2013 M5 and M6 Road Testament by DRIVE

[ORIGIN M.]

Guys i speak Russian so i understood what he said 100%.

The translation is off a bit. To be more accurate, he did not drive it 2,500kms its not his M5. I would know because i follow his blog on his website. Plus if you follow his blogs, you would know he is choosing between an M5 f10 and M6 F13.

Plus someone mentioned that the ttv8 is nothing special and that BMW is not moving forward? Lets see, definitely improved from the e60 M5. Defenitly more interesting engine. Really does have Instant torque. Great Transmission. Also has a 0-60 time of 3.7.

Bingo - It clearly says the car went that far, not him. The car was beat on bad, and that is why there is sand under the hood to the extent there is.
Go figure.

[FogCityM3]

Really? Like C&D saying they prefer the old chassis? 335's, as the top of the line 3, are losing their fair share of comparos too.

Originally Posted by Remonster

Unlike the F10, the F30 is a fantastic platform and categorically better than the E90 so we'll see with the new M3 what today's M engineers are capable of.

[mapezzul]

Lot's of uniformed commentary. I am not claiming to know it all or even half of it but to say the S63Tü is not bespoke or even a huge step from the S63 is just nonsense- especially compared to the V10.

The only engines that were ever M only variants from the block up were the S65 and S85, nothing else was- that alone kills the M needs bespoke engines as M was at its best according to the same people that say it is now selling out when they used the basic engine from BMW. Is there another engine in the BMW lineup now that features everything in the S63Tü- NO then it is bespoke.

How can a car that is more luxurious, more comfortable, faster, better handling, more predictable, more efficient and more livable be less of a car than its predecessor? It can't and its not. People that complain about the M5/M6 are not getting what they are. Go drive a Maserati then one of these M cars- the M is better and cheaper. It is not meant to be a competitor to a 911, or an Aventador or whatever unrealistic comparo one can come up with.

I have been the staunchest hater of the E63 M6- it was crap outside the glorious sound of the V10. The F13 rights every wrong and the new engine is a blast and scary. You really need to know what you are doing to drive the new cars at full tilt as they are very forgiving thanks to the advanced chassis and the engineering throughout but there is a point that goes out the window but it happens very quickly.

I can't understand why anyone would rag on Matt Russell. The guy is an enthusiast through and through. Fact is, we M fans are lucky that he is where he is doing what he does. He is the reason for the M5 and in the future the M6 getting a manual- he is the one fighting for products like the 1M and how it was re-optioned. He spends his time racing an E30 and teaching at BMWCCA events. And he is one hell of driver on track although he is way too modest to admit it. I am not being an apologist as he does have a job to do but unlike others he lives what he speaks and he speaks what he knows.

If anything just show some respect for a fellow enthusiast that just happens to have the job most of us dream of.. that and he is a real person.

Flame suit on...

[mapezzul]

Originally Posted by mhabs

Really? Like C&D saying they prefer the old chassis? 335's, as the top of the line 3, are losing their fair share of comparos too.

The new chassis is FAR better and naturally neutral. That is not the steering or the suspension characteristics which are too soft. The rigidity balance and all that are far better in the F30, anyone selling anything else is BSing.

The F30 will be the best chassis M has ever been handed to work with.

[FogCityM3]

Another datapoint just out:

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/bmw/6-s...m6-convertible

[Darthartur]

and another:

http://www.topgear.com/uk/bmw/m6/road-test/driven

[Darthartur]

Originally Posted by mapezzul

Lot's of uniformed commentary. I am not claiming to know it all or even half of it but to say the S63Tü is not bespoke or even a huge step from the S63 is just nonsense- especially compared to the V10.

The only engines that were ever M only variants from the block up were the S65 and S85, nothing else was- that alone kills the M needs bespoke engines as M was at its best according to the same people that say it is now selling out when they used the basic engine from BMW. Is there another engine in the BMW lineup now that features everything in the S63Tü- NO then it is bespoke.

How can a car that is more luxurious, more comfortable, faster, better handling, more predictable, more efficient and more livable be less of a car than its predecessor? It can't and its not. People that complain about the M5/M6 are not getting what they are. Go drive a Maserati then one of these M cars- the M is better and cheaper. It is not meant to be a competitor to a 911, or an Aventador or whatever unrealistic comparo one can come up with.

I have been the staunchest hater of the E63 M6- it was crap outside the glorious sound of the V10. The F13 rights every wrong and the new engine is a blast and scary. You really need to know what you are doing to drive the new cars at full tilt as they are very forgiving thanks to the advanced chassis and the engineering throughout but there is a point that goes out the window but it happens very quickly.

