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      01-29-2015, 07:28 PM   #177
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I guess I'm in the minority here since I don't think the looks are akin to a dumpster fire. It's miles ahead of the angular transformer looking last gen car and I actually like it. I also don't care how old the engine design may be (whatever that means) ... It puts out 640HP! It's just sick on paper. My only gripe in the past is the cheapish interior and I don't know whether they unf*&^ked that part. If they do, I'll buy one in minute. For now, I still love the lines of the M5 and it's all-around prowess. I don't need the fastest sedan per se (Although that's nice bragging rights and all) and also compromise everything else that's important to me. As far as a dead company, they seem to be thriving now. So, what's a few billion in bailout in the past amongst friends.
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      03-20-2015, 02:27 AM   #178
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It's quantity at GM vs. QUALITY at BMW... When I was in college, I recall Ford's commercials... "Quality is Job One".. My friends and I would say "Quality is Job None"

Ever notice how quickly, Gm vehicles look dated? Most of their products age very poorly... Meanwhile, the German cars... can go 10+ yrs and still look like a current model... I had a 2002 Porsche 911... I took it in for an alignment... While I was waiting, someone walked up to me and asked if it's a 2010 or 2012... Same here with the M5..

GM has not learned anything about being subtle. They're the noisy obnoxious kid at the playground... Look at me... look at me... For instance, take their ridiculous LEDs... Their headlights look like LED on crack! Where as BMW.. angel eyes.. simple and subtle... And those numbers impress you?? Really? Wait til the next gen M5 arrives ;-) I'm sure BMW will give the CTS-V a one-punch KO.
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      03-20-2015, 07:55 AM   #179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fmohajer View Post
It's quantity at GM vs. QUALITY at BMW... When I was in college, I recall Ford's commercials... "Quality is Job One".. My friends and I would say "Quality is Job None"

Ever notice how quickly, Gm vehicles look dated? Most of their products age very poorly... Meanwhile, the German cars... can go 10+ yrs and still look like a current model... I had a 2002 Porsche 911... I took it in for an alignment... While I was waiting, someone walked up to me and asked if it's a 2010 or 2012... Same here with the M5..

GM has not learned anything about being subtle. They're the noisy obnoxious kid at the playground... Look at me... look at me... For instance, take their ridiculous LEDs... Their headlights look like LED on crack! Where as BMW.. angel eyes.. simple and subtle... And those numbers impress you?? Really? Wait til the next gen M5 arrives ;-) I'm sure BMW will give the CTS-V a one-punch KO.
Agree. This CTS-V already looks dated and it's not even hit the streets yet.
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      03-20-2015, 08:35 AM   #180
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Agree. This CTS-V already looks dated and it's not even hit the streets yet.
Lol! I agree that in certain respects it does. Especially the stock wheels. Only 19" wheels are offered. However, the LCD Instrument display is quite good. Not as classy as the F10 instrument display, but definitely more techno feel to it.

When does production start anyways? July I think.
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      03-20-2015, 08:49 AM   #181
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I guess I'm in the minority here since I don't think the looks are akin to a dumpster fire. It's miles ahead of the angular transformer looking last gen car and I actually like it. I also don't care how old the engine design may be (whatever that means) ... It puts out 640HP! It's just sick on paper. My only gripe in the past is the cheapish interior and I don't know whether they unf*&^ked that part. If they do, I'll buy one in minute. For now, I still love the lines of the M5 and it's all-around prowess. I don't need the fastest sedan per se (Although that's nice bragging rights and all) and also compromise everything else that's important to me. As far as a dead company, they seem to be thriving now. So, what's a few billion in bailout in the past amongst friends.
I've sat in the 2016 CTS-V. I wouldn't exactly say that they unf$%ked the interior, but it's definitely better than the previous generation V. The ergonomics just simply are not as good as the F10's and the quality of materials is in fact better but the merino leather in the F10 is still of far better quality than GM's leather. The tech inside the interior is severely lacking when it comes to the nav display and functions of that system, but the LCD instrument display is pretty awesome actually. You can get a HUD in the CTS-V now too. The back seat of the 2016 CTS-V is where things start to go badly for it compared to BMW's though. The back seat of the M5 is plush, soft, and elegant even without the Full Leather option and the Executive Package. But most M5's are equipped with the Executive Package and the Full Leather option and that just gives the back seat area a huge bench mark of class, quality, and technology that the CTS-V can never match.

