Has the baton been passed?

[gmfive]

Looking at the overall lineup and the future direction, I think the baton has been passed somewhat like this:
1. MB is the new Honda (overall performance focus)
2. Audi is the new Nissan (middle ground between performance & looks)
3. BMW is the new Toyota (mostly just safe designs & boring cars)

Does seem like AMG, RS, //M compare similarly.

Honda, Nissan, Toyota feel like Chevy, Ford, Chrysler. Tesla is in a weird spot and think they're changing the world; seems they might just get acquired by someone like BMW or Porsche.

Thoughts?

[bodonx]

I thought Nissan is the performance focus given 370z and GT-R.

Honda doesn't even have RWD platform anymore since S2000.

[elitex]

Originally Posted by bodonx

I thought Nissan is the performance focus given 370z and GT-R.

Honda doesn't even have RWD platform anymore since S2000.

yep

[gmfive]

We can switch Honda and Nissan, np

[SteveC]

Originally Posted by gmfive

Looking at the overall lineup and the future direction, I think the baton has been passed somewhat like this:
1. MB is the new Honda (overall performance focus)
2. Audi is the new Nissan (middle ground between performance & looks)
3. BMW is the new Toyota (mostly just safe designs & boring cars)

Does seem like AMG, RS, //M compare similarly.

Honda, Nissan, Toyota feel like Chevy, Ford, Chrysler. Tesla is in a weird spot and think they're changing the world; seems they might just get acquired by someone like BMW or Porsche.

Thoughts?

Within Europe, Honda, Nissan and Toyota have never been anything like the equivalent of MB, OOOO or BMW and have never occupied clear well differentiated slots in the market so its difficult to see how the German and Japanese brands equate in any manner. People aspire to own the German brands, they are so called status symbols, items of desire, offer a wide, well differentiated range of products. Their showrooms are standardized around the high quality the brands aspire to. In Europe Japanese cars are mainly seen as high quality, cheaper to run utility brands that address a very different market and barely compete

[M5Beast_NYC]

I somewhat feel the same way. With the new design improvement on the MB, I might considering getting into an MB, as a second car of course : )

[stealth.pilot]

Originally Posted by gmfive

Looking at the overall lineup and the future direction, I think the baton has been passed somewhat like this:
1. MB is the new Honda (overall performance focus)
2. Audi is the new Nissan (middle ground between performance & looks)
3. BMW is the new Toyota (mostly just safe designs & boring cars)

Does seem like AMG, RS, //M compare similarly.

Honda, Nissan, Toyota feel like Chevy, Ford, Chrysler. Tesla is in a weird spot and think they're changing the world; seems they might just get acquired by someone like BMW or Porsche.

Thoughts?

Toyota is affordable reliable cars for people of all income brackets. I don't see how BMW will ever offer that.

I think all three retain their same old identities:
- Mercedes - Luxury leader
- BMW - Sport Luxury leader
- Audi - Sport luxury value option

Only difference is BMW was beating Mercedes all round with the F series cars, and if the G12 7 is anything to go by, then Mercedes is going to be beating BMW in a substantial way. Plus AMG is on a better trajectory to M right now too.

So if anything the baton is about to pass from BMW to Mercedes.

[gmfive]

Originally Posted by SteveC

Within Europe, Honda, Nissan and Toyota have never been anything like the equivalent of MB, OOOO or BMW and have never occupied clear well differentiated slots in the market so its difficult to see how the German and Japanese brands equate in any manner. People aspire to own the German brands, they are so called status symbols, items of desire, offer a wide, well differentiated range of products. Their showrooms are standardized around the high quality the brands aspire to. In Europe Japanese cars are mainly seen as high quality, cheaper to run utility brands that address a very different market and barely compete

Agree, my analogy is definitely more suited to the US/Canada. But I'm not too sure about the German brands being "status symbols, items of desire". The dealerships are not what they used to be - the clientele looking for an X1 is quite different from someone shopping for an M5. Quite a few ppl have shared the perspective that it now feels quite strange to go to the dealership to go look at a high-end //M model sitting on the same floor when a bunch of other buyers are busy checking out the X1 or the 2 series.

[gmfive]

Originally Posted by stealth.pilot

Toyota is affordable reliable cars for people of all income brackets. I don't see how BMW will ever offer that.

I think all three retain their same old identities:
- Mercedes - Luxury leader
- BMW - Sport Luxury leader
- Audi - Sport luxury value option

Only difference is BMW was beating Mercedes all round with the F series cars, and if the G12 7 is anything to go by, then Mercedes is going to be beating BMW in a substantial way. Plus AMG is on a better trajectory to M right now too.

So if anything the baton is about to pass from BMW to Mercedes.

I think the time when the German Big 3 decided to enter the value segment with offerings like the GLA, 1/2 series, X1/X3, A3, etc, quite a lot changed. Also, with the price and lease numbers of the entry-level German cars better than or at par with Acura, Lexus, Infiniti, those 3 took a huge hit. So, in a way, they really are moving downwards and becoming more accessible/affordable and also more reliable.

As far as the "Sport" goes, I'd start with Porsche. It is sad but true. Many of us with the current M5/M6 are considering the p-car as their next performance whip.

This is undoubtedly true: "AMG is on a better trajectory to M right now".