I can't understand why anyone would rag on Matt Russell. The guy is an enthusiast through and through. Fact is, we M fans are lucky that he is where he is doing what he does. He is the reason for the M5 and in the future the M6 getting a manual- he is the one fighting for products like the 1M and how it was re-optioned. He spends his time racing an E30 and teaching at BMWCCA events. And he is one hell of driver on track although he is way too modest to admit it. I am not being an apologist as he does have a job to do but unlike others he lives what he speaks and he speaks what he knows.

If anything just show some respect for a fellow enthusiast that just happens to have the job most of us dream of.. that and he is a real person.

Flame suit on...

all good points, but BMW are not in the vacum. Competition caught up. That is the reason why F10 as a whole, not only M5 is less attractive then ever. And thouse ugly and greedy marketing games making me mad. WAG exploiting BMW greed to the fullest right now.

[OSAB1]

Originally Posted by mapezzul

Lot's of uniformed commentary. I am not claiming to know it all or even half of it but to say the S63Tü is not bespoke or even a huge step from the S63 is just nonsense- especially compared to the V10.

The only engines that were ever M only variants from the block up were the S65 and S85, nothing else was- that alone kills the M needs bespoke engines as M was at its best according to the same people that say it is now selling out when they used the basic engine from BMW. Is there another engine in the BMW lineup now that features everything in the S63Tü- NO then it is bespoke.

How can a car that is more luxurious, more comfortable, faster, better handling, more predictable, more efficient and more livable be less of a car than its predecessor? It can't and its not. People that complain about the M5/M6 are not getting what they are. Go drive a Maserati then one of these M cars- the M is better and cheaper. It is not meant to be a competitor to a 911, or an Aventador or whatever unrealistic comparo one can come up with.

I have been the staunchest hater of the E63 M6- it was crap outside the glorious sound of the V10. The F13 rights every wrong and the new engine is a blast and scary. You really need to know what you are doing to drive the new cars at full tilt as they are very forgiving thanks to the advanced chassis and the engineering throughout but there is a point that goes out the window but it happens very quickly.

I can't understand why anyone would rag on Matt Russell. The guy is an enthusiast through and through. Fact is, we M fans are lucky that he is where he is doing what he does. He is the reason for the M5 and in the future the M6 getting a manual- he is the one fighting for products like the 1M and how it was re-optioned. He spends his time racing an E30 and teaching at BMWCCA events. And he is one hell of driver on track although he is way too modest to admit it. I am not being an apologist as he does have a job to do but unlike others he lives what he speaks and he speaks what he knows.

If anything just show some respect for a fellow enthusiast that just happens to have the job most of us dream of.. that and he is a real person.

Flame suit on...

Agree 100% about Matt. He doesnt just stand in front of cars and pose for pictures like a lot of people out there. He's in it from the grass roots of racing all the way through the ranks. He is the real deal.

[OSAB1]

Reviews mean nothing. Go out and drive the cars to your performance level and see if it suits your needs and desires. How can you tell if a car is good by watching a video or reading an article. If you can exceed the permormance levels that M has achieved with these cars than look for something else, but I highly doubt most will even come close to besting these cars. Dont bash it until you actually drove it. Oh and I know some will say that they dont have access to these cars or tracks. That is bs. Performance center can accomidate anyone who wants to drive the cars in a safe setting on track. Unplug from the net and go out there and drive.

[alexey21]

^+1

[Remonster]

Originally Posted by mapezzul

The new chassis is FAR better and naturally neutral. That is not the steering or the suspension characteristics which are too soft. The rigidity balance and all that are far better in the F30, anyone selling anything else is BSing.

The F30 will be the best chassis M has ever been handed to work with.

As usual, this man knows what he's talking about.

I don't care what magazines say, I had an E90 for three years and now have an F30. Both 328is with similar options (except E90 was 6MT and the F30 is 8AT). There is NO comparison, the F30 is a MUCH better handling car and is also way, way more comfortable. I was genuinely shocked at how good the F30 was the first time I drove it.

[FogCityM3]

Actually consensus opinions with regard to automobiles matters quite a bit in terms of getting closest to the "truth". If every reviewer (including auto magazines, enthusiasts, racing drivers) reaches the same conclusion about the driving experience of a car, the consumer (who is unable to really see the car perform in demanding conditions in a normal test drive and going to a performance center to do a 'correct' test drive is impractical/costly), then following consensus opinion, in addition to their own test drive (which will be very limited in terms of exploring the limits) is an excellent way to arrive at a decision.

Fact is with the new BMWs, not every reviewer opinion (magazine, race drivers or enthusiast) is as corroborate as it once was, and this includes comparison tests with other cars.

