so M3/4 faster than M5/6?

[stealth.pilot]

Originally Posted by catpat8000

If your biggest priority in a car is what other people think of it, I can see why this would matter a lot.

Not my biggest priority. But it's not irrelevant. As a 1 percenter I am pretty low key compared with my peer group. But I would not feel right driving a 3 series. I spent my 20s driving 3 series cars. Those days are over.

That said, why get an M3 when I can have an M5. Yes it's $40k more expensive, but it's worth it.

[Tonymiabmw]

IDK after going from e60 M5 to M3 e90 it was like driving a sports car again not like a big car with larger motor. I don't care what anyone says the M3/M4 will always drive better than the M5 they always do. Im torn now too, but I want more space for the kids. The back of a M3 is very small. Ill still get a m5 figure 3 years until next M5 so its still relevant.

[Stash21]

No doubt the m3/4 are great cars. But I won't be swapping from the m5. Next gen m5 will be my next car more power,less weight, AWD.

[E90076]

I'd be willing to bet that a M5 still takes the M3/4 from a mid-speed roll on up.

[Mikeisen]

I would cancel your M5 order if I was you. I love my M5 and never have a second thought about buying it, or think about any other car. If you're not as passionate about your M5 order and are second guessing yourself, I would cancel now. JMO

[Tom C]

The M4 might be quicker to 60mph, but I doubt it would be faster above that speed. I guess it comes down to if you wanted more of a sports car or luxury car. I wanted a sedan with luxury amenities and power so I traded my GT-R for the F10 M5. I probably would have kept my GT-R if I wanted more of a sports car. If I wanted a sports car with more luxury features...it probably would have been a Porsche 997TT. To me the M3/4 isn't as desirable although it looks great and I am sure it is a great overall car...just not for me at this stage in my life.

[ColdList]

Originally Posted by RPiM5

They've claimed 4.1 0-60 for the M4 with the DCT.

I have no doubt in my mind that with the same driver or equally skilled drivers that the M5/M6 will be faster than the M3/M4 in a drag race from a dig and from a roll. You gotta remember that the M3/M4 will still have as much trouble with traction with 405 lbs/ft of torque and RWD. In a dig race, once the M5/M6 get traction it's game over for the M3/M4. In a rolling race, it won't even be fair . The M5/M6 will be up almost 200hp on the M3/M4.

On the track, like someone already said, it will be a no brainer. The M3/M4 will be the faster car not even a doubt in my mind. That 1,000lbs weight difference will feel SO good on the track.

Dave did you bring some of that Cali weed to the East Coast?-lol! Kidding brother!

I don't think the M5 will have any chance against the M3/4. The power to weight ratio will eat the M5 alive. People quoting the 3.5-3.7 are in PERFECT conditions. VERY VERY VERY hard to get that launch perfect in the real world. BMW has not dialed it in on the M5. I could never get VBox under 4.0 Yes, I had DP and a tune and my tires liked to spin but even without it was very tough. With 425 hp/406 tq and weight at 3,300 lbs. the M4 is going to be tough to beat. Before I bought my 991 we took a C4S out raced the M6. With only 400 hp/325 tq. at 3150 lbs. the Porsche beats the M6 from a stop and slow rolls (traction is big here). From highway speed rolls the M6 jumps about 1.5 lengths right away but the Porsche hangs tight. I think the M4 is going to not have the same result. The M3/4 is being made for performance.Like it or not, BMW has made it pretty clear with their latest offerings that they are going mre towards luxury refinement than performance focus. Sure, they are giving you big hp/tq. but no one truly interested in putting out a perf. car would increase the weight and size to the lengths that BMW has. They are brilliant car builders. This is no miscalculation. On the M3/4 they have gone with lighter weight materials in an effort to keep weight down and have increased the power per ton ratio. This is BMWs "sports" car-their signature for performance. Crazy that they are making it faster/as fast as the M5/6.

Ultimately though-I would NEVER take an M3/4 over an M5/6. I don't care how fast they are. The M5/6 is a TOTALLY different class of car. It is the pinnacle of BMW. They would have to REALLY step up the M3/4 interior appointments to make it attractive enough to change the perception. Even then, I don't think it ever takes the place. Two different cars. Two different target markets. I have always perceived the M3 to be a car for "younger" (no offense to anyone) drivers and people who would eventually trade "up" to an M5/6-excluding track drivers.

