Delivery of first F10 M5 with M Carbon Ceramic Brakes (with full tech training info)

[Neil McRae]

interesting how similair they are.

considering doing a retro on these as I'm sick of the squealing on the compound brakes (anyone got a fix that works 100%)?

Neil.

[maem2501]

BMW Techinfo does not show Carbon ceramic brakes as a retrofit right now, maybe in a couple months

[jphughan]

I have to agree with the naysayers on carbon ceramics here. Most of the Porsche people I've talked to who track their cars ended up switching to steel if their car originally came with carbon for exactly the reasons described above. The only real benefits I can see to carbon ceramic brakes are that they don't produce dust, on the road they can last a very long time, and the weight savings MIGHT deliver slightly better driving feel. But that's a huge price to pay for an aesthetic benefit and POTENTIAL feel improvement, and I don't think the increased service life comes anywhere close to covering the increased cost. And as others have said:

• On the road, they're noisier, have less feel, and require a warm-up compared to steel.
• On the track, if you nick them at all with debris (not at all difficult if you have a small offroad excursion), you'll likely have to replace the entire rotor at enormous cost. This doesn't apply to steel brakes at all. And of course both carbon ceramic and steel rotors can crack under extreme wear, but we all know which one is far more expensive to replace.
• Wheel changes have to be done with great care because of the nicking potential described above.
• A good steel BBK setup with proper fluid can deliver just as much fade resistance as carbon ceramic at a tiny fraction of the cost.

And yes, as others have said, if you're buying carbon ceramic on an M5 for tracking purposes, I question your track vehicle choice. I don't disagree that the M5 can handle track duty and arguably SHOULD be tracked on occasion because M5 owners will never be able to experience the M5's full potential on the road, but if you're a sufficiently hardcore track junkie to be considering carbon ceramic, you should be driving a different car there.

Really don't see the point of carbon ceramic.

[neria]

Those are beautiful, congrats.

[Darude]

I've just finished a 2 day 1200 mile road trip with the new beast. We took in South England, Wales, the Lake District and Scotland, whilst driving the car on some of the best driving roads in Britain.

I will follow this post which includes pictures with a full and detailed review, but I am sure you would like to know how the CCB performed? I was told that they required 600 miles to bed in and give proper braking performance. I was driving in temps from +7 to -4 on all roads types and surfaces and the brakes performed faultlessly, the modulation and feel was fantastic, the stopping power phenomenal. Brake squeal? I only heard this when driving slowly (stopping in traffic under 10mph) with the windows down or sunroof open, never with the windows closed, it didn't matter if the brakes were cold, wet, frozen or even after a solid 11 hours driving they were immense. Now, I cant compare the CCB's to the standard steel rotors as I haven't driven these with anger over 1200 miles.

The car goes in for its 1200 mile run in service on Wednesday before being driven to France & Switzerland.

I will write more including a review of my thoughts on all aspects of the cars performance and functions over the next few days.

I would like to say thanks to IND for shipping the all important black gloss kit to the UK.

[RPiM5]

Nice pictures of the new Beast! Also sick shots of the CCB's, but they put the steering wheel on the wrong side! Doh!

[Darude]

Some more pictures.

[mcvaughan]

Great shots! Congrats on your new beauty!

[dan99]

that is just beautiful!

[Spoolin Montego]

Cool untill you take in for a brake job and they want 10k lol

[24601]

perfection.

[MSPORTWORLD]

Originally Posted by jphughan

I have to agree with the naysayers on carbon ceramics here. Most of the Porsche people I've talked to who track their cars ended up switching to steel if their car originally came with carbon for exactly the reasons described above. The only real benefits I can see to carbon ceramic brakes are that they don't produce dust, on the road they can last a very long time, and the weight savings MIGHT deliver slightly better driving feel. But that's a huge price to pay for an aesthetic benefit and POTENTIAL feel improvement, and I don't think the increased service life comes anywhere close to covering the increased cost. And as others have said:

• On the road, they're noisier, have less feel, and require a warm-up compared to steel.
• On the track, if you nick them at all with debris (not at all difficult if you have a small offroad excursion), you'll likely have to replace the entire rotor at enormous cost. This doesn't apply to steel brakes at all. And of course both carbon ceramic and steel rotors can crack under extreme wear, but we all know which one is far more expensive to replace.
• Wheel changes have to be done with great care because of the nicking potential described above.
• A good steel BBK setup with proper fluid can deliver just as much fade resistance as carbon ceramic at a tiny fraction of the cost.

