Official: Competition Package for the BMW M5 and BMW M6 (including Gran Coupe)

[stealth.pilot]

Originally Posted by techwhiz

That's why I don't buy first year Anything!

BTW your comment is ironic given your screen name. If you don't buy first year anything, do you buy iPhones a year after they come out to get the S model so when the next new shape is launched, you get to be stuck with the old one for another year?

[dmw16]

Originally Posted by stealth.pilot

You clueless monkey.

On another note, can you remind us about your theory of the world being flat?

It's just my opinion. I think that M as a brand has softened slightly. When I drop your high revving NA motors for turbos that softens things some.

This isn't a turbos-are-bad-and-it's-not-an-M-anymore. This is more that the M5 is meant to be somewhat more comfortable and less some snarling beast.

The E60 was more angry than the F10. This isn't a knock on the F10 (well aside from the engine noise thing which is silly in my opinion) it's just my opinion.

My view differing from your's doesn't make me a clueless monkey. It just means we disagree.

[stealth.pilot]

Originally Posted by dmw16

It's just my opinion. I think that M as a brand has softened slightly. When I drop your high revving NA motors for turbos that softens things some.

This isn't a turbos-are-bad-and-it's-not-an-M-anymore. This is more that the M5 is meant to be somewhat more comfortable and less some snarling beast.

The E60 was more angry than the F10. This isn't a knock on the F10 (well aside from the engine noise thing which is silly in my opinion) it's just my opinion.

My view differing from your's doesn't make me a clueless monkey. It just means we disagree.

If your membership profile is correct - you own neither the E60 M5 nor the F10 M5. I personally have doubt that you have spent any meaningful seat time in either.

This makes you an armchair commentator in my opinion.

Further since I and many others have had both, and put thousands of miles on each model, we would know better than you or the journalists. After 8000 miles in an F10 M5, I would say it is a more visceral sports car than any previous BMW M5.

[Rob///M5]

Originally Posted by dmw16

When I drop your high revving NA motors for turbos that softens things some.

In theory, your opinion seems reasonable. In reality, you're incredibly wrong. Drive these cars on track and then tell me what you think of this "soft" engine.

Agree with Stealth that folks who haven't spent legitimate time in these cars need to stop whining about turbos and active sound. Contribute something with substance from experience.

[dmw16]

You're right that I haven't spent meaningful time in either car. So I'll differ to those who have.

However, I don't agree that the M5 is meant to be a "balls to the wall" sports car with no compromise. It's a fast sedan but makes compromises to find balance and that's not a bad thing.

The M5 seems more of a 911 Turbo than a GT3RS.

[bimmerjph]

Originally Posted by stealth.pilot

After 8000 miles in an F10 M5, I would say it is a more visceral sports car than any previous BMW M5.

Have you driven every previous M5? Because the 3,400 lb and supercar engined E28 M5 begs to differ.

Actually I don't know why I am even asking that. Your going to lie and say you have.

Dude seriously though, if there is one thing I have learned on this forum is that there are many other types of BMW enthusiasts. Each with their own opinion. If you are happy with your car (which you obviously are), thats great, I'm happy for you. But keep in mind others may not share your opinion. And calling them names definitely won't make them see it your way. Now before you furiously pound on your keys to write that you weren't talking too me, and that I have no idea what I am talking about, ect... Take a minute and think about it.

[chong0]

Originally Posted by dmw16

The M5 isn't a hardcore performance animal. It's a civilized car with lots of power but there are compromises. Most M5 buyers expect a comfy ride.

And once they started pumping engine noise thru the speakers the whole notion of some wild beast is gone. The E60 was the last of the animalistic M5's.

having not driven the e60 or the f10 how can you comment on the car being animalistic? my 'comfy noncompetitive' f10 was keeping up with e46s at the track just fine.

i agree the f10 is more refined, but keep your car and driver comments to yourself unless you have something meaningful to say to the rest of us

[dmw16]

Originally Posted by chong0

having not driven the e60 or the f10 how can you comment on the car being animalistic? my 'comfy noncompetitive' f10 was keeping up with e46s at the track just fine.

i agree the f10 is more refined, but keep your car and driver comments to yourself unless you have something meaningful to say to the rest of us

You guys get super defensive for some reason. The f10 M5 is great and I'm sure it can keep up and pass plenty of more "hardcore" cars like an e46 M3. It's got 200hp on it, so I'd hope so.

I'm not saying the M5 isn't competitive or is soft. I'm saying its not a hardcore balls to the wall car. And neither was the e60 and neither was the e46. All M cars are about balance (and as a result compromise) that's what makes them great cars.

We can agree to disagree and that's fine. But just because I haven't driven an f10 doesn't mean my opinion is of no value as it pertains to the nature of M cars.

[Kayani_1]

That is because NSX is super lite weight mid-engine compared to these M6 and M5 like heavy weight cars. The NSX front wheels were not burdened with all the excess weight of the engine. Thus, the front wheels and what they did was more transparent in regards to feed back and feel. I still feel that if it was a hydraulic setup in NSX vs EPS it would have been even more sharper and precise.

Originally Posted by mlhj83

EPS can be excellent, nobody ever complained about the Honda 20+ year old NSX's EPS ever lacking in feel. That said, the F10 M5 has always been hydraulic.

[Oaktree]

Love the wheels and glad to know BMW is still tweaking the car to make it even better. We would be worse off if we had to wait two years for these tweaks.

[stealth.pilot]

Originally Posted by dmw16

But just because I haven't driven an f10 doesn't mean my opinion is of no value as it pertains to the nature of M cars.

Actually it does mean that.

Because you are talking about experiential characteristics of the vehicle - things which are sensed and felt.