[Tom C]

Originally Posted by ColdList

Dave did you bring some of that Cali weed to the East Coast?-lol! Kidding brother!

I don't think the M5 will have any chance against the M3/4. The power to weight ratio will eat the M5 alive. People quoting the 3.5-3.7 are in PERFECT conditions. VERY VERY VERY hard to get that launch perfect in the real world. BMW has not dialed it in on the M5. I could never get VBox under 4.0 Yes, I had DP and a tune and my tires liked to spin but even without it was very tough. With 425 hp/406 tq and weight at 3,300 lbs. the M4 is going to be tough to beat. Before I bought my 991 we took a C4S out raced the M6. With only 400 hp/325 tq. at 3150 lbs. the Porsche beats the M6 from a stop and slow rolls (traction is big here). From highway speed rolls the M6 jumps about 1.5 lengths right away but the Porsche hangs tight. I think the M4 is going to not have the same result. The M3/4 is being made for performance.Like it or not, BMW has made it pretty clear with their latest offerings that they are going mre towards luxury refinement than performance focus. Sure, they are giving you big hp/tq. but no one truly interested in putting out a perf. car would increase the weight and size to the lengths that BMW has. They are brilliant car builders. This is no miscalculation. On the M3/4 they have gone with lighter weight materials in an effort to keep weight down and have increased the power per ton ratio. This is BMWs "sports" car-their signature for performance. Crazy that they are making it faster/as fast as the M5/6.

Ultimately though-I would NEVER take an M3/4 over an M5/6. I don't care how fast they are. The M5/6 is a TOTALLY different class of car. It is the pinnacle of BMW. They would have to REALLY step up the M3/4 interior appointments to make it attractive enough to change the perception. Even then, I don't think it ever takes the place. Two different cars. Two different target markets. I have always perceived the M3 to be a car for "younger" (no offense to anyone) drivers and people who would eventually trade "up" to an M5/6-excluding track drivers.

I wouldn't call my 3.67s vbox 0-60mph run "perfect" conditions. It was somewhere around 45 degrees, early in the morning (before sunrise) when the regular road surface (not prepped) was not warm at all. And I didn't even bother with launch control. In fact for 0-60mph runs, it would have been much more benefical to do on a warmer (mid 60s), sunny day to provide better condtions for off the line traction (the most important part of a 0-60mph run).

[stealth.pilot]

Originally Posted by ColdList

Dave did you bring some of that Cali weed to the East Coast?-lol! Kidding brother!

I don't think the M5 will have any chance against the M3/4. The power to weight ratio will eat the M5 alive. People quoting the 3.5-3.7 are in PERFECT conditions. VERY VERY VERY hard to get that launch perfect in the real world. BMW has not dialed it in on the M5. I could never get VBox under 4.0 Yes, I had DP and a tune and my tires liked to spin but even without it was very tough. With 425 hp/406 tq and weight at 3,300 lbs. the M4 is going to be tough to beat. Before I bought my 991 we took a C4S out raced the M6. With only 400 hp/325 tq. at 3150 lbs. the Porsche beats the M6 from a stop and slow rolls (traction is big here). From highway speed rolls the M6 jumps about 1.5 lengths right away but the Porsche hangs tight. I think the M4 is going to not have the same result. The M3/4 is being made for performance.Like it or not, BMW has made it pretty clear with their latest offerings that they are going mre towards luxury refinement than performance focus. Sure, they are giving you big hp/tq. but no one truly interested in putting out a perf. car would increase the weight and size to the lengths that BMW has. They are brilliant car builders. This is no miscalculation. On the M3/4 they have gone with lighter weight materials in an effort to keep weight down and have increased the power per ton ratio. This is BMWs "sports" car-their signature for performance. Crazy that they are making it faster/as fast as the M5/6.

Ultimately though-I would NEVER take an M3/4 over an M5/6. I don't care how fast they are. The M5/6 is a TOTALLY different class of car. It is the pinnacle of BMW. They would have to REALLY step up the M3/4 interior appointments to make it attractive enough to change the perception. Even then, I don't think it ever takes the place. Two different cars. Two different target markets. I have always perceived the M3 to be a car for "younger" (no offense to anyone) drivers and people who would eventually trade "up" to an M5/6-excluding track drivers.

