Dinan Stage 2 to BPM Sport

[bmwdinan5]

Hi everyone,

Last year my '14 M5 CP sat with the dealership for ~3 months while they troubleshoot a Christmas tree of issues. The problem ended up being a known issue with the Dinan Piggyback systems. Dinan has offered to refund me the cost of the unit, which now has me looking at alternatives. From what I heard BPM has one of the best flash tunes out there for our cars.

The Dinan Stage 2 upgrade was rated at ~704HP. If I'm going to make the switch, I'd prefer not to go backwards in performance. I'd like to keep my clutches so I was thinking about sticking around what the Dinan Piggyback put out.

A couple of questions.

1.) Are there better alternatives to the BPM tune (I know it's subjective)
2.) Is there a recommended HP/TQ setting I should provide them (I don't have DP's or Intake)
3.) Those who purchased the BPM solution did you also purchase the flash cable? (I already have a cable for using BMW diag software)
4.) I was only going to remove the speed governor and leave the cold start & rev limiters where they are.

Look forward to your insight.

[TrevorM3]

1. most flash tunes are the same, customer service sets them apart. DME/BPM seem to be the most popular.

2. id stick 640/640 hp/tq range, every car is different, with one common denominator, 650tq+ wont hold for long.

3. Dinan is trash.

[TrevorM3]

1. most flash tunes are the same, customer service sets them apart. DME/BPM seem to be the most popular.

2. id stick 640/640 hp/tq range, every car is different, with one common denominator, 650tq+ wont hold for long.

3. Dinan is trash.

[bmwdinan5]

Thanks for the reply. The difference between 640 and 650 doesn’t seem like much. Is that really a big enough difference when it comes to the clutches?

Also is that 640 is crank, right? If the Dinan unit delivers 704, aren’t I taking a step down?

Lastly why do you feel Dinan is junk. Just wondering.
Thanks again Trevor

[ykjones]

Sorry to hear of your Dinan issues. I'm enjoying the Dinan Stage 2 (non CP) immensely as I had it recently installed. I also enjoy having the piece of mind with warranty coverage that I could drive right back to the BMW dealership where I had it installed (and houses my extended warranty) for any issues and be covered. The technician that installed it is regarded as their best technician and is also extremely well versed and experienced with Dinan and their products. I've read for years that there are faster rated/more popular tunes out there for the F10 M5. I have zero concern of being the fastest (there will always be someone faster) as I don't race, don't drag strip or anything like that (2 car seats in the back of my beast). I've researched for over a year and previously owned a fully modded E60 M5 for 6 years. I wanted a more exhilarating driving experience with the piece of mind of having warranty coverage should anything go wrong. The increase in power is substantial, can most definitely be felt and is more power than I could ever need. With the Dinan app on my iPhone, I can also switch it to base or Stage 1 if the wife opts to drive it. With the I also enjoy how smooth and linear the power band is as well. So far, zero issues and I couldn't be more pleased with my Dinan Stage 2 tune. I'm knocking on wood that things continue to go well. I'm not concerned in the least that it's not the tune that will yield the most gains.

[bmwdinan5]

Hi YKJones

Keep in mind the Dinan warranty limited to your in service factory 4 year, 50k mile warranty. It does not continue if you purchase a BMW extended warranty, CPO or a 3rd party warranty. With having a '13 odds are you've lapsed the 4 year 50k factory warranty and any issues related to the Dinan tune would not be covered by Dinan and will be your responsibility. I've had Dinan tunes on 2x e39 540's, 1x e60 550i, 1x e70 X5 (N55). Hands down I can tell the difference between Dinan's flash tunes and their piggyback, the flashes were far more superior. If you recall, Steve Dinan called Piggyback tunes for posers

Dinan advertises their tune is superior because all communication between the vehicle and the ECU's flow through their harness, it actually reeks havoc. The electronic tollerances in our vehicles have little room for deviation. As signals flow through the multiple connection points and additional wire length resistance is introduced. This creates an unstable situation that can easily be affected by cold. My M5 is one of those vehicles which once the temperature drops below 50 i get a Christmas tree of lights until the Dinan Harness warms up. This is not limited to the M5's, but many other models.

