UPDATE!!! German tuner LEIB Engineering cracked the F-series DME last week!!!

[Soorena]

Originally Posted by MCarsFan

I spoke to ESS Tuning and AMS yesterday. Both indicate they will be able to unlock the ECUs with a bench flash and undertake a remap in the new year.

They will not. I have the same tool that they got. It's a different approach. The RSA key is not yet cracked, but there is a way to get passed this encryption by making your own encryption. This however requires physical access to the DME and flashing via the CMD tool. Not as convenient as OBD-II through flash, but hey it's a much better option than soldering. I just finished tuning my friend's M5. I don't consider myself a professional tuner so we did some basic things, but what matter is it can be done and expect to get real tunes soon.

[Spinny02]

Originally Posted by Soorena

They will not. I have the same tool that they got. It's a different approach. The RSA key is not yet cracked, but there is a way to get passed this encryption by making your own encryption. This however requires physical access to the DME and flashing via the CMD tool. Not as convenient as OBD-II through flash, but hey it's a much better option than soldering. I just finished tuning my friend's M5. I don't consider myself a professional tuner so we did some basic things, but what matter is it can be done and expect to get real tunes soon.

Delimit speedo ?

[rafaele92]

They take off the ECU of the car.

Then open it and crack it

yesterday i saw a f10 535 being tune... Same for M5

My tuner only does diesel , but he says , in 1 day or 1 week , he can do Petrol BMW.

I already ordered KN filters and AMS catless dp

no more SPEEDO limit and CEL

[Soorena]

Originally Posted by Spinny02

Delimit speedo ?

Can be done as well.

[boots]

Even if I never added anymore hp, I'd like to have the limiter deleted

[BIGW0RM]

Finally a full ECU tune is here!

[Andym3100k]

Originally Posted by ILSMKU

Finally a full ECU tune is here!

Have been hearing that for quite a while but still no real results yet

Anyone with new real improve timing results pls don't mind to share with us.

1/4mile timing & 100-200 kph or 60-130??? Anyone?

[Hawkeye1]

Originally Posted by boots

Even if I never added anymore hp, I'd like to have the limiter deleted

Agreed. It sounds silly to think that 155 isn't enough, but with the added HP it's amazing how quickly you run into the limiter.

[boots]

True dat man. Right now we get to 155 very fast. I hate it when it cuts down

[PetrolFumes]

Originally Posted by Soorena

They will not. I have the same tool that they got. It's a different approach. The RSA key is not yet cracked, but there is a way to get passed this encryption by making your own encryption. This however requires physical access to the DME and flashing via the CMD tool. Not as convenient as OBD-II through flash, but hey it's a much better option than soldering. I just finished tuning my friend's M5. I don't consider myself a professional tuner so we did some basic things, but what matter is it can be done and expect to get real tunes soon.

are we talking RSA key like the company RSA. the security division of EMC?

[MCarsFan]

Br-Performance have just released their results. ESS and AMS both confirm they will have remapped ECUs for the M5 by January confirmed.

[Soorena]

Originally Posted by MPowerrF10

are we talking RSA key like the company RSA. the security division of EMC?

No, the encryption system. I do not recall the exact number, but from back of my head it's a 12 digit password for F chassis cars that needs to be hacked, twice the number as E chassis. I could be very much wrong though.

[RPiM5]

Originally Posted by Soorena

They will not. I have the same tool that they got. It's a different approach. The RSA key is not yet cracked, but there is a way to get passed this encryption by making your own encryption. This however requires physical access to the DME and flashing via the CMD tool. Not as convenient as OBD-II through flash, but hey it's a much better option than soldering. I just finished tuning my friend's M5. I don't consider myself a professional tuner so we did some basic things, but what matter is it can be done and expect to get real tunes soon.

This is what I thought. I will never send my ECU to Germany to have someone physically crack it open and install new hardware and software. I want a true RSA encryption crack on the stock ECU. This however will never likely be done. The encryption is 1056 bit and pretty much impossible to crack. Even Dinan said it was impossible.

I have been hearing recently of tuners here in the US getting in touch with these German tuners who will do the ECU modification for them. I don't know if AMS is in this camp but I suspect that they are.

