Little F10 M5 issues

[savarona]

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Dont get me wrong. I love my car but....

This car has to much power IMO.
I can almost never win a trafficlight run because of the DSG turning in immediately.
After a couple of meters the car takes of like Ã* fighter jet and leaves everything behind.

And also the gap between flooring the gas and respons is getting on my nerves. Is that what they call turbo lag??

And the last thing is the steering wheel. I dont like it. Its not sporty and the middle is too big. I like the M6 steering wheel.

No big deals but still annoying.

Anybody with the same feeling??

[singularity]

Originally Posted by savarona

This car has to much power IMO.
I can almost never win a trafficlight run because of the DSG turning in immediately.
After a couple of meters the car takes of like Ã* fighter jet and leaves everything behind.

I agree that it's almost not possible to put that power on the road. Other than its benefits at higher speeds, an average driver would be better off with less power when moving from a standstill, you either get wheelspin with DSC OFF or too much interference with DSC ON. MDM is the compromise, and I dont count launch control because manual states too much "WARNING: COMPONENT WEAR WILL OCCUR" that makes me wonder why they have it in the first place... doing it once a month is also useless on drags because the driver would have no practice and probably end up in a crash or humiliating defeat.

Dry weather, warm asphalt, warm tires, MDM help. Also try to stop about 1 meter from the traffic light and start moving BEFORE it goes green.

Originally Posted by savarona

And also the gap between flooring the gas and respons is getting on my nerves. Is that what they call turbo lag??

yes, that's the turbo lag, try to estimate the traffic light if you're moving from a standstill. Your own reaction time can help too.

Originally Posted by savarona

And the last thing is the steering wheel. I dont like it. Its not sporty and the middle is too big. I like the M6 steering wheel.

I disagree, I like the steering wheel, its feedback and it suits the car's status.

Whom did you try racing and what was the outcome?

[phish_100]

How comes you don't win traffic light race if after 2m, the car takes off like a jet?

I agree that there is some slight lag, but I think you're mistaking lag with DSC kicking in so power doesn't transfer to the road immediately. Usually if the road is dry and you don't slam your foot down but press more gradually, the power usually goes down very violently and quickly!! Don't mean to patronise or anything!!

[sparkyg]

Dont place any emphasis on performance with those summer tires when its cold.

Hold off till May and let us know then.

Interesting what you say about lag, try to launch with a little foot on gas and brake and spool the engine a bit.

[singularity]

I want to mention something that I found to be dangerously bad, I had a spirited driving experience couple of days ago and after 5 minutes my brakes became VERY soft, felt like I lost 80% of my braking power and it was only working when pushed all the way to the bottom. Overheat?

[savarona]

Originally Posted by singularity

I want to mention something that I found to be dangerously bad, I had a spirited driving experience couple of days ago and after 5 minutes my brakes became VERY soft, felt like I lost 80% of my braking power and it was only working when pushed all the way to the bottom. Overheat?

Yes. I had it to. I had to brake full power but it felt like just what you said like 80% lost.

But it was only ones.

[singularity]

Originally Posted by savarona

Yes. I had it to. I had to brake full power but it felt like just what you said like 80% lost.

But it was only ones.

It was only once for me too, but it's very dangerous. I haven't had it on my M6 E63 after much more stressful driving. I don't remember manual mentioning or warning anything about this.

[sparkyg]

Originally Posted by singularity

It was only once for me too, but it's very dangerous. I haven't had it on my M6 E63 after much more stressful driving. I don't remember manual mentioning or warning anything about this.

That's not cool. Wonder if there is a brake issue in terms of bedding or something. Fck they ran the car at the ring so the brakes can't be that bad.

As always heat is the enemy. I wonder if the brakes are all show.

I know the member from Singapore mentioned he was not happy with the braking.

Gonna be interesting once the car hits the US.

[clar]

Originally Posted by savarona

Dont get me wrong. I love my car but....

This car has to much power IMO.
I can almost never win a trafficlight run because of the DSG turning in immediately.
After a couple of meters the car takes of like Ã* fighter jet and leaves everything behind.