I recently had a new loaner 328i (my car was in service) and I didn't feel it was significantly better driving feel wise was vs the prior gen (328i, 335i, 335 is), with one exception, which is ride quality (where I was shocked in how smooth it was). However, in my opinion it came at a cost of "road feeling", overall size/tossability, handling feel and the turbo charged engine/efficient dynamics definitely made you feel much more isolated from the drivetrain, which may be a good thing for a lot of people (and consensus opinion on the ride quality has been spot on with this with little/no dissenting opinion). But in terms of feeling connected to the road, I can totally see what the naysayers are talking about and why they exist currently vs before (where they were in a very small minority). I would personally prefer my old 2003 330i over this new gen in terms of driver feel (even giving up ride quality), but that is only one opinion. BTW, E46 and E39 consensus opinions were virtually universal on being 'best in class' and BMWs won nearly every car comparo (vs. about 50%-60% today for the new BMWs) and so many enthusiasts still love these old gens. That fact has to mean something.

Originally Posted by Remonster

As usual, this man knows what he's talking about.

I don't care what magazines say, I had an E90 for three years and now have an F30. Both 328is with similar options (except E90 was 6MT and the F30 is 8AT). There is NO comparison, the F30 is a MUCH better handling car and is also way, way more comfortable. I was genuinely shocked at how good the F30 was the first time I drove it.

[Remonster]

Originally Posted by mhabs

Actually consensus opinions with regard to automobiles matters quite a bit in terms of getting closest to the "truth". If every reviewer (including auto magazines, enthusiasts, racing drivers) reaches the same conclusion about the driving experience of a car, the consumer (who is unable to really see the car perform in demanding conditions in a normal test drive and going to a performance center to do a 'correct' test drive is impractical/costly), then following consensus opinion, in addition to their own test drive (which will be very limited in terms of exploring the limits) is an excellent way to arrive at a decision.

Fact is with the new BMWs, not every reviewer opinion (magazine, race drivers or enthusiast) is as corroborate as it once was, and this includes comparison tests with other cars.

I recently had a new loaner 328i (my car was in service) and I didn't feel it was significantly better driving feel wise was vs the prior gen (328i, 335i, 335 is), with one exception, which is ride quality (where I was shocked in how smooth it was). However, in my opinion it came at a cost of "road feeling", overall size/tossability, handling feel and the turbo charged engine/efficient dynamics definitely made you feel much more isolated from the drivetrain, which may be a good thing for a lot of people (and consensus opinion on the ride quality has been spot on with this with little/no dissenting opinion). But in terms of feeling connected to the road, I can totally see what the naysayers are talking about and why they exist currently vs before (where they were in a very small minority). I would personally prefer my old 2003 330i over this new gen in terms of driver feel (even giving up ride quality), but that is only one opinion. BTW, E46 and E39 consensus opinions were virtually universal on being 'best in class' and BMWs won nearly every car comparo (vs. about 50%-60% today for the new BMWs) and so many enthusiasts still love these old gens. That fact has to mean something.

I'll absolutely agree that the E46 and E39 were not only best in class in their era, but were further ahead of the competition than any other BMW has been since. This is mainly because the competition is making truly great cars these days and also because BMWs have gotten softer in recent years.

I feel that the ride/handling compromise on the F30 is much better than the E90 which rode very poorly, this is a big deal to me since all of the roads around San Diego look like they've been bombed to pieces. You do feel less connected to the road, but I think actual handling at the chassis level has been improved. Our F30 328i turns in much more sharply than my E90 328i did and it definitely has a more neutral handling balance (even though my E90 had the same size tires all around, it was very prone to understeer with the factory staggered setup. I would even go so far as to say the stock F30 handles better than my E90 did with the Eibach Pro System springs/dampers I eventually put on it and at that point I had also got rid of the runflats for summer performance Bridgestones (I think RE760s or something). I sold that E90 over two years ago so my memory may be fuzzy, but we have another stock E90 328i now and there is no comparison between it and our F30 if you ask me.

[FogCityM3]

Fair enough. I was very impressed by the ride quality/smoothness on some pretty bumpy NoCal roads and twistys, so I totally get where you're coming from.

Originally Posted by Remonster

I'll absolutely agree that the E46 and E39 were not only best in class in their era, but were further ahead of the competition than any other BMW has been since. This is mainly because the competition is making truly great cars these days and also because BMWs have gotten softer in recent years.

I feel that the ride/handling compromise on the F30 is much better than the E90 which rode very poorly, this is a big deal to me since all of the roads around San Diego look like they've been bombed to pieces. You do feel less connected to the road, but I think actual handling at the chassis level has been improved. Our F30 328i turns in much more sharply than my E90 328i did and it definitely has a more neutral handling balance (even though my E90 had the same size tires all around, it was very prone to understeer with the factory staggered setup. I would even go so far as to say the stock F30 handles better than my E90 did with the Eibach Pro System springs/dampers I eventually put on it and at that point I had also got rid of the runflats for summer performance Bridgestones (I think RE760s or something). I sold that E90 over two years ago so my memory may be fuzzy, but we have another stock E90 328i now and there is no comparison between it and our F30 if you ask me.