Otherwise we would have a U.S. tuner just come out and say we cracked the RSA encryption, but they can't. This whole work around solution doesn't work for me. Not only that but you can't take your car back to the dealership after you do it. The dealership computers will freak out and see you have something different on your car.

I'm getting damn tired of all the subterfuge from these U.S. tuners making false or misleading claims that they have or are the ones who figured out how to gain access to the ECU logic.

I'm just gonna call out one I recently had to call out earlier today. There's a company in San Diego by the name of JailBreakTuning saying shit like this. They don't even have a legitimate web page up yet and are selling "Full ECU Tunes" for the S63tu's.

The fact is that no one has truly cracked the encryption. I don't intend on wasting my money on something that could possibly blow my engine. I'd rather spend my money on a Dinan or ESS piggyback. But even then, I just want the damn limiter removed, CEL gone, and Cold Start Eliminated and the Dinan and ESS don't do that.

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by RPiM5

This is what I thought. I will never send my ECU to Germany to have someone physically crack it open and install new hardware and software. I want a true RSA encryption crack on the stock ECU. This however will never likely be done. The encryption is 1056 bit and pretty much impossible to crack. Even Dinan said it was impossible.

I have been hearing recently of tuners here in the US getting in touch with these German tuners who will do the ECU modification for them. I don't know if AMS is in this camp but I suspect that they are.

Otherwise we would have a U.S. tuner just come out and say we cracked the RSA encryption, but they can't. This whole work around solution doesn't work for me. Not only that but you can't take your car back to the dealership after you do it. The dealership computers will freak out and see you have something different on your car.

I'm getting damn tired of all the subterfuge from these U.S. tuners making false or misleading claims that they have or are the ones who figured out how to gain access to the ECU logic.

I'm just gonna call out one I recently had to call out earlier today. There's a company in San Diego by the name of JailBreakTuning saying shit like this. They don't even have a legitimate web page up yet and are selling "Full ECU Tunes" for the S63tu's.

The fact is that no one has truly cracked the encryption. I don't intend on wasting my money on something that could possibly blow my engine. I'd rather spend my money on a Dinan or ESS piggyback. But even then, I just want the damn limiter removed, CEL gone, and Cold Start Eliminated and the Dinan and ESS don't do that.

There was a thread (or several?) about JailBreak Tuning I seem to recall.

IIRC it had a rather "interesting" past under a different name but same owner...

[Soorena]

Originally Posted by RPiM5

This is what I thought. I will never send my ECU to Germany to have someone physically crack it open and install new hardware and software. I want a true RSA encryption crack on the stock ECU. This however will never likely be done. The encryption is 1056 bit and pretty much impossible to crack. Even Dinan said it was impossible.

I have been hearing recently of tuners here in the US getting in touch with these German tuners who will do the ECU modification for them. I don't know if AMS is in this camp but I suspect that they are.

Otherwise we would have a U.S. tuner just come out and say we cracked the RSA encryption, but they can't. This whole work around solution doesn't work for me. Not only that but you can't take your car back to the dealership after you do it. The dealership computers will freak out and see you have something different on your car.

I'm getting damn tired of all the subterfuge from these U.S. tuners making false or misleading claims that they have or are the ones who figured out how to gain access to the ECU logic.

I'm just gonna call out one I recently had to call out earlier today. There's a company in San Diego by the name of JailBreakTuning saying shit like this. They don't even have a legitimate web page up yet and are selling "Full ECU Tunes" for the S63tu's.

The fact is that no one has truly cracked the encryption. I don't intend on wasting my money on something that could possibly blow my engine. I'd rather spend my money on a Dinan or ESS piggyback. But even then, I just want the damn limiter removed, CEL gone, and Cold Start Eliminated and the Dinan and ESS don't do that.

There a few thing that i'd like to point. First of cracking and soldering though for you and other BMW guys is like a taboo, it has been the main way of tuning for AMGs. Renntech, probably the most respected name in MB tuning, still does their tuning by drilling DME's main chip. The main problem with this solution at the current situation is that US people, the biggest gp to run aftermarket tunes, don't trust European tuners simply because they have not heard of them. If Dinan or ESS or any other reputable tuner offered this sort of tuning this issue would have been less of a issue i believe. But let me tell you that every single base tune available for late models BMWs are coming from these unknown-to-some European tuners. This business is so shady you don't even believe it when you get aware of how things go. In one particular case 3 big names claimed that others' tunes were inferior to theirs even though all of them legally and illegally got their tunes from one source.