I decided upon my analogy a long time ago. If both cars were military bombers, the BMW M5, would be the B-2 Stealth Bomber, fast, extremely sophisticated, stealthy, and elegant, yet subsonic but still has an extremely long range because it has no fuselage creating all that extra drag so it's extremely aerodynamically efficient. Where as the 2016 CTS-V is more the B-52 type of bomber, able to just brute force it's way into enemy airspace while carrying an ungodly bomb load capacity. Not sophisticated by today's standards at all but employing the best technology of the last 50 years offering nothing new in it's construction from the future though. It's almost really apples and oranges. Both cars/aircraft have the same mission but go about it very different ways.
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      03-20-2015, 08:54 AM   #182
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Agree. This CTS-V already looks dated and it's not even hit the streets yet.
I agree with the various 'dated' comments, but they prompt me to add this observation. I hope everyone who buys a car for more than just utility use has an appreciation for the styling of the car as it is at the time of purchase and will be able to enjoy the look of it for many years, even as the manufacturer leaves it behind with new styling statements. I owned a 1994 Lexus SC400 for 16 years and still loved looking at it even in the 16th year, as 'dated' as it was. Technology finally lured me to more performance and interior amenities in the M5, but I still like the old Lexus. I believe the 2013 M5 will last as long in my esteem as a magnificent 4 door sedan, even as BMW changes the shape of the new models over the years.
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      03-20-2015, 09:12 AM   #183
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I agree with the various 'dated' comments, but they prompt me to add this observation. I hope everyone who buys a car for more than just utility use has an appreciation for the styling of the car as it is at the time of purchase and will be able to enjoy the look of it for many years, even as the manufacturer leaves it behind with new styling statements. I owned a 1994 Lexus SC400 for 16 years and still loved looking at it even in the 16th year, as 'dated' as it was. Technology finally lured me to more performance and interior amenities in the M5, but I still like the old Lexus. I believe the 2013 M5 will last as long in my esteem as a magnificent 4 door sedan, even as BMW changes the shape of the new models over the years.
There is truth to what you say too. I think the F10 styling will last for at least 10 years but probably 15 years before it starts to look dated. Why? Because it's a lot softer than the previous generation Bangle design. When I look at a non-M5 E60 today, I see a design that really does look quite dated to me. Today the E60 chassis is about 11-12 years old (depends on if you count when it was first unveiled to when it actually hit the streets). However the E60 M5 design still looks relevant today, but if and only if it is well maintained. If I see a nice and clean E60 M5 on the road, especially an LCI, I will admire it's beauty, but not so for a 2005 E60 530i. However, I do think that the LCI update on the E60 was much better than the LCI update on the F10. They changed a lot more on the E60 for its LCI. Even so, I can still see an F10 528i looking good in 2025 and 2030. The only thing that really detracts from a Pre-LCI F10 look are the white frosted headlights. That's really it. This is all my opinion.

But back to the CTS-V. The only think that I really like about the V design styling wise is the aggressive looking sideview mirrors. The rest of the car won't age well. The rear bumper sticks out too much a like a Badunkadunk, the high hood line of the V doesn't look great. The front grille is really not bad but not exactly elegant either. The biggest detractor is really just the wheels on the V. With a nice set of aftermarket wheels, the aging of the car might be offset like getting a botox injection. Either way, the 2016 CTS-V won't be a car that a lot of people will still be longing for 10 years from now based on it's looks, but maybe for its performance when 640hp could be had for as little as 25,000 dollars.
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      03-20-2015, 10:17 AM   #184
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I think a clean E39 5 series (M or otherwise) is still classy looking. I too had a Lexus SC - a '96 SC300 with a manual (very rare). At the time it was a head turner and really hot (pearl white), now when I see one it just doesn't quite hold up. But I think they were ahead of their time. I'll always have a soft spot for that car.

Personally, quality, cost and ergonomics aside, I simply do not like Cadillac styling (interior or exterior). Even the new "softer" lines are still too angular. The cars look slab sided with small looking wheels. I don't like the hard lines of the greenhouse nor the vertical design of the front end. Vertically oriented headlights look okay on the Escalade, but completely out of place on a sedan.
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      03-20-2015, 10:29 AM   #185
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I will be more specific.

I believe the styling of the F10 like with the E39 and all previous M5s except the E60 is classically beautiful. This car will look elegant as long as it is on the road. Yes it will look older over time, but it will like old and beautiful.

The Cadillac styling is ugly and it will always be ugly, and so it now looks dated and ugly. It will be hard to appreciate this design new or old.
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      03-20-2015, 07:10 PM   #186
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I've sat in the 2016 CTS-V. I wouldn't exactly say that they unf$%ked the interior, but it's definitely better than the previous generation V.

I decided upon my analogy a long time ago. If both cars were military bombers, the BMW M5, would be the B-2 Stealth Bomber,... Where as the 2016 CTS-V is more the B-52 type of bomber...
I forgot when I even posted this, lol. I still don't mind the exterior of the new V, I get that others do. Agree on the wheels, bumper, etc... And it's a shape that is dated already, but I can get past it. I'll only keep it for a couple years. The interior of the M5 is special. The cheap looking, feeling interiors are frankly my biggest gripe with GM and the other US cars. I'm coming from an E92 M and didn't have full leather, but the interior was still a few steps up, but nothing like the M5 and M6 interiors with full leather. Nice analogies too, made me chuckle.
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      03-21-2015, 12:22 PM   #187
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We all know the M5's real power numbers and performance figures...GM willingly submits to SAE certifications of their power figures, hence the cars make what they say they make. The M5 is massively under-rated and we all know this.

The weight is a non-issue, at most a 150-175 pound weight advantage in real life, hardly something that you'll feel if the weight distribution is the the same.

Someone mentioned the previous generation CTS-V interior was "the best they were ever in" and I nearly laughed out loud...I've sat in multiple second-gen Vs and they had terrible interiors. Terrible, terrible leather that wears quickly. Nasty, cheap-looking and creaky plastics everywhere. The new one looks better but like was said above, still nowhere near what an M5 is at with the Exec package, especially not with full leather. Also, the CUE UI is just god awful, it looks like the 90s. iDrive continues to be the sharpest infotainment UI in the business to my eyes.

Powertrain should be epic, and I'm sure it will handle well. But, we all know that the F10 M5 is almost on its way out, and the majority of this car's life it will have to compete with the G80 M5, which might be as light as 3900 pounds, and make close to 700 hp in the real world. Also, given the EUR-USD action lately, I don't see the next M5 getting more expensive, maybe even dropping a bit.

Price is a solid deal overall, and I do really like the exterior. However, the M5 will still be the better all-around car and I think it's worth the extra money. For some, it's not. And that's fine too.
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      03-21-2015, 01:30 PM   #188
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LOL at the subjective dated comments. Some think your/my M5 is dated. Do I care? Nope.

If you want, "non dated" then get an i8.
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