Definative Methanol Injection Power Increase

[financenick]

Hi,

Does anyone have raw data on 'before and after' power figures for their meth upgrades. Dyno'd with and without meth on..

-Interested to know exactly what power can be achieved with just this one mod

[ur20v]

With just water/meth or even straight meth you won't gin much if anything out of the stock set up, you need a JB4 or other piggy or a flash tune.

With a tune, for most it just gives some head room on fueling and ignition, they won't run past 23psi and the clutch limits which I think is about <650whp. Its not strictly needed at this level and if you have a CP equiped car theres easliy engough head room at this level.

100% meth on 98RON and some SSP cluch packs and you can push to max the standard turbos at 750+ whp safely.

Water meth does other jobs, smoothes out throttle response and engine feel, cleans the inlet ports and pistons (these engine may suffer carbon build up - just haven't seen any examples unlike other direct injection BMW engines) plus the safe guard from knock etc.

If you push your fuel demand and rely on meth with out proper control, monitoring and safety features you can melt your engine.

I am at 23psi on BMS JB4 running twin #4 jets on a 50/50 mix set to flow at 12psi it runs slightly rich but as we are in our summer with temps well over 35-45'C regularly I am happy to keep the IAT and other engine temps well in check.

[financenick]

Thanks for this, i heard once before that meth wont make much difference without a piggy or flash tune, but to me that just doesn't seem correct (not to disrespect your advise or opinion) but the simplicity of a flash cant directly impact on the boost temps being significantly reduced in both scenarios, a tune only raises the boost by a few psi and adjusts timing and fuel slightly.

The BIG difference is the boost temps reduce flashed or not

[ur20v]

BUT the S63 is so well designed and tuned it isn't pushing temps etc so its not pulling timing and has so much head room from the intercoolers, ignition and fuel system for the meth to do much if anything other than a couple of hp and smooth things, a tune and piggy pushing boost is another thing!

I would bet hard against any hp or torque benefit - note I acknowledge the other benefits of water meth...

[financenick]

most report 100 bhp increase, hoping anyone with raw stats can comment

[KMORGSM5]

There are some varying factors, 100% meth vs 50/50, tune, etc...

[financenick]

Ok say 50/50 meth

[KMORGSM5]

my car is getting meth kit installed right now with JB4 BCM and was told to expect around 50whp gain with 50/50. Unfortunately i don't have dyne numbers or anyway to prove it.

[ur20v]

With out adding something i.e boost to increase the amount of air available, meth injection just won't do anything other than give you a rich mixture, you NEED to add a piggy or tune of some sort period.

[financenick]

Buddy, your statement just does not make sense, hate to say it but your wrong. The big picture is to ultimately cool the boost and up the octane, a tune slightly improves fuel/timing and adds another 3 psi (that's all) so why would it only produce extra power from the meth when its running an extra 3psi - lol

Standard they run roughly 20psi, tune or piggy runs 23psi the water/meth will significantly cool both scenarios causing very similar power increases for the both.

Your getting confused with having a tune "specifically" for meth, which im not having as im happy to just let the ecu work out the best course of action, and dont want to tune just for meth then run dry of meth one day on full boost causing engine failure.

[Msizzle]

Originally Posted by financenick

Buddy, your statement just does not make sense, hate to say it but your wrong. The big picture is to ultimately cool the boost and up the octane, a tune slightly improves fuel/timing and adds another 3 psi (that's all) so why would it only produce extra power from the meth when its running an extra 3psi - lol

Standard they run roughly 20psi, tune or piggy runs 23psi the water/meth will significantly cool both scenarios causing very similar power increases for the both.

Your getting confused with having a tune "specifically" for meth, which im not having as im happy to just let the ecu work out the best course of action, and dont want to tune just for meth then run dry of meth one day on full boost causing engine failure.

