer has not commented.

[racer10]

Originally Posted by Racer Louis

As long as you asked --

My life isn't perfect, I'm unhappy, I have to find someone to sue! Don't you just love America!

I've been following this thread and the oil pump campaign thread and, personally, I find it sad the way some people are responding. I can discount those that clearly don't have a clue about how a product as complex as an M5 is designed and built, how problems are identified and addressed, or how long it takes to accomplish something in the absence of a magic button that can be pushed to instantly produce and install a part.

However, anyone that buys a new car and expects it to be perfect, and will "sue" if it's not, is not being rational. In the U. S. the J. D. Powers and Associates company has been publishing Initial Quality reports on how many defects and problems new cars have. It is by manufacturer and model. I don't recall seeing a single model that had none. If we all demanded perfect cars, that never broke or had a problem, we couldn't afford to buy them. So it is only safe to assume that a new car we buy may not be perfect. Stuff happens and how we deal with it will be more an illustration of what we are than what the company that tries it's best to fix the problem (without having the benefit of a magic button) is.

My car is on the list of cars that could have a defective oil pump. Do I wish that wasn't so--of course. Am I going to be inconvienced -- of course but I'll deal with it. But yelling and stomping my feet isn't going to make the problem go away. I want the problem fixed and by their actions I'm pretty sure BMW wants it fixed as well. I will work with them to get it fixed. Calling my lawyer doesn't seem like the best way to do this.

I also think it isn't correct for me to not accept responsibility for the consequences of my own decisions. If I don't carefully study the details of the contract I sign it is no one else's fault if I didn't get what I wanted. I wanted the adjustable side bolsters but I did enough research before signing my purchase agreement to know they weren't going to be available or included. I don't have a lot of sympathy for someone that assumed they'd get them based upon a cursory reading of their contract and didn't notice that they weren't included. As an aside, in the Owner's Manual, on almost every page, there is a statement that the manual describes features and functions that may not be on the car. I decided that the rest of the car was worth having so I bought it without the adjustable side bolsters. To me, saying you wouldn't buy the car had you known it didn't include the adjustable bolsters is like cutting off your nose to spite your face. For what it's worth, BMW is trying to get the U. S. Government safety bureaucrats to approve the adjustable side bolsters in the M5; they may become available in the future. I won't be disappointed if it does get approved because I accept the consequences of the decision I made to buy the car without them. That doesn't mean I wouldn't have liked to have had them available when I bought the car.

Life isn't perfect and that's ok with me because I have a new M5! It may not be perfect but I trust BMW to take care of fixing the one problem it has. It may not happen today but as far as I'm concerned it will be done in a reasonable time. I can deal with that.

I'm happy that you bought the car knowing that it didn't come with 20 way seats and can live with your decision. Alot of the rest of us didn't know because we were relying on the published M5 specifications for the U.S.. and as such were expecting them , maybe even counting on them for track use and certainly paying for them in accordance with the published BMW information for the U.S.. Further I agree and also believe that the reason we don't have 20 way is because somewhere along the line, time wasn't adequately allocated to get these approved by U.S. Gov. or worse they failed something and that failure wasn't recoverable in the time BMW allotted for the launch. So if this is the case how is it we should react if and when the 2014 M5 comes out with 20 way seats (even worst 2013 models produced later in the cycle)? I can tell you right now it will be a bummer along with a hit on resale value.

[tarmant]

I received my call from Paige at BMW NA today. A customer relations representative who could only tell me that there was an error made in the build your own web site for the M5 and they are sorry for that. I reiterated all the facts as many of you have done thru email and they seem to have not read - in documentation, owners manual, on other models, etc. and all she did was note this in my complaint and tell me she would pass it along. "We have no way of knowing what BMW engineering did...." was the answer to my question as to why this was missing in the USA M5. So it appears this issue is not important enough to BMW to provide us with an honest answer. Very unfortunate, such a great car and such poor customer relations.

[Boca]

Originally Posted by Tourbillon

Count me in. False advertising. I believe someone here saved a picture of the website saying 20 way power seats. Complete BS! Who the hell makes a 560hp car and decides better holding seats aren't necessary, but on less powerful models they are?!!

Just spoke with BMW NA Resolution Specialist. He said that BMW made a mistake with the seats. There is NO option for getting 20 way adjustable seats as we were promises.

He asked me what he could give me to make up for the seat situation. I said I just want the seats I paid for. He said that was impossible. He again asked me what he could give me. I said I didn't know. He told me to call back when I had come to conclusion.

[ucla95]

Originally Posted by Boca

He asked me what he could give me to make up for the seat situation.

Thank you for keeping us posted.

[AGS]

Originally Posted by Boca

He asked me what he could give me to make up for the seat situation. I said I just want the seats I paid for. He said that was impossible. He again asked me what he could give me. I said I didn't know. He told me to call back when I had come to conclusion.

For starts, how about an explanation as to why they are not available on the F10 when they were on the E60?