As for working around the encryption it has nothing to do with blowing engine on it's own. An open source flash in inexperienced hands will blow one thing or two as well. The only black magic thing here that you don't have in open source tuning is the hacking part to get pass the encryption, the rest is like any other cases. You get access to lots of data which you don't understand shit, you have to first find someone with software degree to translate these gibberish raw data into charts and maps, something that tuners know. Now think of the biggest name in tuning industry, a name that you trust and then think of the least trusted name. If in future they both have tunes available for your car, chances are that they had this process done by very one source. You also get a BMW file that lets you have access of hundreds of maps available. You just need to find the value you are looking for and adjust it. This part, the adjusting part, is what that determines you will have a blown engine or not. And BTW a flash, even the most basic one, surpasses any piggy back available in terms reliability, power and driveability. The sheer lack of parameters the current piggybacks control is a huge let down.

Originally Posted by Boss330

There was a thread (or several?) about JailBreak Tuning I seem to recall.

IIRC it had a rather "interesting" past under a different name but same owner...

JAilBreak Tuning is run by Matt AKA PedM5 a respectful guy from the E39 days. He and Mike Benvo used to work with Powerchip which was a scandal if put simply. Recently he came back under the Jailbreak Tuning name and started by offering to fix the faulty PC tunes for free. Pretty stand up act if you ask me. Make no mistake, he's not Wayne Besanko.

[mcvaughan]

Nothing's impossible. Where's there's a will, there's a way. I think someone will figure it out eventually...

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by Soorena

JAilBreak Tuning is run by Matt AKA PedM5 a respectful guy from the E39 days. He and Mike Benvo used to work with Powerchip which was a scandal if put simply. Recently he came back under the Jailbreak Tuning name and started by offering to fix the faulty PC tunes for free. Pretty stand up act if you ask me. Make no mistake, he's not Wayne Besanko.

I don't know the guy, but he was banned from M5Board last year under circumstances that doesn't seem favourable for him IMO...

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e39...ml#post4178081

While mods usually do not explain their actions, I'll provide some info.

Ped M5 and jailbreak tuning is a commercial entity, this is clear. It started here and has grown.

We undeniably bent WAY over backwards- allowing multiple group buys as his company got off the ground. (In fact, we perhaps have been taken advantage of now that members are carrying the torch for him.) Despite our balanced and helpful stance Matt has ignored our requests over many months to get with Sales at autoguide (the owners of the board) and become a sponsor.

Ultimately it appears that he has no intent to support the forum that has garnered him much business- indeed this was the main vehicle for his entry into this business- and appears to have become a major marketing and customer service arm for his enterprise.

This led to the ban, plain and simple.


If there is any M5Board member that believes that we have acted unfairly or without restraint and fair warning, they should PM me or ANY moderator and we would be happy to discuss.

I dont want to get into a public conversation. Everyone knows how to PM, right?

A

Also found this:

As I mentioned earlier, my ECU housing was severely damaged from Powerchip when they accessed it. In fact, when Matt was trying to open it I was at BBI Autosport where my car was being kept while the ECU was removed. I watched him take a hammer and chisel and wack away at it repeatedly. I asked him if that was the best way to access the ECU and he told me it wouldn't be a problem, that this is how it must be done. Well, apparently not, because my car just got back from KEYS Mercedes service where it has been sitting for the last 3 weeks after it began driving erratically and died in the middle of Sepulveda on my way to the airport. The dealer found water intrusion in my ECU circuit-board which was as dead as fried chicken. They could tell that it had been tampered with and would not cover it under warranty so I received a nice $1940 invoice for an early Christmas present. I'm less than thrilled...


Read more: http://mbworld.org/forums/engine-per...#ixzz3MMhx8riE

And this post by PedM5 seems a bit strange for an expert tuner...

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e39...chip-tune.html

But that Besanko dude is an "interesting" character...

http://jalopnik.com/5713816/how-an-a...a-police-visit

[VintageFerrari]

Originally Posted by Soorena

And BTW a flash, even the most basic one, surpasses any piggy back available in terms reliability, power and driveability. The sheer lack of parameters the current piggybacks control is a huge let down.