I really, really, really wish there was a workaround, but unfortunately not. No doubt Dinan stands behind their product and offered to refund my purchase at anytime.

[ykjones]

Originally Posted by bmwdinan5

Hi YKJones

Keep in mind the Dinan warranty limited to your in service factory 4 year, 50k mile warranty. It does not continue if you purchase a BMW extended warranty, CPO or a 3rd party warranty. With having a '13 odds are you've lapsed the 4 year 50k factory warranty and any issues related to the Dinan tune would not be covered by Dinan and will be your responsibility. I've had Dinan tunes on 2x e39 540's, 1x e60 550i, 1x e70 X5 (N55). Hands down I can tell the difference between Dinan's flash tunes and their piggyback, the flashes were far more superior. If you recall, Steve Dinan called Piggyback tunes for posers

Dinan advertises their tune is superior because all communication between the vehicle and the ECU's flow through their harness, it actually reeks havoc. The electronic tollerances in our vehicles have little room for deviation. As signals flow through the multiple connection points and additional wire length resistance is introduced. This creates an unstable situation that can easily be affected by cold. My M5 is one of those vehicles which once the temperature drops below 50 i get a Christmas tree of lights until the Dinan Harness warms up. This is not limited to the M5's, but many other models.

I really, really, really wish there was a workaround, but unfortunately not. No doubt Dinan stands behind their product and offered to refund my purchase at anytime.

Hey man, yeah my factory warranty ended in May but the Dinan warranty offers 2 years unlimited mileage warranty on Dinantronics purchases for vehicles outside of the new car 4 year/50k mileage. Right from their warranty tab on their website under the F10 M5 Dinan Stage 1 and 2 tunes..

"CARS NO LONGER COVERED BY THE ORIGINAL VEHICLE MANUFACTURER’S NEW CAR LIMITED WARRANTY
Dinan Performance Products are warranted for a 2-year, unlimited mileage period from the date of original purchase. Dinan’s warranties are transferable when ownership of the vehicle into which the Dinan products were originally installed is sold."

Perhaps it exists out there, but I haven't found any other piggyback/tune that offers any kind of warranty in black and white on their websites. I've heard some great reports of stellar customer service with some of the other options out there as well. It has been widely reported that this past spring or sooner, BMW NA has new software that can immediately detect any flash tune and automatically makes a "log" of it when you go in for service. You might in for service for a recall or something and not even have any issues with your car. "Should" something go wrong down the road with something perhaps engine related, word is they will already have your "flagged" ECU tune from a previous visit already on record in their system. Chances of any warranty claim at that point for any issue will likely be zero. Just not a chance I was willing to take at this point and time.

Sorry to hear about the Christmas lights in the colder weather until the Dinantronics warmed up. I would be very concerned too if that issue came up. I will certainly be watchful and thanks for the heads up as I have made a note to watch for it.

I'm sure there are many great tunes and success stories that many on the forum are very happy with. I just wanted to throw my two cents in on the Dinan Stage 2 tune since I saw it referenced in the subject line. I'm sure there are plenty of faster M5's out there than mine. It was my goal to have a more exhilarating driving experience while having the peace of mind of a warranty coverage and still butter smooth in everyday driveability in driving our two little ones around every day. For me, that has been achieved and far surpassed with the Dinan Stage 2 (non CP) tune. I truly feel I have a new car now and smile way more now every day than I already did prior to the tune. If I wanted to be one of the fastest (except for Ram with his 1000+hp F10 M5 and he's adding even more power!! , there are certainly other routes I would have taken.

Have you checked out Evolve tune for the F10 M5? There was a time that tune was highly on my radar for my E60 M5 and F10 M5.

Maybe these two vids have been posted before. If so, sorry for the repost. I found them quite informative and think they are both worth a watch.

Hope you find a tune that works great for you. Keep us posted and best of luck to you.

