The Force was too strong...slipped to the Dark Side

[Hothonda]

Just turned 7K miles (7 mo) w/-0- problems. Car has factory "sport" PSAM (SPASM) option ($890) which lowers car 20MM compared to base 991.

Did like BMW's 4 year n/c service although I only used it once ha! Porsche
not so $$ friendly.

[Vic55]

coldlist your car looks amazing with the drop--- its just a fucking great car...

mainly you got it right with your short test drive: balance, throttle, rpms, and sound!!!!

[ColdList]

Originally Posted by aculeg87

After seeing your post it motivated me to go to the dealer on Friday. I drove a 991S in manual. It was Rhodium but I could have swore I saw a brownish flake in the paint which I didn't like. In your pics it looks closer to silverstone which is beautiful. If I got one lowering is a must. Is it a very involved install?

So after I drove the car (which was brief) it really got me thinking. However I am torn. So I posted what I will paste below on Rennlist to get more opinion and feedback. You are 100% correct in how the M experience has changed. I love my car for what it is, but it still leaves me unsatisfied and disconnected. If you feel like reading you'll see where I'm at, or be able to offer advise as well. Thank you and best of luck with her, it truly is beautiful.

As Vic says, mainly nailed this all right on the head with his assessment. The car is just amazing-nothing less. Henry and I (Bimmer6) spent a lot of time bs-ing today at C&O and we pretty much share all the same sentiments. We both have M cars too and we both like them too. You just can't really compare the driving experiences. Totally different cars.

Rhodium has ZERO brown flake. You are absolutely correct that it has more of a Silverstone look with a very slight blue hue, albeit quite a bit less blue than Silverstone. It is gorgeous! The Platinum Silver Metallic is the color that it has replaced (I think for 2014) and it definitely has the brownish hue.

Originally Posted by Vic55

coldlist your car looks amazing with the drop--- its just a fucking great car...

mainly you got it right with your short test drive: balance, throttle, rpms, and sound!!!!

Thanks Vic! And once again, thanks for the great advice. H&R did the trick so perfectly!

Mainly sure did sum it up well! Henry and I took ours for a very spirited run after C&O today and wow did I fall even deeper in love with these cars! Both of those engines roaring at high revs-me hearing his from behind and hearing mine behind me simultaneously singing-words can't begin to describe the thrill! Well, two words could-as in "oh sh**!" when we saw the nice police officer with his laser gun waiting on the side of the highway! At least we would have shared a cell and could have talked more about the P cars!-lol!

[Bimmer6]

Originally Posted by ColdList

As Vic says, mainly nailed this all right on the head with his assessment. The car is just amazing-nothing less. Henry and I (Bimmer6) spent a lot of time bs-ing today at C&O and we pretty much share all the same sentiments. We both have M cars too and we both like them too. You just can't really compare the driving experiences. Totally different cars.

Rhodium has ZERO brown flake. You are absolutely correct that it has more of a Silverstone look with a very slight blue hue, albeit quite a bit less blue than Silverstone. It is gorgeous! The Platinum Silver Metallic is the color that it has replaced (I think for 2014) and it definitely has the brownish hue.



Thanks Vic! And once again, thanks for the great advice. H&R did the trick so perfectly!

Mainly sure did sum it up well! Henry and I took ours for a very spirited run after C&O today and wow did I fall even deeper in love with these cars! Both of those engines roaring at high revs-me hearing his from behind and hearing mine behind me simultaneously singing-words can't begin to describe the thrill! Well, two words could-as in "oh sh**!" when we saw the nice police officer with his laser gun waiting on the side of the highway! At least we would have shared a cell and could have talked more about the P cars!-lol!

He's being nice we were close to going to jail(: my detector did go off, and I was the dumb sab in the front going over 110. Mike your car is hot, and the 991's parked side by side did steel the attention. Be safebout there!

