NA V10 vs TT V8...I'll take the turbo lag please!

[aus]

Originally Posted by smashhell

I have to disagree.
Think of the previous M5/M6.
Sure they have high revving V10 engine. But are they any luxurious or any less equipped than a regular 5/6 series? No of course not.
They are meant to be built as a beefed up 5/6 series and not as a 'racecar'.
The car for that purpose is the M3 GTS.

Where did I say anything about an M5 race car?
Bottom line, //M engines have always had inspiration from race ENGINES. Now they get inspiration from an N engine. They don't significantly higher and don't have that high pitched shriek you can only get from 8,000+ RPM.
It's also sad when people are trying ton convince themselves turbo lag is good... IMO.

[SANguru]

GT2's are turbo'ed minus AWD

Originally Posted by aus

Depends on if you're an old school //M enthusiast. //M engines have always been about revs and linear power delivery. They do tend to feel a little "flat" down low, but they'll just keep revving and revving until they just scream, similar to a race engine.
This engine is a tuned N engine that doesn't offer much in terms of extra revs. It's REALLY easy to get power out of a boosted engine. //M used to essentially be the GT3/2 cars of Porsche. You'll never seen a GT3 Cayanne or Panamera. This is what really gets the old school guys upset. The X5/6M are amazing cars, but not what //M would have built back in the day. They would have been called CSi models, but BMW want's to milk //M for all it can, and so you also have M-Performance too.

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[aus]

Originally Posted by SANguru

GT2's are turbo'ed minus AWD

True that, but they don't weigh 4,000 lbs. And IMO, they're not nearly as desirable as the GT3, GT3-RS and in particular, the GT3-RS 4.0.
Porsche also has a LONG history of turbo 911 cars, where //M has a LONG history of high reving, high specific output motors.

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[grimlock]

Originally Posted by aus

Depends on if you're an old school //M enthusiast. //M engines have always been about revs and linear power delivery. They do tend to feel a little "flat" down low, but they'll just keep revving and revving until they just scream, similar to a race engine.
This engine is a tuned N engine that doesn't offer much in terms of extra revs. It's REALLY easy to get power out of a boosted engine. //M used to essentially be the GT3/2 cars of Porsche. You'll never seen a GT3 Cayanne or Panamera. This is what really gets the old school guys upset. The X5/6M are amazing cars, but not what //M would have built back in the day. They would have been called CSi models, but BMW want's to milk //M for all it can, and so you also have M-Performance too.

.

I remember when the e60 M5 came out. I had never even sat in a bmw then (ok, maybe once) and you KNEW it was crazy. That is, it was no ordinary 5 series. Now, sadly, it's a 550i with different software and a few mods. Feel free to throw the book at me, I don't think there really is that much more you can defend it with, it is, that bad.. because they got cheap.
Porsche gets spec engines, 2.7 and 3.4 for the boxter.. and the same for all the other models.
That is what I would pay for. Not like pay $100 for windows that doesn't work very and only enriches Bill Gates further.

[PappSchlumpf]

The only reason why I never bought a BMW before was the lack of Boost! Now that you get not one, but two turbos... I'm sold... Expecting delivery at the Welt on November 22nd!

[fuddman]

Originally Posted by Rob///M5

5 years from now we'll be debating whether battery assisted cars are true M cars.

If these articles are to be believed, you might be a bit off on your estimate:

http://news.yahoo.com/u-electric-car...--finance.html

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...88N0CT20120924

http://news.yahoo.com/gm-discounts-v...143046010.html

[Rob///M5]

Originally Posted by fuddman

If these articles are to be believed, you might be a bit off on your estimate:

http://news.yahoo.com/u-electric-car...--finance.html

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...88N0CT20120924

http://news.yahoo.com/gm-discounts-v...143046010.html

I'm actually thinking of electric performance enhancements, not necessarily engine replacement.

"If you put an electric motor in each wheel then there are huge possibilities with things like traction control and stability control." - James Widmer, Newcastle University, UK

The point is change DNE bad.

[Kurt_OH]

Originally Posted by M5 Orthodox

As I was one of the lucky ones to win the lottery and make the VIN list, I had my M5 towed on a flat-top to the dealership today. On the upside, the dealer gave me a 2008 M6 (6MT) to play with for the next 2 weeks (or who knows how long) while the oil pump gets delivered.

Now, although I haven't had my well baby check on the F10 M5 yet (1200 mile service), I did manage to have some fun with it, and on more than one account, I pushed it to about 1/4 short of full throttle, shifting out around 5,000 rpm in S3 with engine dynamic setting to sport +. I'll dissect that experience in a minute...

In comparison, today I drove the 6MT M6 like a scene out of Ronin. On the interstate, windy country roads, drop clutch start, tires spinning, MDM, 8,250 rpm, screaming V10, M-mode engaged, pure madness.

I have read so much on the forums about the turbo lag. Members lamenting the loss of the NA V10, and how the F10 isn't a "true" M-car.

Here is my poor man's 0.02 on the NA V10 vs the TT V8:
Yes, you are all correct. There is a turbo lag, especially < 3,500 rpm. On one hand, the NA V10 is crisp, responsive, and almost surgical in its delivery of power. Coming out of corners, the power is there as soon as you put your foot to the pedal and the engine SCREAMS as it revs up to an ungodly limit. But, on the other hand, it's a bit listless. It's so predictable and consistent that I'm never taken aback by it. I learn to expect it, and it's there for me. And once it's that predictable, I'm sort of over it.

I have no idea what the TT V8 feels like above 5,000 rpm. What I do know is that when I squeeze the throttle down to 3/4-full in S3, second gear, starting at about 2,000 rpm, I feel my heart beat a little faster in anticipation. I know something crazy is about to happen, but I don't know exactly when and how intense it will feel. As the revs climb to 2,500 I feel myself sink into my seat and my grip on the steering wheel tightens to keep my perspective on the road. Somewhere around 3,000 - 3,500 rpm I am sucked into my seat with a force that is increasing EXPONENTIALLY and all I can do is crack a shit-eating grin as I think to myself "Holy Shit!". The tach is spinning so fast it becomes distorted and I hit the right paddle somewhere around what I think is 4,500 rpm to make sure I'm out by 5,000. And the DCT slams 3rd gear into place before I'm done fully depressing the paddle.

Turbo lag, to me, creates a degree of freedom between me and the Beast. It's an ever-present reminder that the Beast cannot be tamed, controlled, and thereby fully understood. 95% of the time I drive the M5 in a calm but spirited fashion. Drag a few gears here and there, don't shift out too quickly, let the engine sing a little, and make the onramp something to look forward to. 5% of the time I get the devil sitting on my shoulder and do things like I did with the M6 today. For the most part, I don't want the car to say "as you like it" when I say jump. I want it to say, "watch this" and blow me away like it's the first time all over again.

You could substitute this entire post of TT vs. NA with "Automatic Transmission" vs. any of the direct drive transmissions (DCT, manual).

NOT saying good or bad, but certainly GT vs. sports car. Not that any M5/M6 is a sports car anyway; labeling the M3 as such is a reach. But both of those things - TT and auto trans, are similar. Make the car softer, less driveable, less track-worthy.