[Earthmaster]

Originally Posted by bmwdinan5

Thanks for the reply. The difference between 640 and 650 doesn’t seem like much. Is that really a big enough difference when it comes to the clutches?

Also is that 640 is crank, right? If the Dinan unit delivers 704, aren’t I taking a step down?

Lastly why do you feel Dinan is junk. Just wondering.
Thanks again Trevor

So the 640 is whp. Which is close to 750 bhp. Dinan "700hp" is probably closer to 580-590whp. Now you see the difference? I dynoed 620whp with mpe, BMs intake, 94 pump gas and a tune. Bm3 and supporting items cost less then a grand. Why pay 5 or 6? They purposely tune it conservatively so they minimize risk of warranty claims anyways

[apexlocator]

Mission Performance stage 1

Although most stage 1 tunes are very similar in power output: ~630whp/600wtq I'm guessing. Find someone who knows how to tweak/modify the actual tune files, not just flash someone else's tune.

[kevn23]

Originally Posted by bmwdinan5

Hi everyone,

Last year my '14 M5 CP sat with the dealership for ~3 months while they troubleshoot a Christmas tree of issues. The problem ended up being a known issue with the Dinan Piggyback systems. Dinan has offered to refund me the cost of the unit, which now has me looking at alternatives. From what I heard BPM has one of the best flash tunes out there for our cars.

The Dinan Stage 2 upgrade was rated at ~704HP. If I'm going to make the switch, I'd prefer not to go backwards in performance. I'd like to keep my clutches so I was thinking about sticking around what the Dinan Piggyback put out.

A couple of questions.

1.) Are there better alternatives to the BPM tune (I know it's subjective)
2.) Is there a recommended HP/TQ setting I should provide them (I don't have DP's or Intake)
3.) Those who purchased the BPM solution did you also purchase the flash cable? (I already have a cable for using BMW diag software)
4.) I was only going to remove the speed governor and leave the cold start & rev limiters where they are.

Look forward to your insight.

I don't have Dinan so I don't have a direct comparison, but I have BPM stage I on a otherwise stock car so I'll comment on the 4 questions.

1.) It depends on an individual's definition of "better". Is it more power?
(Less risk in) Reliability? Data logging? Price? Communication? There are always trade offs of some sort. You can ask each company/tuner what they offer and just get a feel of the communication if nothing more. With that said, all stage I and II (with DPs) are pretty standard tunes unless you specifically ask for something different. If your mods are aftermarket turbos, meth, built engine, then it's a different story.

2.) I believe most flash tunes on a stock car target TQ in the low 600 range. OEM clutch is the weakest link at this power level. Mine did not last very long and I have SSP clutches now, but others have had better mileages.

3.) I did not purchase the BPM cable at the time of my tune a little over a year ago. Mike said the cable is proprietary. It's something I am thinking of getting, but the price rivals those Monster(TM) cables!

4.) You can choose whatever options you want or don't want. I left everything as is even the speed governor.

[bmwdinan5]

Thanks for the insight. You mentioned burning up you SSP clutches. What was your tune configuration from a HP/TQ perspective? What do you recommend as a conservative but ?heathy? tune?

[kevn23]

Originally Posted by bmwdinan5

Thanks for the insight. You mentioned burning up you SSP clutches. What was your tune configuration from a HP/TQ perspective? What do you recommend as a conservative but ?heathy? tune?

I guess this question is directed to me? My OEM clutches did not last very long and I have SSP clutches now. Extra info, my car had ~15k miles at the time of the tune.

[bmwdinan5]

kevn23, do you recall roughly the HP/TQ settings of the first tune?

[kevn23]

Originally Posted by bmwdinan5

kevn23, do you recall roughly the HP/TQ settings of the first tune?

I just got the BPM stage I tune. Have a look here to see what they advertise.

http://www.bpmsport.com/services/tuning/s63-tune.html

Or just ask Mike, he's very approachable.

[TrevorM3]

Originally Posted by bmwdinan5

Thanks for the reply. The difference between 640 and 650 doesn’t seem like much. Is that really a big enough difference when it comes to the clutches?