And also the gap between flooring the gas and respons is getting on my nerves. Is that what they call turbo lag??

And the last thing is the steering wheel. I dont like it. Its not sporty and the middle is too big. I like the M6 steering wheel.

No big deals but still annoying.

Anybody with the same feeling??

MDM is the way to go if u wanna get some serious acceleration out of this car from a standstill. With MDM in summer temperature, the power is pretty usable. As for lag, so long as u have the gear selected, it's generally quite lag free and keep the rev above 3000 rpm in the higher gears. I do feel that the response of this car is not as good as it could be. My prev 135i with Perf power pack felt more lag free. I believe M will release some sort of power pack that will remedy the issue and we will all say it should have come with it in the first place. Like u, i can't stand the steering wheel. It's not sporty looking at all. The only good thing about the wheel is the DCT paddles. I love its tactile clicky feel when pulled. Functionally, the steering is perfectly fine. It's just aesthetically challenged.

My biggest complaint about this car is still the brakes. Initial brake bite is seriously lacking and completely different from all BMWs i have driven. A heavy braking force is required. I also do not like the gas pedal. There is too much travel just to do a "pedal to the metal." The brake pedal also has some issue. The stalk of the pedal seems too short and the tip of my foot often gets caught by the plastic housing on top of the pedal. It's disconcerting to say the least. I have to consciously place the heel of my foot correctly to prevent that. That's not something i have to do in the M3, which i feel is more ergonomic. I will go take some pics later in case some of u guys are wondering what i am talking about.

[singularity]

Originally Posted by clar

I have to consciously place the heel of my foot correctly to prevent that. I will go take some pics later in case some of u guys are wondering what i am talking about.

Clar, you mean heels like these?!

[clar]

Originally Posted by singularity

It was only once for me too, but it's very dangerous. I haven't had it on my M6 E63 after much more stressful driving. I don't remember manual mentioning or warning anything about this.

I have heard about this happening from the dealer and they replaced the brake pump for one of the cars. You might wanna get it checked at the dealership.

[clar]

Originally Posted by singularity

Clar, you mean heels like these?!

See my image below. The tip of the feet can touch the top plastic housing of the brake pedal.

[singularity]

Originally Posted by clar

See my image below. The tip of the feet can touch the top plastic housing of the brake pedal.

I don't have that problem, but my seat is pushed back quite a bit though and I rest my right foot at the bottom tip of the pedal, not on top. By the way this is not be the most aesthetically pleasing comment, but driving in socks or bare feet is by far the best and most accurate way of driving and feeling the car for me.

[mdh]

Originally Posted by singularity

I want to mention something that I found to be dangerously bad, I had a spirited driving experience couple of days ago and after 5 minutes my brakes became VERY soft, felt like I lost 80% of my braking power and it was only working when pushed all the way to the bottom. Overheat?

There is something seriously wrong with your brakes. I would take it to the dealer IMMEDIATELY. I race, and have tracked many cars, including my E60 M5. There may be some fade in the brakes after several very hard laps around a track, but you simply cannot get that kind of brake use on the street. 'Spirited driving' is just not the same as repeated threshold braking on the track. Plus, what will happen in that case is you'll notice your pedal effort and braking distances will increase gradually.

80% loss of braking and excessive pedal travel indicates a very serious problem.

[clar]

Originally Posted by singularity

I don't have that problem, but my seat is pushed back quite a bit though and I rest my right foot at the bottom tip of the pedal, not on top. By the way this is not be the most aesthetically pleasing comment, but driving in socks or bare feet is by far the best and most accurate way of driving and feeling the car for me.

I sit quite near to the steering wheel. It's been like this since i attended bmw driving course. Anyway, there is no perfect car. I just make a mental note on feet positioning in the M5. Annoying, but i can live with it.

[GTR-Dad]

+1 for getting brakes checked, but I'm curious what 'spirited driving' looked like that day?

Repeated brake application from high speeds or extended sessions of hard throttle/hard brakes/hard throttle.... would heat up the brakes, but I have never seen that happen on public roads.

My guess is that it's a combination of hard driving and not yet fully bedded brakes.