I wouldn't take an M4 over an M5, but I might take an M4 instead of a 911 because of the performance, higher ride height (this is a big deal to me, I hate low seating positions) and an interior that is now approaching Porsche levels (not as good as 991 but much better than 997.2). They have really dialed up the luxury in the M4 versus the standard 3 and 4 models - full merino leather, extensive deviated double stitching, the seat design. That cabin is really quite special - the contrast stitching in particular is an improvement over the M5.

[RPiM5]

Originally Posted by ColdList

Dave did you bring some of that Cali weed to the East Coast?-lol! Kidding brother!

I don't think the M5 will have any chance against the M3/4. The power to weight ratio will eat the M5 alive. People quoting the 3.5-3.7 are in PERFECT conditions. VERY VERY VERY hard to get that launch perfect in the real world. BMW has not dialed it in on the M5. I could never get VBox under 4.0 Yes, I had DP and a tune and my tires liked to spin but even without it was very tough. With 425 hp/406 tq and weight at 3,300 lbs. the M4 is going to be tough to beat. Before I bought my 991 we took a C4S out raced the M6. With only 400 hp/325 tq. at 3150 lbs. the Porsche beats the M6 from a stop and slow rolls (traction is big here). From highway speed rolls the M6 jumps about 1.5 lengths right away but the Porsche hangs tight. I think the M4 is going to not have the same result. The M3/4 is being made for performance.Like it or not, BMW has made it pretty clear with their latest offerings that they are going mre towards luxury refinement than performance focus. Sure, they are giving you big hp/tq. but no one truly interested in putting out a perf. car would increase the weight and size to the lengths that BMW has. They are brilliant car builders. This is no miscalculation. On the M3/4 they have gone with lighter weight materials in an effort to keep weight down and have increased the power per ton ratio. This is BMWs "sports" car-their signature for performance. Crazy that they are making it faster/as fast as the M5/6.

Ultimately though-I would NEVER take an M3/4 over an M5/6. I don't care how fast they are. The M5/6 is a TOTALLY different class of car. It is the pinnacle of BMW. They would have to REALLY step up the M3/4 interior appointments to make it attractive enough to change the perception. Even then, I don't think it ever takes the place. Two different cars. Two different target markets. I have always perceived the M3 to be a car for "younger" (no offense to anyone) drivers and people who would eventually trade "up" to an M5/6-excluding track drivers.

I hear ya brotha, and I agree on some points. I just saw another posting that the M3?m4 will be able to reach 0-60 in 3.9s with the DCT. Pretty impressive. I think that will be under perfect conditions as well, like you said.

Here's some facts though, I've raced buddies of mine back in Cali who owned tuned 135i's and tuned 1///M's. I raced both cars from a dig and from a rolling start with my F10 M5. Not only did my M5 sound way cooler , but I beat both in all racing regimes. My buddy with a tuned 135i claimed weight under 3,200lbs, about 450hp and around 380tq. My buddy with a tuned 1///M claimed weight under 3,200lbs and about 470hp and over 400tq. The rolling races weren't even fair, but the digs were interesting. They both got good launches from their 6spd manuals but once I hooked up the rear tires it wasn't even a race anymore. Granted the F80 M3 and F82 M4 will have the same exact DCT's as in the M5/M6 and will also have the same exact Active ///M Differential as in the M5/M6, so the results will be different I'm sure, but I'm still putting my money on the M5/M6 being faster from a dig and definitely faster in a rolling race.

I also whole-heartedly agree with your last paragraph as well brotha. I would NEVER trade down my M5 for an M4. If I was to ever get an M4 I'd get it in addition to the M5. Like it has been said 1,000 times before, these cars are tools for different purposes, but all outstanding for what they were designed and built for.

Oh and I don't smoke weed. I literally can't since I'm still active duty military. Lol! If I was a civilian in Amsterdam however, that would be an entirely different story.

[B-1Pilot]

Originally Posted by ColdList

Ultimately though-I would NEVER take an M3/4 over an M5/6. I don't care how fast they are. The M5/6 is a TOTALLY different class of car. It is the pinnacle of BMW. They would have to REALLY step up the M3/4 interior appointments to make it attractive enough to change the perception. Even then, I don't think it ever takes the place. Two different cars. Two different target markets. I have always perceived the M3 to be a car for "younger" (no offense to anyone) drivers and people who would eventually trade "up" to an M5/6-excluding track drivers.