Also is that 640 is crank, right? If the Dinan unit delivers 704, aren’t I taking a step down?

Lastly why do you feel Dinan is junk. Just wondering.
Thanks again Trevor

when i say 640, i'm talking wheel horsepower. dinan doesn't put down 704, i can guarantee you that. I haven't seen one person to date state their power from a dinan piggyback. (And that is to answer your last question)

There are better, and cheaper piggyback options other than Dinan, as well as jb4.

[Vic55]

Originally Posted by TrevorM3

when i say 640, i'm talking wheel horsepower. dinan doesn't put down 704, i can guarantee you that. I haven't seen one person to date state their power from a dinan piggyback. (And that is to answer your last question)

There are better, and cheaper piggyback options other than Dinan, as well as jb4.

yeah doesnt Dinan always report their hp gains as bhp like Renntech does for benz?

[TrevorM3]

Originally Posted by Vic55

yeah doesnt Dinan always report their hp gains as bhp like Renntech does for benz?

honestly not sure, i've never once looked into any dinan performance item.

[TheHouseWon]

I have bootmod3 and it is as customizable as you'd like it to be. I would only consider bootmod3, HCP, DME, BPM, and Mission.

[ykjones]

I would thoroughly research all the tunes available for the F10 M5 and reach out to members and what their experiences have been with them. Everyone is quick to post dyno's, road "kills", time slips etc but unfortunately, not everyone reports when things go south. I would also reach out to each supplier of the various tunes/piggybacks how they would assist you should things go wrong and see that in writing.

There is a guy on YouTube from Canada with a Dinan Stage 2 F10 M5. He has some hilarious videos of the reactions with the car from passengers and also has videos of him driving around in the snow. Maybe you can reach out to him to see if he's had any issues with the colder weather in regards to the harness.

I'm extremely pleased and impressed with the Dinan tune. There is a significant difference in power as has been reported by several others in various posts. For those wrapped around dyno numbers, all info is posted right on their website under specs with gains at each RPM, and several others have reported their results and dyno's as well on here and the M5board under the F10 section. I even did a back to back comparison with a local F10 M5 with Dinan Stage 1 and when I was stock. We switched cars and I was like "WOW" when I drove his. Got back into my stock car within 5 seconds of us switching back cars, my car clearly didn't have that "extra" exhilaration his did. I can flash back to stock in seconds via the Dinan phone app for the wife and it's hilarious to see the difference in power from stock to Stage 1, 2, etc.

For me, the major factors that convinced me was the peace of mind of the warranty that Dinan offers (since 97) whether or not you are still within the original BMW factory warranty or not. Also their R/D and their background in racing heritage. I found the Dinantronics videos posted above extremely valuable and it's nice to know why things were developed the way they were with the piggyback. All that stuff is way over my head. Are there tunes/piggybacks that yield more hp and tq on a dyno or have faster time slips? I'm sure of it. I'll take the peace of mind any day that I can drive to any one of countless BMW Dealerships and Indy's all over the country that are Dinan certified which will honor what's in black and white with the warranty if something were to go wrong vs X tune produces X more hp and tq. There must be a reason that BMW is partnered with Dinan at numerous dealerships all over the country. It is well advertised the cost of the Dinan tune (through a great friend and serious hook up), I paid no where close to that for a brand new unit and installed at a BMW dealership. I could have certainly have purchased any other tune out there for less with the "higher" dyno's, faster time slips, etc, etc, YouTube, Facebook videos, etc. For me, I wanted a more exhilirating driving experience without going too crazy (I don't race) and the piece of mind of having some type of warranty. Perhaps other piggybacks/tunes offer the same. Please share for all if they do. Perhaps down the road, I'll try another tune/piggyback.

To each their own. It seems that all tunes/piggybacks produce some nice power gains over stock and make it even more fun to drive. As stated earlier by someone, "best" tune is subjective in several areas. I would just look at the whole picture vs how much "power" one tune/piggyback has over another. Someone listed earlier some tunes/piggybacks I've never even heard of. On another forum there are even more. Wow, how many different tuning/piggyback options are there out there for our platform car? How are they? What do they cover? May there is already a sub thread on this. I hope they are great.

