F90 vs F10 M5, my thoughts

[olis1]

I traded in my 2014 M5 Comp with dinan tune for a 2018 M5 a couple weeks ago. I was very on the fence about pursuing the next M5 so I actually test drove a 2018 M3 CS and M5 back to back.

My thoughts first on my 2014 M5: love the car, pulls like crazy, no traction until 3rd, not as settled in the corners as I'd like. Great looks. This car always felt too fast for the road, too high geared, not engaging enough. Its an amazing car cruising at 80-120 on a winding open highway but never that much fun around town. As the tires would wear out it would get a little scary losing traction in long sweepers in 3rd gear. Too have fun in this car you really need to redline 3rd gear, the only gear that gets traction and that takes you to 107 mph which is crazy fast.

The thing with the 2018 M5 is its like they listened to all my complaints and changed things where they needed to. With the awd they were able to add a gear (8) and gear everything down. 5th gear in this car is like 3rd in the F10. I don't miss the DCT at all, this tranny works great. The surprising thing is the suspension is very tight and the steering in sport plus feels like less angle is required to turn which makes the car feel more agile. I feel way more stable in a turn. I really feel like they've made this car feel smaller. Needless to say, the awd and the closer gears makes the car way more engaging around town, more gear changes etc. The traction off the line of course is amazing. The sound is louder but now you can turn off the open exhaust with a press of a button, the F10 I had the valves wired open for sound. The new M5 is just louder and pops and burbles. The interior is a big improvement as well and the seats are amazing.

I feel like this car is more useable and I will have more fun at lower speeds. Like 0-100 where as the F10 was really useable more in the 60-120 realm. The newer M5 still can feel very relaxed on the highway the the overall feel of the car in comfort modes just feels more mature. The car feels lighter and stiffer in the right places.

I added a racechip piggy back and its even more amazing. The pull thru gears feels magic. Supposedly the car has 750hp at the engine with this $600 piggy back. I don't doubt it the way it feels but I haven't dyno'd the car.

Anyway, just wanted to let you all know my thoughts if anyone is on the fence.

[Bullish657]

Not sure how a torque converter found its way into the M5 - thats a real turn off for me.

[HXS]

OP, is your 2018 M5 a non-comp?

[AlisterB]

Originally Posted by Bullish657

Not sure how a torque converter found its way into the M5 - thats a real turn off for me.

IMO the ZF 8 speed is a great gearbox, and a much better proposition for 'around town' driving which is where most M5s spend their lives.

[Bullish657]

Originally Posted by AlisterB

IMO the ZF 8 speed is a great gearbox, and a much better proposition for 'around town' driving which is where most M5s spend their lives.

You mean you want luxury gear changes, thats not what the M5 is about… go buy a Lexus. Honestly, i would have bought the new M5 by now if it wasn't for the slush box trans. Yes the F10 is clunky sometimes when maneuvering at low speeds, but its still fine around town - manuals are clunky depending on yr clutch control - but they also allow engine braking something a slush box can't do.

[AlisterB]

Originally Posted by Bullish657

You mean you want luxury gear changes, thats not what the M5 is about… go buy a Lexus. Honestly, i would have bought the new M5 by now if it wasn't for the slush box trans. Yes the F10 is clunky sometimes when maneuvering at low speeds, but its still fine around town - manuals are clunky depending on yr clutch control - but they also allow engine braking something a slush box can't do.

Yes, I admit I would rather prioritise smooth and predictable take offs around town and quick transitions from drive to reverse etc in my luxury car (which is what the M5 is, not a race car). The ZF 8 speed delivers all this plus very fast gear changes not dissimilar to the DCT in the F10. To my mind that delivers an improved driving experience in a luxury road going car.

[Bullish657]

Originally Posted by AlisterB

Yes, I admit I would rather prioritise smooth and predictable take offs around town and quick transitions from drive to reverse etc in my luxury car (which is what the M5 is, not a race car). The ZF 8 speed delivers all this plus very fast gear changes not dissimilar to the DCT in the F10. To my mind that delivers an improved driving experience in a luxury road going car.

"Predictable" - my F10 DCT gear changes are extremely rapid and predictable, downshifts for engine braking are also very good - than ain't happening with a slush box auto.