In my line of work when you perfectly hit the target, we call it a "shack"

Coldlist, you shacked it right here. I'd gladly give 1-2% of performance for a 30% bump in luxury at this point in my life.

But if we keep it just on performance, I think that for some it might be a tough pill to swallow that the M5 is no longer the apex BMW...
But then again, this happened when the E92 jumped the E60... then the F10 jumped the E92. Its logical that the F80 will jump the F10, but who knows what we will get out of the next M5 -- I'll wager it will beat the F80/82.

[ColdList]

Originally Posted by RPiM5

I hear ya brotha, and I agree on some points. I just saw another posting that the M3?m4 will be able to reach 0-60 in 3.9s with the DCT. Pretty impressive. I think that will be under perfect conditions as well, like you said.

Here's some facts though, I've raced buddies of mine back in Cali who owned tuned 135i's and tuned 1///M's. I raced both cars from a dig and from a rolling start with my F10 M5. Not only did my M5 sound way cooler , but I beat both in all racing regimes. My buddy with a tuned 135i claimed weight under 3,200lbs, about 450hp and around 380tq. My buddy with a tuned 1///M claimed weight under 3,200lbs and about 470hp and over 400tq. The rolling races weren't even fair, but the digs were interesting. They both got good launches from their 6spd manuals but once I hooked up the rear tires it wasn't even a race anymore. Granted the F80 M3 and F82 M4 will have the same exact DCT's as in the M5/M6 and will also have the same exact Active ///M Differential as in the M5/M6, so the results will be different I'm sure, but I'm still putting my money on the M5/M6 being faster from a dig and definitely faster in a rolling race.

But we all know yours is just a Dang SPECIAL freaking car!-joking aside. That thing is the true meaning of BEAST. At the end of the day I think it's going to be a pretty close competition.

Originally Posted by RPiM5

Oh and I don't smoke weed. I literally can't since I'm still active duty military. Lol! If I was a civilian in Amsterdam however, that would be an entirely different story.

Hahahahaha! Yeah, I know. And I also hear ya on Amsterdam!-lol!

[RPiM5]

Originally Posted by stealth.pilot

I wouldn't take an M4 over an M5, but I might take an M4 instead of a 911 because of the performance, higher ride height (this is a big deal to me, I hate low seating positions) and an interior that is now approaching Porsche levels (not as good as 991 but much better than 997.2). They have really dialed up the luxury in the M4 versus the standard 3 and 4 models - full merino leather, extensive deviated double stitching, the seat design. That cabin is really quite special - the contrast stitching in particular is an improvement over the M5.

But! But! No soft close doors! No Bang & Olufsen!! No 4-Way Climate Control!! And no Butt Massagers!!! Lol!

On a side note, I'm surprised there has been no mention of an ///M View in the M3/M4 Heads Up Display yet. Hmmmmm......

[ColdList]

Originally Posted by B-1 Pilot

In my line of work when you perfectly hit the target, we call it a "shack"

Coldlist, you shacked it right here. I'd gladly give 1-2% of performance for a 30% bump in luxury at this point in my life.

But if we keep it just on performance, I think that for some it might be a tough pill to swallow that the M5 is no longer the apex BMW...
But then again, this happened when the E92 jumped the E60... then the F10 jumped the E92. Its logical that the F80 will jump the F10, but who knows what we will get out of the next M5 -- I'll wager it will beat the F80/82.

- AGREED!

[B-1Pilot]

It's rear wheel drive, and by the looks of the buttons next to the DCT shifter will have 243 possible cominations of settings, so Motortrend is sure to hate it.

I do like the look of the interior -- the CF and the contrast stiching especially. However, the cockpit, since it shares with the F30, will just be too narrow for my taste in a daily driver. My wife thinks my M5 is too wide for her... wonder if I can convince her to move into an M3? After this last ice storm, I doubt she'll walk away from AWD.