My friend your information is way off, our cars run about 16psi stock, yes the car will go up to 22psi if the ecu senses the preset torque demands aren't being met, but 16psi will generally meet that no problem so that is what the car makes stock. The meth is necessary at higher boost levels because we max out the fuel trims and the car can't meet the fuel demand on its own, in addition to that the meth raises the octane which becomes necessary as you add boost. 19psi the car doesnt need meth but once you start getting passed 22with a piggy back you need meth. On a stock tune 16psi you will have too much fuel in the combustion chamber and therefore the car will be very rich, yes you will have more octane but the car isn't pulling timing under any normal situations so the additional octane won't do much of anything. if you put race gas in a honda civic it won't all of a sudden get much more powerful, maybe under 5hp

[financenick]

1) It will still make extra power from the cooling, which is my original point !! its not just about the octane
2) Show me proof the injectors and fuel pump max out after a remap (this is a crazy claim)
3) We're not talking about a Civic, or just increasing octane

Just FYI - The new M4 GTS just released has water injection from the factory and makes an additional 80 BHP from the cooling

[Msizzle]

Originally Posted by financenick

1) It will still make extra power from the cooling, which is my original point !! its not just about the octane
2) Show me proof the injectors and fuel pump max out after a remap (this is a crazy claim)
3) We're not talking about a Civic, or just increasing octane

Just FYI - The new M4 GTS just released has water injection from the factory and makes an additional 80 BHP from the cooling

1) yes you will get a little power just for cooling it, but not much and def not worth a meth kit at stock boost levels just for that.
2) are you kidding me?? look at a log of a non competition car at 22psi with a piggy back, the fuel trims will be maxed. Im not sure if you are new to this but but maxing the injectors is different from maxing the fuel trims. the ecu has a window of how much or how little fuel it will pump, we are maxing out that window and thats why we supplement it with meth. When you get a tune you can widen that window, thats why i specified a piggy at 22psi NOT a tune at 22psi. The hardware eventually gets maxed out as well but way more boost

[ur20v]

You just can;t help some people, come back when you have proved yourself wrong and add a tune to your meth set up.

I suspect a troll....

[ur20v]

P.S Msizzle is spot on and repeating what I have said.

You will actual loose power by running extra rich from Meth and probably get missfires from sooting or flooding the plugs, so don't cry because we told you.

[apexlocator]

Originally Posted by financenick

1) It will still make extra power from the cooling, which is my original point !! its not just about the octane
2) Show me proof the injectors and fuel pump max out after a remap (this is a crazy claim)
3) We're not talking about a Civic, or just increasing octane

Just FYI - The new M4 GTS just released has water injection from the factory and makes an additional 80 BHP from the cooling

I'm sure BMW didn't just slap on a water injection kit and not tune the car for its benefits.

[ur20v]

^^^ the adder is boost, the water injection is for IAT's and ign timing head room and marketing

[Msizzle]

Originally Posted by ur20v

You just can;t help some people, come back when you have proved yourself wrong and add a tune to your meth set up.

I suspect a troll....

i agree, must be a troll

[BPMSport]

Meth makes a huge difference particularly on tuned cars with raised boost pressure, or on consistent back to back runs without cooldown time. The higher the boost the more inconsistent the car will be run after run (act of compressing air raises temperatures, which in turn heat up the heat exchangers and rob power). Also will make a sizable difference on extended runs with long boost periods, i.e 5th and 6th gear pulls.

On the airstrip I pulled on a JB4 car w/ meth with our Stage I tune by about 1.5-2 cars. By the end of the day my car was so hot, that he took me by .5-1 car. My intake temps were through the roof, while his were kept in check w/ meth.

[ur20v]

Mike you are talk of extremes not normal use. Plus you won't make MORE power, you are talking about the same positives I posted ealier i.e maintaining IATs, intercooler temps and stopping ignition pulls but the ecu won't add more ignition or torque just because of adding some meth- you could very likely do all these advantages with just water.

Boost is key....

[BPMSport]

Originally Posted by ur20v

Mike you are talk of extremes not normal use. Plus you won't make MORE power, you are talking about the same positives I posted ealier i.e maintaining IATs, intercooler temps and stopping ignition pulls but the ecu won't add more ignition or torque just because of adding some meth- you could very likely do all these advantages with just water.

Boost is key....

Yes, the ECU will add more ignition to a certain point.. if you're running high octane fuel, probably won't add any if at all - if running 91 it certainly will. I'm not referring to meth specifically - I'm referring to anything that cools the intake charge.

[ur20v]

We are on the same page, meth/water injection won't add power but my stop you losing power from cooking the engine or poor fuel quality.