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      01-19-2015, 08:48 AM   #23
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I would wait to see results but I have faith in AMS to do it right. Also opens the door to other tuners as well.
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      01-19-2015, 08:52 AM   #24
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Humm I wanna wait and have the guinea pig report back with some real world driving....without warranty is kinda nerve wrecking.....
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      01-19-2015, 09:01 AM   #25
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>alternatives offered by cheap, low quality piggy back controllers.

#shotsfired

seriously wouldn't throw stones until your product is on the same planet even...

and those 'cheap low quailty piggy back controllers' work WITH a flash tune even.

Quote:
Originally Posted by exmowner View Post
Bronch I understand you skeptical about sending you ecu's in but no need to be dramatic. I can imagine a three to four day turnaround before your back on the road. So your saying you'd rather a piggy back tune that's harder on your engine but with a warranty then a true ecu flash that comes from a company like Ams?

At a 3k price tag this is a gift, we as f10 owners are luck iND got ams to work on the platform. Be positive and live a little.
harder on your engine?

come on, please don't confuse stupid people, boost is boost, AFR's are AFR's, timing is timing, etc. etc.

regardless of what you think of a piggyback, the companies that make them have a much stronger reputation than AMS for this platform.

besides, $3k is just 'M tax', RnD? lol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crashnbrn5 View Post
Its today's technological car world, a re flash of the ECU will always triumph over a piggy back unit. 99% of enthusiasts should agree here. In a small analogy. On my 328i e90, (rwd) I had "active autowerks" reflash the entire ECU, boosting power Almost 25hp from an NA engine mind you. NO intake, exhaust, turbos, etc. But the entire driving experience was different from that one reflash, something a piggy back can't do. By a long shot. I Applaud AMS and IND here. They are def on to something. One day I would like to see a tune as simple as APR for the Audi's, which is straight to the OBDII.
apples to oranges

most of the power gains with an NA motor is in timing as well as for these cars, VANOS, which a piggy doesn't have much/any control over

for boosted cars, the difference is a lot lower piggy:flash, considering most of the power comes from boost and AFR, VANOS effects spool more than power in an optimisation sense, and while yeah, more timing will give you more power with enough octane, you can easily max it out on 91, and even moderate E85 blends that will tax your fuel system anyway.

APR/Audi is totally different, whenever a new car comes out they can flash it pretty much straight away, since their communication system/ECU security hasn't changed in a decade lol

Last edited by flinchy; 01-19-2015 at 09:07 AM..
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      01-19-2015, 09:12 AM   #26
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3k is still kinda steep! should be around 1-2k at max
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      01-19-2015, 09:38 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AstonMartian777 View Post
Yeah what else do you want a fkn time machine ? Go get a jb4 and enjoy yourself
I already have the Dinantronics would have loved to jb4 but for me the 100 more hp than I already got on top of the dinan piggy by being able to add catless dps and meth just isn't worth the risk reward maybe one day ill be able to afford the risk...
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      01-19-2015, 09:45 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bronch
Quote:
Originally Posted by exmowner View Post
Bronch I understand you skeptical about sending you ecu's in but no need to be dramatic. I can imagine a three to four day turnaround before your back on the road. So your saying you'd rather a piggy back tune that's harder on your engine but with a warranty then a true ecu flash that comes from a company like Ams?

At a 3k price tag this is a gift, we as f10 owners are luck iND got ams to work on the platform. Be positive and live a little.
Dramatic, what are you talking about? Whatever. I don't have the expertise to remove the ECU then wait for the mail and AMS to do their thing and wait for ground shipping again. 4 days? Come on. And then expect BMW to honor the warranty if something goes awry on your your new 100HP addition? So, a piggy back tune is "harder" on your engine? Please post some evidence.
On track my m6 cp went into limp mode from high exhaust gas temps ( running too lean for sustained hard use ) with the BMS piggyback . I'd say it was harder on my motor . A real tune is definitely the better way to go, whether it's "worth " 3k is an entirely different discussion .
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      01-19-2015, 09:47 AM   #29
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Awesome work guys!
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      01-19-2015, 10:04 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wisesoul View Post
While 3,000 seems steep, we have to factor in the R&D these guys have put in. Time ain't cheap, and these guys have definitely struck down the Goliath of ECUs. Plus there are pretty much no after market tunes (I know of) that offer powertrain warranties. For example, a GIAC tune for a 991 Turbo costs about the same or more, but offers no warranty. Instead, there is a disclaimer

"Improving the performance of an engine by altering the engine's computer software may cause the engine to "work harder" and could result in damage to the car. The user assumes these risks."