[Infamous///M5]

This is not turning out to be good at all , if MY 14 doesn't get them then I will look else where. How about ask him/her for the M6 seats ? This is BS BMW !!!

[ibrennan]

Originally Posted by Boca

Just spoke with BMW NA Resolution Specialist. He said that BMW made a mistake with the seats. There is NO option for getting 20 way adjustable seats as we were promises.

He asked me what he could give me to make up for the seat situation. I said I just want the seats I paid for. He said that was impossible. He again asked me what he could give me. I said I didn't know. He told me to call back when I had come to conclusion.

wtf?

[racer10]

They obviously want to deal with this on a case by case basis (easier and less costly due to slippage and frankly no real leverage because owners are cutting their own individual deals. So be it , it's too late to do anything otherwise and very hard to organize something different . )The amount of compensation is a riddle with no correct answer . Part of it has to do with how unhappy you are with the sliding around you will do on that seat on a track and part of it has to do with how much resale value the car will lose because it doesn't have what I believe will be 20 way seats next year or later in this model year.

[RPiM5]

Ladies and Gentleman,

I have some news, well sort of.

I have been given permission to release some unofficial information, but it is pretty accurate. This is coming from my dealer who has close connections with his factory rep and BMW AG in Germany.

BMW's unofficial stance is that the 18-Way seats were always intended for the American Market and that BMW is not going to provide any remedy for this either. They have yet to release an official statement about this, and I was told they were working on one, until the whole oil pump fiasco happened and that took immediate priority. So now it is suspected that they may not release an official statement about this at least until the entire oil pump situation is rectified. They are not giving a reason as to why the 18-way seats were always intended to be for the North American Market including Canada. So it could still be anything. It could still be that they made an honest mistake, or that U.S. and Canadian safety regulations concerning airbag deployment would not allow an adjustable side bolster on the F10 M5 or the F10 5-Series in general. As of right now only BMW may know and is not releasing that information.

Some of you have recieved this same information from the BMW NA Customer Relations Reps that have contacted you and will tell you that this is BMW's official statement regarding the matter, but until we see it in writing, I wouldn't consider that as official. BMW released an official statement about the defective oil pumps (although we will never know if that is 100% accurate) and they should still do the same for the misdirected 20-way seat.

So for now, if you want the 20-Way seat in an F-Series ///M vehicle you will have to buy an F12/F13 ///M6 or maybe wait for the 2014 F80/F82 M3/M4.

The thing that concerns me personally is the speculation of a future M5 model i.e. 2014, 2015, 2016, etc. that will have the 20-ways seats included in them as standard. This may affect resale value if it does happen. Additionally, it is a real bummer to think that not only did my 2006 E60 M5 have adjustable side bolsters, but it had active side bolsters as well. I can expect that a lot of you will be even more enfuriated if a future model does indeed incorporate them, as well you should be, but for right now no one knows if they will, I suspect that not even BMW knows this at this time. Therefore, you shouldn't get all worked up for something that nobody knows yet and that no M5 customer can really control.

My personal opinion about this whole issue is that this is a minor annoyance with the F10 M5 and there is nothing really wrong with the car. It is still an amazing machine, and while I was driving my M5 on the Nurburgring, the lack of side bolster adjustability didn't affect whether my body was sliding around in the seat at all, and I am only 5'7" and about 160 lbs. Therefore, having experienced that, I can say with certainty that adjustable side bolsters aren't 100% necessary, only maybe 10% necessary, as I still would have like to feel a little more secured or locked into my seat by my waist, however I was not flying out of my seat by any means.

In conclusion, take this information with a grain of salt, and know that if we as a community keep pushing BMW for a right and truthful answer, we shall recieve it. For now they are either too busy dealing with bigger problems(which is rightly so), too lazy, too ignorant, or too stubborn to tell us the truth. Or who knows maybe they are already telling us 100% of the truth right now. We'll just have to have more patience and wait and see. Thank you.

-Dave

[RPiM5]

Update:

AGS has spoken with a high level executive manager about the oil pump situation and has reported this about the side bolsters:

-AGS:
"- My primary area of focus was obviously the oil pump recall, but I also took the opportunity to ask about the removal of adjustable side bolsters and auto high beams from the F10 M5. He did not know why these features were removed, but confirmed the adjustable side bolsters are not available on any F10 5 series cars, and the auto high beams are available on all F10 5 series cars except the M5.

- He agreed to talk with me again on Monday or Tuesday next week so I can get an update on the timing of the replacement oil pumps, as well as the rationale behind the deleted features if he is able to learn why they were omitted. I will report any additional information I receive."

So now we have another piece of information, that BMW still may not know why they were removed for the North American market. Perhaps AGS can find out more next week when he reengages the executive from BMW.

[Tourbillon]

Exactly the response I was expecting. I can corner more comfortably in my 2004 S500 which perfectly holds my body in place from adjustable bolsters.

Group buy on M6 seats anyone?

[M54ccibo]

Thanks for the info Dave.