[singularity]

Originally Posted by GTR-Dad

+1 for getting brakes checked, but I'm curious what 'spirited driving' looked like that day?

Repeated brake application from high speeds or extended sessions of hard throttle/hard brakes/hard throttle.... would heat up the brakes, but I have never seen that happen on public roads.

My guess is that it's a combination of hard driving and not yet fully bedded brakes.

It happened after having braking twice from about 170 km/h to a full stop within 3 minutes followed by by 2 minutes of full throttle and medium-hard braking while maneuvering. Those new Mercedes E550 Coupe are very fast for a non-AMG.

[sparkyg]

That is gonna be a shitload of heat in the brakes. Not sure the brakes will be able to take that kind of abuse. The car is heavy and generally speaking 170km/h-0 braking 2x within 3 minutes is gonna trash any brakes. Dont forget this is a 1900+kg car.

I bet my M3 Brembo GT kit would have problems with all that heat.

[singularity]

Originally Posted by sparkyg

That is gonna be a shitload of heat in the brakes. Not sure the brakes will be able to take that kind of abuse. The car is heavy and generally speaking 170km/h-0 braking 2x within 3 minutes is gonna trash any brakes. Dont forget this is a 1900+kg car.

I bet my M3 Brembo GT kit would have problems with all that heat.

I understand, but I haven't had any brake overheating and losing 80% of power on my E63 M6 in years. I have had to replace brake disks once because of uneven brake pad wear and driving into car wash with heated brakes, but it they never let me down under high loads. I guess it has to do with M5 being faster and heavier.

[sparkyg]

Originally Posted by singularity

I understand, but I haven't had any brake overheating and losing 80% of power on my E63 M6 in years. I have had to replace brake disks once because of uneven brake pad wear and driving into car wash with heated brakes, but it they never let me down under high loads. I guess it has to do with M5 being faster and heavier.

Can you say with certainty that you have driven the E63 M6 exactly the same way and saw no effects in braking performance? Not calling you out, but I just wanna compare apples to apples.

If you say yes then thats fine, I just wanna ask.

The E63 is no lightweight either so I just want to compare similar events and forget about the weight.

[singularity]

Originally Posted by sparkyg

Can you say with certainty that you have driven the E63 M6 exactly the same way and saw no effects in braking performance? Not calling you out, but I just wanna compare apples to apples.

If you say yes then thats fine, I just wanna ask.

The E63 is no lightweight either so I just want to compare similar events and forget about the weight.

Yeah, on multiple occasions driven E63 M6 even harder with full-throttle and hard-braking for even 10 minutes, but not as intensive with high-speed braking to a stop. Maybe it was the hard-braking at high speeds that caused an overheat. Compared to E63 M6 it's partially because of the more refined braking on M5, no unnecessary ABS interference and much smoother made me comfortable doing it.

[sparkyg]

Originally Posted by singularity

Yeah, on multiple occasions driven E63 M6 even harder with full-throttle and hard-braking for even 10 minutes, but not as intensive with high-speed braking to a stop. Maybe it was the hard-braking at high speeds that caused an overheat. Compared to E63 M6 it's partially because of the more refined braking on M5, no unnecessary ABS interference and much smoother made me comfortable doing it.

Do you still have the M6 or did it go when the F10 came in?

I drove the the E60/E63 M5/M6 at BMW M School and on speeds up to 120 km/h the braking was ok.

I have heard problems through on high speed braking at VIR at the Advanced M School since that course reach speeds similar to what you were driving in.

Braking is all about heat managment. Lots of guys in their M3 change the brake fluid and add SST lines and get immediate better feel and heat performance. Not saying this is what you should do.

It'll be interesting once the car gets to the US, the larger market will ferret out all the cars weak points.

No car is perfect and as a day-day car the M5 is prob perfect but getting out of the comfort zone will certainly bring out the cars weak points.

That said, paying over $100k USD for a car and getting shit brakes is not acceptable. We'll see if other begin to have issues during spirited driving.

Lets keep this topic alive.

Any other owners have poor brake performance/fade feedback?