You can't comment on that with any more value than a deaf person can come up with a playlist.

[mlhj83]

Originally Posted by Kayani_1

That is because NSX is super lite weight mid-engine compared to these M6 and M5 like heavy weight cars. The NSX front wheels were not burdened with all the excess weight of the engine. Thus, the front wheels and what they did was more transparent in regards to feed back and feel. I still feel that if it was a hydraulic setup in NSX vs EPS it would have been even more sharper and precise.

Weight over front wheels has less influence on steering feel than chassis setup and steering calibration.

[dhirm5]

Originally Posted by stealth.pilot

You can't comment on that with any more value than a deaf person can come up with a playlist.

lol - to be more precise, he can comment, but the comments are worth considerably less than if they'd been based on real world experience and not just what he reads in magazines.

So - are you still going to order a 2014 then stealth? Seems it might be easier just to retrofit the heads/tails. The 10mm drop is hardly worth doing as you could just drop on Eibachs or H&Rs if you haven't already.

Other programming changes also don't seem worth it if you already have and love your 2013.

[georgere]

I'm amazed how marketing department makes M cars "not so cool" unless you get the extras. What is the price we have to pay to get a decent car? Is 60$k for m3 not enough or 100k for m6? Need more?

[stealth.pilot]

Originally Posted by dhirm5

lol - to be more precise, he can comment, but the comments are worth considerably less than if they'd been based on real world experience and not just what he reads in magazines.

So - are you still going to order a 2014 then stealth? Seems it might be easier just to retrofit the heads/tails. The 10mm drop is hardly worth doing as you could just drop on Eibachs or H&Rs if you haven't already.

Other programming changes also don't seem worth it if you already have and love your 2013.

In my case since I'm buying close to ED Invoice, upgrading to a 2014 is a math issue rather than a taste issue. But I'm pretty sure it will be cheaper in the long-run for me to pay the spread to a 2014 than to switch headlights, taillights and steering wheel (probably 10k all in) and keep the car one more year. The biggest barrier seems to be that ED won't be available till September, and I am going to Europe late July/early August.

However I am going to the M Track Day and looking forward to test driving the M GranCoupe. That may be a viable option.

[dhirm5]

Originally Posted by stealth.pilot

However I am going to the M Track Day and looking forward to test driving the M GranCoupe. That may be a viable option.

I just can't get over that character line emphasizing the front rather than rear fender on the 6/6GC, otherwise I'd be looking hard at the M6GC.

I'll be ordering a '14 M5 for September delivery, at very close to dealer invoice. I don't love the new CP wheels, but will likely go CP anyway for the other bits.

Only q I'm struggling with is Imperial Blue vs Sapphire Black. I'm a Carbon Black fan - love it on my 2009, and if they offered it on the new ones that's what I'd be ordering. I think Imperial is just a shade bluer than Carbon, so that over full platinum is likely the way I'll go.

[stealth.pilot]

Originally Posted by dhirm5

I just can't get over that character line emphasizing the front rather than rear fender on the 6/6GC, otherwise I'd be looking hard at the M6GC.

I'll be ordering a '14 M5 for September delivery, at very close to dealer invoice. I don't love the new CP wheels, but will likely go CP anyway for the other bits.

Only q I'm struggling with is Imperial Blue vs Sapphire Black. I'm a Carbon Black fan - love it on my 2009, and if they offered it on the new ones that's what I'd be ordering. I think Imperial is just a shade bluer than Carbon, so that over full platinum is likely the way I'll go.

If you are ordering you can specify the 343M wheel at same price.

I would strongly recommend Imperial Blue. I had it on my 2012 car. It's a fantastic color. Imperial and Carbon are similar, but Carbon has a little bit of yellow in it - it's like a dirty blue, whereas Imperial has more gamma.

I think the level of darkness is similar. You could also consider Azurite Black - that's even closer to Carbon.

[///Michael]

Azurite plus full platinum would be amazing. I am leaning that way for next year, although I'm nervous about the light leather upkeep.

[stealth.pilot]

Originally Posted by ///Michael

Azurite plus full platinum would be amazing. I am leaning that way for next year, although I'm nervous about the light leather upkeep.

Agree. I think that would be stunning.

[Rob///M5]

Originally Posted by dhirm5

I just can't get over that character line emphasizing the front rather than rear fender on the 6/6GC, otherwise I'd be looking hard at the M6GC.

I'll be ordering a '14 M5 for September delivery, at very close to dealer invoice. I don't love the new CP wheels, but will likely go CP anyway for the other bits.

Only q I'm struggling with is Imperial Blue vs Sapphire Black. I'm a Carbon Black fan - love it on my 2009, and if they offered it on the new ones that's what I'd be ordering. I think Imperial is just a shade bluer than Carbon, so that over full platinum is likely the way I'll go.

Azurite is a better looking Carbon. Do that for 1800

[Kayani_1]

I am not so sure what are you trying to get at by chassis setup.

Chassis setup is heavily influenced by Chassis balance. The amount of weight you carry over the front wheels as well as drive wheels that put the power down all can influence greatly the feel of steering a car. It can heavily influence the steering feedback as responses to the steering input by driver are diluted by improper driving dynamics which in turn make the steering feel suffer.

As for software calibration sure it has a lot to do with it. It can improve the feel tremendously but it still can't cover up the inherent flaws. Now this is why a light weight lotus with proper hydraulic steering has even far better steering feel and feedback compared to the proper setup hydraulic feed back Porsche Cayman S the so called steering feel and feedback kingpin.

Originally Posted by mlhj83

Weight over front wheels has less influence on steering feel than chassis setup and steering calibration.

[bufuro]

Love it.. I wish I liked the frozen paint thou..