So you suggesting that someone who currently has a DINANTRONICS would be wise to switch, for instance, to JailBreak's tune?

[RPiM5]

Thanks for the clarification Boss330. Hope things aren't too cold over there.

Originally Posted by Boss330

I don't know the guy, but he was banned from M5Board last year under circumstances that doesn't seem favourable for him IMO...

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e39...ml#post4178081



Also found this:



And this post by PedM5 seems a bit strange for an expert tuner...

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e39...chip-tune.html

But that Besanko dude is an "interesting" character...

http://jalopnik.com/5713816/how-an-a...a-police-visit

[Soorena]

Originally Posted by mcvaughan

Nothing's impossible. Where's there's a will, there's a way. I think someone will figure it out eventually...

Look at some Toyota cars. With the number of their cars you see on the road you would think that their vast aftermarket can come up with basic tunes. But the encryptions are so though to break there are no tunes available for example for the ISF. The 1024 bit encryption is claimed by many the same level of security used by security agencies. Compared to the already-though-to-break 256 bit key as used before it's really really hard to hack.

Originally Posted by Boss330

I don't know the guy, but he was banned from M5Board last year under circumstances that doesn't seem favourable for him IMO...

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e39...ml#post4178081



Also found this:



And this post by PedM5 seems a bit strange for an expert tuner...

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e39...chip-tune.html

But that Besanko dude is an "interesting" character...

http://jalopnik.com/5713816/how-an-a...a-police-visit

M5board is a let down. From their technical discussions to the moderating. Their vendor system is so flawed and so shady that you can judge people by their standards. Powerchip for example long after their scandal still was a official sponsor of M5board and the site owner stood by them because money. Matt wasn't a tuner in PC, he was a salesman iirc. No one becomes an expert tuner by a night, but 6 years is long enough to go from noob to good in tuning. Not defending Matt or stating he's a capable tuner, just saying that firstly the way he was associated with Powerchip is not what shown and also he might/or might not be a good tuner. What i can comment is that he's a stand up guy in contrast of other tuners and this is coming from a guy who has been active in BMW forums since early 2000s on DTMPower.net who has seen many BMW tuners come and go.

Originally Posted by VintageFerrari

So you suggesting that someone who currently has a DINANTRONICS would be wise to switch, for instance, to JailBreak's tune?

A flash done by a tuner knowing what he is doing would be a nice upgrade in any measuring way over Dinantronics. There are however some strong points about piggyback that cannot be overlooked such as ease of installation compared to direct flash and of course Dinan's warranty.

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by Soorena

Look at some Toyota cars. With the number of their cars you see on the road you would think that their vast aftermarket can come up with basic tunes. But the encryptions are so though to break there are no tunes available for example for the ISF. The 1024 bit encryption is claimed by many the same level of security used by security agencies. Compared to the already-though-to-break 256 bit key as used before it's really really hard to hack.

M5board is a let down. From their technical discussions to the moderating. Their vendor system is so flawed and so shady that you can judge people by their standards. Powerchip for example long after their scandal still was a official sponsor of M5board and the site owner stood by them because money. Matt wasn't a tuner in PC, he was a salesman iirc. No one becomes an expert tuner by a night, but 6 years is long enough to go from noob to good in tuning. Not defending Matt or stating he's a capable tuner, just saying that firstly the way he was associated with Powerchip is not what shown and also he might/or might not be a good tuner. What i can comment is that he's a stand up guy in contrast of other tuners and this is coming from a guy who has been active in BMW forums since early 2000s on DTMPower.net who has seen many BMW tuners come and go.

A flash done by a tuner knowing what he is doing would be a nice upgrade in any measuring way over Dinantronics. There are however some strong points about piggyback that cannot be overlooked such as ease of installation compared to direct flash and of course Dinan's warranty.

Yeah, I have no knowledge apart from what I read on some of those forums. Matt might be a great guy, and if so, the Powerchip scandal certainly has been bad for him because that part of his past will come up from time to time (like here). I saw several "Another happy Jailbreak customer" threads over on M5Board, so at least he does something right

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by RPiM5

Thanks for the clarification Boss330. Hope things aren't too cold over there.

It's actually raining and we have between 5-7 deg C at the moment... Our relatives that came from Michigan had full on winter and snow, unlike here...

In the mountains it's snow and skiing weather though