[lucid21]

I don't get it. You seem to be stating that F10 gears are too tall but at the same time complain that it lacked traction under 107 mph, which in itself is a contradiction of sorts. If the gears were shorter, there would be even more torque at the wheels at lower speeds, and even more traction issues (I don't have any traction issues in my F10 other than the ones I create). Then you say like the F90 because it has more (and shorter) gears???

The only way I can make sense of what you are saying is that the F90 has less traction issues and can use the shorter gears. That is probably mainly because it can be AWD. How is it compare to the F10 in RWD mode--I think it has such a mode?

FWIW, I will never buy an automatic M car or any other IC engined sports car without a stick. If I can't get manual, I will buy electric. Taycan comes to mind. My 3 cents...

[olis1]

Originally Posted by HXS

OP, is your 2018 M5 a non-comp?

Yes, its a non comp.

[olis1]

Originally Posted by lucid21

I don't get it. You seem to be stating that F10 gears are too tall but at the same time complain that it lacked traction under 107 mph, which in itself is a contradiction of sorts. If the gears were shorter, there would be even more torque at the wheels at lower speeds, and even more traction issues (I don't have any traction issues in my F10 other than the ones I create). Then you say like the F90 because it has more (and shorter) gears???

The only way I can make sense of what you are saying is that the F90 has less traction issues and can use the shorter gears. That is probably mainly because it can be AWD. How is it compare to the F10 in RWD mode--I think it has such a mode?

FWIW, I will never buy an automatic M car or any other IC engined sports car without a stick. If I can't get manual, I will buy electric. Taycan comes to mind. My 3 cents...

You made sense correctly. I didn't like the f10 tall gears for around town but I agree, they had no choice given the traction issues. I'm just very happy with the combination of the shorter gears, better traction in the F90 is all. I only wrote this because I didn't see a lot of people making this distinction and I thought it was be useful to people considering the change.

Btw, I never plan to drive the F90 in RWD, it forces off traction control which is crazy and almost got me in trouble a few times in my F10. Can you say snap oversteer?

[olis1]

Originally Posted by Bullish657

"Predictable" - my F10 DCT gear changes are extremely rapid and predictable, downshifts for engine braking are also very good - than ain't happening with a slush box auto.

I've had two DCT's before this F90. The tranny is amazing and does a very good job. I use it in manual mode often just as I did in my F10. And of course it sill has engine braking. Why wouldn't it?

[amr_e90]

F90 is better at everything , to whoever tells you a dct is better then a ZF trans likes to pay extra money for no reason when things go wrong . The transmission shifts just as fast and will last longer why wouldn't you like that . Also the gears are not long on the f10 end of 3rd at 100mph is normal on many 7 speed cars . The traction issue yes it's a problem for the f10 hence why awd was introduced and you can still swing the back out with a push of a button . I just recently purchased an 2014 M5 comp with CCBs and im saying this . I can guarantee that whoever has an F10 and can switch to an F90 they are not complaining about these things . I don't have one because I simply can't afford an 80k+ car right now .

[lenabos]

In the UK, you can buy a clean 2013 LCI F10 M5 with 27k miles for £28k. A clean 2018 F90 M5 with 26k miles is £54k.

I bought my F10 M5 over an E63 or an RS6 because it is RWD with an LSD so it'll do skids with ease, but will also be very comfortable and refined driving normal or on long trips. The F90 will do the above not that much better than the F10, but it will cost me £26k more. For my simple needs, i can't justify the jump however i can see the appeal for most people.

[olis1]

Very valid observations. This thread was never meant to bash the F10. I just had heard many talk about how the car was basically the same. It held me off from test driving one and finally did back to back with an M3 CS and loved the new M5. I just thought it might help others in making next decisions for what to buy. Btw, I still feel like the F10 rules the wide open highway more then the F90. The higher gears and slightly softer suspension really works well there.

[Craze]

Ive driven last 3 generations m5
The e60 is a fun car
The f10 with its technology is good but it really needs a tune and exhaust and intakes to wake it up

The f90 i havent spent much time in but really nice interior and tech, very comfortable ride
Fast off the mark but feels a bit flat up top (im used to high hp cars)

[A3ch]

Thanks for the review. The F90 is about the car I would consider getting rid of my F10 fgor but with used car prices still insanely high I'll probably hold on to my F10 for another 2-3 years and revisit "trading up" then