Same story here. I doubt there are full bolt on GTRs and Turbos sporting some type of warranty. I'll be damned if they do though lol
I'd just like to point out that AMS were NOT the ones to "crack" this ECU and likely did not have to fund the R&D for this. They (not so) simply obtained the tools to offer the tunes. They might even be sending them out to Europe; I'm not sure.

As far as the amount of actual work they contributed, it's questionable. I remember reading somewhere that they were simply a US outlet for a tuner that is overseas.

EDIT: I'd like to add that it's also possible that they're sending them out to be unlocked then doing the tuning themselves.

I think $3000 is a little steep for a tune. That's the luxury car tax at it's finest.

But economics tells me that if people will pay it, then it's worth it.

I bet prices come down once the tools become more widespread.

Last edited by Unklejoe; 01-19-2015 at 10:22 AM..
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      01-19-2015, 10:11 AM   #31
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Not for an M6 Yet, huh............................................
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      01-19-2015, 10:15 AM   #32
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That is so funny how many new "users" chimed in LOL , piggybacks have nothing but issues, there's always issues with piggy back, ask anyone who had both, and you will get the same answer, it doesn't control "Timing is Timing ? LOL it doesn't even control timing.
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      01-19-2015, 10:16 AM   #33
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I could be wrong, but here's what I read on another thread.

Either way, it's good to see progress.

See below:

Quote:
Originally Posted by AurélienFxx View Post
That's very simple :

Step 1:

Your local tuner should be equiped with one of the following boot programming tool :

- CMDFlash
- EVC BSL100
- ByteShooter

Step 2:

Your tuner need to send an email or give a phone call to AMS asking for an ECU unlock for BMW Fxx.
AMS collect ECU for us and send them to us for unlocking in europe.
When it's done, we send them ecu back with a password file allowing ecu unlock !
( This will be done in USA later in the year, as previously said )

Step 3:

Now you have your ecu back and that magic password file. Your tuner simply drag and drop the password file in one of the tool from step 1 and tadam : he now have full access to the ecu memory !



Not anymore.

Here is a list of Exx and Fxx we are able to unlock :

Diesel :

EDC17C41 HW03
EDC17CP45 HW02
EDC17C50 HW01 & HW02
EDC17C56
EDC17CP49

To make things simple -> EVERY Fxx diesel.

Gasoline :

MEVD1725 (N13 BMW and mini !)

MEVD1724 (N20)
MEVD1729 (N20)
MEVD172P (N20)

MEVD1726 (N55 Exx & Fxx)
MEVD172S (N55 Fxx)
MEVD172G (N55 Fxx)

MEVD1728 (N63 & S63 including M5/M6)

More controllers coming, we discover new one all the time.
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      01-19-2015, 10:24 AM   #34
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I'd rather have a true flash than a piggy back. My only hesitation is how much experience AMS has with BMWs to ensure reliability. When I think if AMS, I think of GTRs, Evos, and Scooby doos. Not so much with BMW but we can use more developers for our parts. Helps brings pricing down.
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      01-19-2015, 10:29 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexandertg21 View Post
I'd rather have a true flash than a piggy back. My only hesitation is how much experience AMS has with BMWs to ensure reliability. When I think if AMS, I think of GTRs, Evos, and Scooby doos. Not so much with BMW but we can use more developers for our parts. Helps brings pricing down.
AMS is probably one of the best shops in the United States and has a reputation to uphold. I'm sure they wouldn't release a tune under their name if it was going to cause problems.