And yes, as others have said, if you're buying carbon ceramic on an M5 for tracking purposes, I question your track vehicle choice. I don't disagree that the M5 can handle track duty and arguably SHOULD be tracked on occasion because M5 owners will never be able to experience the M5's full potential on the road, but if you're a sufficiently hardcore track junkie to be considering carbon ceramic, you should be driving a different car there.

Really don't see the point of carbon ceramic.

Concur with this assessment as well

[M54ccibo]

Very nice! Congrats! The best color combo!

[King_Hendrik_CDN]

Where did you get the black side air fenders ??? Thanks

[hellrotm]

So will these covered under the free maintenance? I know this has been asked before, but yet to see a concrete answer.

[jphughan]

Originally Posted by BlackJetE90

So will these covered under the free maintenance? I know this has been asked before, but yet to see a concrete answer.

No. That was mentioned in the mouseover popup in the configurator when carbon ceramics were originally on the options list. Probably a combination of it not being cost-effective to cover free replacements of such expensive braking components without driving up the cost of that option even more and the fact that unless you're tracking the car (which isn't covered by Ultimate Service either if it dramatically increases wear rates), carbon ceramics should last you at least 50K miles anyway.

[Russkey]

Great car! My fav combo! Enjoy it!

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by jphughan

I have to agree with the naysayers on carbon ceramics here. Most of the Porsche people I've talked to who track their cars ended up switching to steel if their car originally came with carbon for exactly the reasons described above. The only real benefits I can see to carbon ceramic brakes are that they don't produce dust, on the road they can last a very long time, and the weight savings MIGHT deliver slightly better driving feel. But that's a huge price to pay for an aesthetic benefit and POTENTIAL feel improvement, and I don't think the increased service life comes anywhere close to covering the increased cost. And as others have said:

• On the road, they're noisier, have less feel, and require a warm-up compared to steel.
• On the track, if you nick them at all with debris (not at all difficult if you have a small offroad excursion), you'll likely have to replace the entire rotor at enormous cost. This doesn't apply to steel brakes at all. And of course both carbon ceramic and steel rotors can crack under extreme wear, but we all know which one is far more expensive to replace.
• Wheel changes have to be done with great care because of the nicking potential described above.
• A good steel BBK setup with proper fluid can deliver just as much fade resistance as carbon ceramic at a tiny fraction of the cost.

And yes, as others have said, if you're buying carbon ceramic on an M5 for tracking purposes, I question your track vehicle choice. I don't disagree that the M5 can handle track duty and arguably SHOULD be tracked on occasion because M5 owners will never be able to experience the M5's full potential on the road, but if you're a sufficiently hardcore track junkie to be considering carbon ceramic, you should be driving a different car there.

Really don't see the point of carbon ceramic.

Great post. I see their application for race cars, that get the brakes inspected/replaced after each race or even each session. Carbon ceramics do deal with heat a lot better.

But for the street and occasional track days, it is not needed nor a good idea in my opinion. For all the reasons listed above.

They are for all the "piston counters" out there.

[M3takesNYC]

It is a huge misconception that ceramic brakes perform "better" in terms of stopping distance etc. There is no difference as stopping distance is determined from the mass of the car and its momentum providing the brakes are adequate enough to lock the wheels (then ABS kicks in). The benefit as stated is they do not over heat.

So the reason a porsche does not need ceramics is because it is quite light for one and therefore braking on the tradck puts much less heat and stress into the brakes than a 4500 pound car.

If you are someone that is going to do any track time I think this is a great deal. Avoids you from having to spend money on an aftermarket BBK and will perform better. Also never having to replace rotors is a big perk.

The m5 is the perfect car for ceramic brakes because it is so big that any steel brakes undergo such stress and heat from bringing that mass to a stop that you are really limited with any steel setup if you want to do track. Ceramics are the perfect scenario here for this

[h4nh]

Wow. nice pics! I like the gold calipers instead of the blue ones.

[Powerbeast]

Wow...Amazing!!!!

[M3takesNYC]

Originally Posted by jphughan

No. That was mentioned in the mouseover popup in the configurator when carbon ceramics were originally on the options list. Probably a combination of it not being cost-effective to cover free replacements of such expensive braking components without driving up the cost of that option even more and the fact that unless you're tracking the car (which isn't covered by Ultimate Service either if it dramatically increases wear rates), carbon ceramics should last you at least 50K miles anyway.

Regular steel discs last 50k easy. Ceramics essentially never wear down. well over 100k miles and much more. There is no degradation of the ceramic material (hence no dust) and therefore it never wears. Only if it cracks or is damaged in another way but not from braking and driving-racing or not.

So no need for inclusion in maintence program as it will outlast 50k by light years anyway