[ColdList]

Originally Posted by Bimmer6

He's being nice we were close to going to jail(: my detector did go off, and I was the dumb sab in the front going over 110. Mike your car is hot, and the 991's parked side by side did steel the attention. Be safebout there!

And you are being conservative. 110-lol!

Here's the shot of these two sweet 991s side by side! Man that blue is hot! I loved it in the pics but in person-wow! Absolutely a head turner!

[ColdList]

Originally Posted by Ftc120

This whole Porsche thing reminds me of when the zo6 vette first came out, everybody had to have one.

Except that the Porsche has been out for a lifetime.

[ColdList]

Originally Posted by Ftc120

To me with a M car it is about the driving experience, not about how fast your 0-60 time is because the car is doing it for you......

I still say there's nothing like a 4300 pound 4 door sedan in a six speed manual with 560 hp/500 ft. Lbs. of torque that can still do 4.1 seconds to 60

Hmmmm....

Not beating up the M cars btw. I have an F12 M6 cab in the garage also. ALL of this is very subjective. Both the M and the P are GREAT cars. As for driver involvement you cannot possibly even compare the two though. The P is a 3100 lb Sports Car and the M is a 4300+ lb GT. Again, both with diversely different qualities. Really not even an apples to bananas comparison.

[Bimmer6]

Are you kidding Corvette was an icon until GM make it look like a Camero! Ferrari is a super car not a daily driver. By the way do have my eyes on a 458. As Mike said we love our M cars, but this conversation started a long tome ago as several members here have both ........so relax big guy(:

[ColdList]

Originally Posted by Ftc120

The corvette is a icon. Been around for a long time. By the way I love your Porsche. But I am a bmw guy, although the new porsche's are very good looking sports cars. Keep in mind everybody here is comparing a two door sports car to a 4300 lbs. four door sports sedan. Compare the Porsche to a Ferrari or corvette.

Agreed on the comparison. I do think it is relevant though because the whole direction BMW has gone with "weight" and luxury vs. performance does have a lot of people shaking their heads and that little voice saying "hhhmmmm".

[ColdList]

Originally Posted by Bimmer6

Are you kidding Corvette was an icon until GM make it look like a Camero!

Yeah, that was the point I was making. The Corvette has changed in appearance so dramatically over the years that comparing the old to new is barely recognizable. A 911 has remained a 911 since its inception. The chassis however continues to evolve without any lack of original character.

[Bimmer6]

Originally Posted by Ftc120

By the way, the corvette is still an icon and always will be.

Ok you win sure(:

[ColdList]

Originally Posted by Ftc120

I did not mean to hurt anybody's feelings. The Porsche is a great two door super sports car ! I just do not think you can compare the two cars while putting down the M 5 , due to lack of driver involvement. The Dct is fun for a while but very quickly becomes boring. The six speed manual keeps your attention and involvement. Exactly why I didn't buy the Dct.

The Porsche really has no relevance to the lack of involvement of the M5. This has been a topic here for quite some time. It has been brought on itself with the weightiness of the car and the steering that has all but eliminated feel for the road. Like I said, I have an F12 M6 cab too so I have the best of both worlds and grateful to have it. Even if I did not have the Porsche I would (and HAVE) called the car "disconnected". I had ordered a a new 2014 F13 Comp Pkg M6 Coupe for myself also after getting the F12 because as I have stated many times, the M6 is "more connected" than the M5, however, you can't really call either of them sporty or connected. They are more muscle than all around performance these days and that is not a secret. For handling and sportiness you go with the M3 and the upcoming M4. For "mash and go" (as Vic would put it) you get the M5. NOTHING wrong with that. Like you said, appreciate it for what it is....let's just not appreciate it for what it's not.

[ColdList]

Originally Posted by Ftc120

Imagine how fast it would be with the same engine at 3900 lbs. ?

But it is not.