[Spinny02]

I have a badged Signature 1 Dinan with stage 2 Comp pkg.... had so many issue I pulled the piggy back out of the car. Dinan was very nice and always helped with sending new tunes and files. I shipped my car from Houston to Cali so they could set it up and work out the problems, steve drove it and worked with the team to get the CP tune dialed in. My D-Tronics box has 8 tunes (vs the normal 3) that I can switch from but they still could not get it to be DTM free. After two years of troubleshooting and replacements I gave up. The car drives like a champ without it. I do miss the power but not the hassle. 4 years and 36k miles and now my clutch is starting to slip.

Good luck.

Originally Posted by ykjones

I would thoroughly research all the tunes available for the F10 M5 and reach out to members and what their experiences have been with them. Everyone is quick to post dyno's, road "kills", time slips etc but unfortunately, not everyone reports when things go south. I would also reach out to each supplier of the various tunes/piggybacks how they would assist you should things go wrong and see that in writing.

There is a guy on YouTube from Canada with a Dinan Stage 2 F10 M5. He has some hilarious videos of the reactions with the car from passengers and also has videos of him driving around in the snow. Maybe you can reach out to him to see if he's had any issues with the colder weather in regards to the harness.

I'm extremely pleased and impressed with the Dinan tune. There is a significant difference in power as has been reported by several others in various posts. For those wrapped around dyno numbers, all info is posted right on their website under specs with gains at each RPM, and several others have reported their results and dyno's as well on here and the M5board under the F10 section. I even did a back to back comparison with a local F10 M5 with Dinan Stage 1 and when I was stock. We switched cars and I was like "WOW" when I drove his. Got back into my stock car within 5 seconds of us switching back cars, my car clearly didn't have that "extra" exhilaration his did. I can flash back to stock in seconds via the Dinan phone app for the wife and it's hilarious to see the difference in power from stock to Stage 1, 2, etc.

For me, the major factors that convinced me was the peace of mind of the warranty that Dinan offers (since 97) whether or not you are still within the original BMW factory warranty or not. Also their R/D and their background in racing heritage. I found the Dinantronics videos posted above extremely valuable and it's nice to know why things were developed the way they were with the piggyback. All that stuff is way over my head. Are there tunes/piggybacks that yield more hp and tq on a dyno or have faster time slips? I'm sure of it. I'll take the peace of mind any day that I can drive to any one of countless BMW Dealerships and Indy's all over the country that are Dinan certified which will honor what's in black and white with the warranty if something were to go wrong vs X tune produces X more hp and tq. There must be a reason that BMW is partnered with Dinan at numerous dealerships all over the country. It is well advertised the cost of the Dinan tune (through a great friend and serious hook up), I paid no where close to that for a brand new unit and installed at a BMW dealership. I could have certainly have purchased any other tune out there for less with the "higher" dyno's, faster time slips, etc, etc, YouTube, Facebook videos, etc. For me, I wanted a more exhilirating driving experience without going too crazy (I don't race) and the piece of mind of having some type of warranty. Perhaps other piggybacks/tunes offer the same. Please share for all if they do. Perhaps down the road, I'll try another tune/piggyback.

To each their own. It seems that all tunes/piggybacks produce some nice power gains over stock and make it even more fun to drive. As stated earlier by someone, "best" tune is subjective in several areas. I would just look at the whole picture vs how much "power" one tune/piggyback has over another. Someone listed earlier some tunes/piggybacks I've never even heard of. On another forum there are even more. Wow, how many different tuning/piggyback options are there out there for our platform car? How are they? What do they cover? May there is already a sub thread on this. I hope they are great.

[TrevorM3]

interested in trying another piggy back? ^

(not jb4)

[JetBee]

Originally Posted by TrevorM3

interested in trying another piggy back? ^

(not jb4)

why not jb4?