In the end, all gas engines work on pretty much the same fundamentals. It's just a matter of finding out the MBT sweet spot and such. There's nothing really "special" about the BMW motor that makes the process any different.

Once the load system of the ECU is understood, it should be like any other car.
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      01-19-2015, 10:54 AM   #36
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I wish I could get 100 HP in my E90 M for 3K
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      01-19-2015, 11:00 AM   #37
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On another hand Eurocharged has a new tune also making 650whp, check on another forum
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      01-19-2015, 11:02 AM   #38
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How are fuel trims scaled on this vehicle? Also, anything using e85?
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      01-19-2015, 11:12 AM   #39
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Finally! ! So glad!! Well done ams!!! Cant wait to have mine done !!
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      01-19-2015, 11:28 AM   #40
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How is this "ECU Flash" any different from BMS JB4, ECU Tunning, and Dinan?

They all fairly do the same thing by raising PSI boost to produce more horsepower.

Unless there is a full actual ECU Tune I don't justify paying anything more than what JB4 offers.

I am very content with my 667 rwhp 2014 ///M6 Competition Package with RPI downpipes, custom race exhaust, BMS JB4, and VP Fuel MS109 octane.

Till I see another new ///M Car beat me at Shift S3ctor or see videos of taking on an Mclaren MP4-12C like I have by 3-4 cars, I stand strong with my setup.

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      01-19-2015, 11:58 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeyLeeBMW View Post
How is this "ECU Flash" any different from BMS JB4, ECU Tunning, and Dinan?

They all fairly do the same thing by raising PSI boost to produce more horsepower.

Unless there is a full actual ECU Tune I don't justify paying anything more than what JB4 offers.

I am very content with my 667 rwhp 2014 ///M6 Competition Package with RPI downpipes, custom race exhaust, BMS JB4, and VP Fuel MS109 octane.

Till I see another new ///M Car beat me at Shift S3ctor or see videos of taking on an Mclaren MP4-12C like I have by 3-4 cars, I stand strong with my setup.
You seem to be confused. This is a "full actual ECU tune."
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      01-19-2015, 01:01 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentAttack View Post
I wish I could get 100 HP in my E90 M for 3K
I agree. People are going to b***h about everything. 3k for 100hp is cheap hp.
I bet you they were not b***g when dinan was charging 25k for stroker motor producing 105hp
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      01-19-2015, 01:02 PM   #43
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I don't have an M5, so no skin in the game, but I'd just like to address the warranty concerns.

1. Aftermarket parts do not void your BMW's warranty. The only time they cause a problem is if an aftermarket part is the cause of whatever problem you're addressing at the dealer. Then you're SOL unless you have a very good relationship with your dealer.

2. This is AMS and iND. They are both outstanding companies that go out of there way to make their customers happy. I'm certain they'll go above and beyond working with their customers to address any problems that could arise.

But remember, it's all part of the risk modifying cars. If you don't want the risk, you have to buy a car that has more power you're already satisfied with. Or you find a dealer with a Dinan agreement; though I'm sorry, but I have a low opinion of the vast majority of Dinan products.

Anyway, I'm sure the price may come down a bit when they no longer have to send the DME to Europe to have it unlocked. The first adopters usually have to pay a bit of a premium and work out the kinks of the whole process.
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      01-19-2015, 01:04 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MpowerMike View Post
3k is still kinda steep! should be around 1-2k at max
3k is a bargain for 100hp. I wished we had NA cars again. How much hp can you get for 3k on NA engine again? turbo engines has spoiled everyone to a point where 100hp should be 1k now. Can you imagine a vendor offering 100hp for 3k for E90x.. think about that for a minute. Dinan exhaust for E90x cost as much as this tune..and how much hp did you get with Dinan exhaust? this is to put things into perspective for people crying about 3k for 100hp.

Seriously people.. IF vendor sold tune for 1k, people will still complain it should be $500. 3k for 100hp tune is too steep? Just wow..
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Last edited by Falcao; 01-19-2015 at 01:12 PM..
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