[Bimmer6]

Originally Posted by Ftc120

I agree with you. Although I still think it handles like a much smaller car for being 4300 lbs. and the manual changes the driving experience for the better in a fun way, not necessarily a quicker 0-60 time.

Are you kidding have you drove the M5 around the track it's a fight, but it's fun to watch it freaking go. I disagree with Mike as the M5 drives like the M6 with two less doors(: I love my M5 Mike don't be a hater(:

[ColdList]

Originally Posted by Ftc120

I agree with you. Although I still think it handles like a much smaller car for being 4300 lbs. and the manual changes the driving experience for the better in a fun way, not necessarily a quicker 0-60 time.

I don't think it handles like a much smaller car myself. It is heavy and very tail happy.

As far as the manual being more fun, that is very subjective and trust me, I know you are new here and that is NOT a discussion we want to get going on this board!-lol!

Seriously, I think the Ms are fantastic cars. If I didn't we'd be trading the M6 immediately. I do think they are unbeatable for what they are at their price point.

Also, for what it's worth, I am a Corvette fan too. It is an American claim to fame. I really wish that as Henry said, they didn't make it look like a Camaro. Those tail lights on the new Stingray have got to go.

[ColdList]

Originally Posted by Bimmer6

Are you kidding have you drove the M5 around the track it's a fight, but it's fun to watch it freaking go. I disagree with Mike as the M5 drives like the M6 with two less doors(: I love my M5 Mike don't be a hater(:

Yeah yeah, you'll be trading it for a Panamera Turbo in 6 months-lol! (we might too-lol)

[Bimmer6]

Originally Posted by Ftc120

I will be honest I have not driven it at a track yet, although I plan to soon. I believe one of the members posted his Watkins glen experience from back early this summer. It was a very good article. And I have no doubt it's a challenge if you are not used to 4300 lbs. But the Dct should make it easier for you as far as concentrating on braking and turn in's. The member that posted the article earlier this summer did it in a manual.

Yep agree. I have DCT since I drive around town in the M5, and smetimes conference call no fun with a stick. I would say in M school last week drivers loves the DCT over the stick better performance, and paddle shifting allows you to drive the car when needed throwing that weight around. Take it on the track and let me know how you like a stick(: M5 is a keeper in my book, but it's the same size as the 7 series 3 generations ago look it up.

[ColdList]

Originally Posted by Bimmer6

Yep agree. I have DCT since I drive around town in the M5, and smetimes conference call no fun with a stick. I would say in M school last week drivers loves the DCT over the stick better performance, and paddle shifting allows you to drive the car when needed throwing that weight around. Take it on the track and let me know how you like a stick(: M5 is a keeper in my book, but it's the same size as the 7 series 3 generations ago look it up.

And this is my 1000th post-lol!

[Rob///M5]

Originally Posted by aculeg87

After seeing your post it motivated me to go to the dealer on Friday. I drove a 991S in manual. It was Rhodium but I could have swore I saw a brownish flake in the paint which I didn't like. In your pics it looks closer to silverstone which is beautiful. If I got one lowering is a must. Is it a very involved install?

So after I drove the car (which was brief) it really got me thinking. However I am torn. So I posted what I will paste below on Rennlist to get more opinion and feedback. You are 100% correct in how the M experience has changed. I love my car for what it is, but it still leaves me unsatisfied and disconnected. If you feel like reading you'll see where I'm at, or be able to offer advise as well. Thank you and best of luck with her, it truly is beautiful.

Hi everyone,

This is my first post on Rennlist. I am looking for some personal insight into this tough decision. Please know I have googled and read many other threads for this very question and it has been helpful but I am still going back and forth. My intention is to tell you a little about myself so based on your experiences and knowledge you can paint a better picture for me.