[RPiM5]

We can't deny though that the ///M1 and the E30 ///M3 are what started and defined BMW ///Motorsport. Therefore we can say that the M3 and now M4 are BMW's crown jewels. They could not afford to get those cars wrong. The M5 and M6 has faced many critizism's over all generations, but I can't remember any generation of M3 recieving as many critizism's as the M5's have gotten. Maybe SMG II in the E46 M3 was the biggest. If one wants a BMW Sports car then you go buy an M4, if you want a BMW Sports Sedan, then you buy an M5, or now an M6 Gran Coupe. That's pretty much it.

If I ever want an affordable BMW Sports Car one day instead of a Sports Sedan, I'll go buy an M4. If I want something better, I'll go buy a 14' 911 GT3. And if I want something even better, I'll go buy a McLaren MP4-12C. In the Sports Sedan segment, there really is no clearly better car available than an M5. Sure there's different offerings, between Mercedes, Porsche, Audi, and Jaguar in the Sports Sedan segment, but none of those are quantifiably leaps and bounds better than an M5. Now if Porsche made a Sports Sedan that weighed 3,600lbs with a 4.5L Naturally Aspirated V12 making 600hp revving to 9,000rpm, then I'd call that the next level of Sports Sedan, and I'd highly consider buying that instead of an M5.

[ColdList]

Originally Posted by RPiM5

We can't deny though that the ///M1 and the E30 ///M3 are what started and defined BMW ///Motorsport. Therefore we can say that the M3 and now M4 are BMW's crown jewels. They could not afford to get those cars wrong. The M5 and M6 has faced many critizism's over all generations, but I can't remember any generation of M3 recieving as many critizism's as the M5's have gotten. Maybe SMG II in the E46 M3 was the biggest. If one wants a BMW Sports car then you go buy an M4, if you want a BMW Sports Sedan, then you buy an M5, or now an M6 Gran Coupe. That's pretty much it.

If I ever want an affordable BMW Sports Car one day instead of a Sports Sedan, I'll go buy an M4. If I want something better, I'll go buy a 14' 911 GT3. And if I want something even better, I'll go buy a McLaren MP4-12C. In the Sports Sedan segment, there really is no clearly better car available than an M5. Sure there's different offerings, between Mercedes, Porsche, Audi, and Jaguar in the Sports Sedan segment, but none of those are quantifiably leaps and bounds better than an M5. Now if Porsche made a Sports Sedan that weighed 3,600lbs with a 4.5L Naturally Aspirated V12 making 600hp revving to 9,000rpm, then I'd call that the next level of Sports Sedan, and I'd highly consider buying that instead of an M5.

[u2b]

[/u2b]

Pretty crazy! And it is reported to actually be 2.6!

[RPiM5]

Originally Posted by ColdList

[u2b]

[/u2b]

Pretty crazy! And it is reported to actually be 2.6!

Pretty cool! Notice how AWD and greater torque trumps the lower weight and higher horsepower of the McLaren.

[nybimmerfan]

The OP's aim is totally wrong. Believe me, there are cars out there much faster than the M5 and for that matter than the M3/M4 and are also thousands of dollars much cheaper which will easily beat the M5. If he is looking at an M5 to race, then his purpose for an M5 is misdirected! I have driven the M5 on a track and speed is not its great asset, however, when talking about track/road handling that is a different story.

[mdm0515]

Originally Posted by bufuro

so it seems to me that M3/4 is faster than M5/6 both in track/drag?

Kinda disappointing... (I just ordered M5 )

edit.

I know M5/6 is not for drag/track but kinda disappointing that only thing that our car is better compared to M3/4 is... space.. I hope I am wrong

Who cares? Like your car, keep it. I you don't, sell it. All this dick measuring is silly. IMHO

[Actor]

Originally Posted by mdm0515

Who cares? Like your car, keep it. I you don't, sell it. All this dick measuring is silly. IMHO

Horses for courses, I believe. The rationale for buying an M5 (luxury sedan, ballistic pace) and M3 (nimble, agile, grease-lightning quick) are very different. I am in the market for an M5 because I actually like the size of it with the pace it can offer while cruising sedately in absolute luxury when just chillin' with the posse. At my age, would always value fast luxury to all out performance. My Zimmer frames have to fit in the boot!

[greentrbo95gst]

Different cars that were built with different purpose. I still don't get why people compare M5 to an M3 or M5 to a P-Car or GTR. Sure it's fun to keyboard race and look at the specs, but there is no point in doing a heads up comparison since deep inside we all know what the goal of the m5 is.