It is probable that some business endeavors will be coming to fruition in the next few months that will enable me to make this purchase or lease. I DO NOT need this car, I simply just want it. I am currently in a F10 M5 and I enjoy it thoroughly. The car is great for it's size and what I wanted it for. However, as you know a M5 and a 991S or a GT3 are worlds apart. The M is awesome and fast but it leaves me yearning for a more intimate experience. The M is DCT and I really miss driving manual. Personally I have started to get a little sad that manufacturers are becoming so competitive with their tech that they are taking the visceral experience away from the driver. I personally feel like I am part of the car when I drive a manual. I feel like my hands and feet are connected to the drivetrain. I don't even have to think about it, my hands and feet just move. I know it sounds corny, but I presume many of you know exactly what I mean. With the DCT, I just don't have that connection and I sometimes have to think to myself how many times I have to hit the lever and so on. BUT, don't get me wrong, there are also many other attributes that I enjoy that have come from the innovations that we have today.

So I have my M5 (leased for another 26 months) that I still enjoy for what it is. I have a commuter car that I use for rainy days or what have you. I live in upstate NY. The roads are decent. I pretty much drive locally or back in forth to work which is 20 miles highway. I do not foresee me doing any track driving in the near future. I am 33 years old. Like I said I do not need this car so if I pull the trigger I really have to be certain I'm making the right decision.

I drove a 991S the other day only for about 6 miles. I enjoyed it but I really don't think it was enough driving to really get acquainted with her. From my short drive I thought the steering felt really good. The shifter throw was a bit long. The handling felt awesome and secure. The power was adequate but it would be something I had to get used to cause it comes in so late. I'm used to a different power delivery ( my last few cars: E60 M5, E92 335i tuned, E46 M3). The sound was probably my favorite aspect. It felt as if the exhaust was 3 feet from my right ear. This is key. Sound is a huge part of the experience I am looking for. My M5 is a bit quiet, even with my Meisterschaft exhaust. Turbos just don't sound good. Nothing beats a screaming NA engine.

So my assessment is the 991S is awesome. Many improvements with the new chassis. Almost as good performance wise as the 997.2 GT3. Looks wise, I would have to have the Aerokit pkg if I got a 991S, but the GT3 just looks really bad ass. From what I gathered some guys love their GT3 and others love it too, but complain that it's really rough, or the front lip scrapes, if you don't track it, why get it??? Unfortunately I doubt I'll be able to drive one so how can I personally compare them to make a decision of what will suffice for my needs and dislikes. Given the background of what kind of driver I am, what moves me, and some of my preferences, can anyone shed some light on this? Perhaps navigate me in a direction that based on your personal experiences and ownerships enlighten me to what could work for me.

Thank you very much for your help and feedback.

If you are keeping the M5, then I say go get a 997.2 GT3 in manual. It's raw and fantastic.

The manual in the 991 CS is a seven speed and not as direct/perfect, the steering is electric in the 991 vs the absolute reference hydraulic steering in the 997.

Or just wait for the upcoming 991 GT3 if you don't mind another DCT...it looks to be an epic car.

[Bimmer6]

Originally Posted by ColdList

And this is my 1000th post-lol!

Nice! Man do you sleep. You past me and I was a member last year(:

[Rob///M5]

Originally Posted by Ftc120

Whether I am new here or not is a mute issue, I didn't realize this was like being in the local teamsters/union. To the car being heavy and tail happy that is a matter of opinion and driver ability. Again the M 5 being to heavy or tail happy, well I guess that's subjective. Of course if your driving a smaller lighter car you are going to feel more confident in your driving abilities.

P.S. - I guess in order to offer a honest opinion on this forum in regards to comparing two totally different cars you need to have spent at least $ 300,000.00 in vehicles to be in the club, when you do that you become a car authority and you are allowed to post on this forum.

The word is moot

[Bimmer6]

Originally Posted by Ftc120

Of course they love the Dct better, the car drives them, they don't have to think. To say performance is better ? I guess if you like a computer driving you.

I hope you drive one a track on day as you have no clue on driving. Ferrari, lambo, GT3, MC, ummmmmm all are DCT and great track cars. The 60's have past(: