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View Poll Results: What's your take on this idea?
1) OMG, count me in, why didn't you already organize this for next week? 10 90.91%
2) What a ridiculous and lame idea - get lost! 1 9.09%
Voters: 11. You may not vote on this poll

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      06-17-2013, 08:55 PM   #1
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Take it to the track, but where and how - Who's in for some fun?

Dear All,

For the past couple of weeks, I have been desperately looking for an opportunity to take my car to the track for some slightly more serious cornering fun. Seems almost impossible, specially if you want to go on a weekday (I can't do weekends).

So here is what I found: Private rental of an entire track at the New Jersey Mostorsports Park. It's pricey but you get the track all by yourself and pretty much you can do whatever you want. No other track allows that. It also is by far the longest and most refined track that I could find.

There is daily rental, half days and hourly. Unless, we flood them with a group of 50 people, the best option seems to be a half day rental. Half days are either 9am-1.30pm or 2pm-6.30pm. With a very small group of only six people, such a half day would be just under $850 per person. For groups more than 7, we would need to add cost for flag stations etc. But even with just 15 people, the cost per car would go down to $460.

So long story short: Who would be interested in meeting Monday through Thursday for half a day at the track (I would suggest an afternoon session with dinner afterwards) any time in the near future. If we get enough people togther, I would be willing to organize the rest.

Hence, a quick poll, are you in or are you out?

Or of course: If you know better options, please let me know.

The track is located in South Jersey: http://goo.gl/maps/riAHn

Here's a map of the actual road track

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      06-17-2013, 08:59 PM   #2
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chudak18????
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      06-17-2013, 10:04 PM   #3
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I personally wouldn't be comfortable tracking without corner workers, especially if I were still a novice. And are they really letting just anyone with the cash come out and track their car, without instructors or even evaluations? No corner workers and neither quality control on students nor instructors riding shotgun would be way more dangerous than I'd be willing to deal with.

But the prices you're quoting are pretty steep, FYI. At least down here in Texas, $300 gets you an entire weekend with instructors, classes, corner workers, and emergency vehicles.
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      06-17-2013, 10:11 PM   #4
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Exact address?
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      06-17-2013, 10:13 PM   #5
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From their website:

www.NJMP.com
Mailing Address: 47 Warbird Dr., Millville, NJ 08332
GPS Address: 8000 Dividing Creek Rd., Millville, NJ 08332
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      06-18-2013, 07:53 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jphughan View Post
But the prices you're quoting are pretty steep, FYI. At least down here in Texas, $300 gets you an entire weekend with instructors, classes, corner workers, and emergency vehicles.
Where?
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      06-18-2013, 09:28 AM   #7
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thats a bit steep i think we should all try and go to a BMWCCA event at NJMP most likely cheaper.
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      06-18-2013, 09:40 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrsbmw
Quote:
Originally Posted by jphughan View Post
But the prices you're quoting are pretty steep, FYI. At least down here in Texas, $300 gets you an entire weekend with instructors, classes, corner workers, and emergency vehicles.
Where?
The Driver's Edge runs a few tracks throughout Texas. Awesome organizers. A weekend gets you 8 sessions of about 25 minutes each.
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      06-18-2013, 10:43 AM   #9
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Nice looking track.
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      06-18-2013, 10:48 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by jphughan View Post
The Driver's Edge runs a few tracks throughout Texas. Awesome organizers. A weekend gets you 8 sessions of about 25 minutes each.
Thanks, will check them out.
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      06-18-2013, 11:02 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jphughan View Post
I personally wouldn't be comfortable tracking without corner workers, especially if I were still a novice. And are they really letting just anyone with the cash come out and track their car, without instructors or even evaluations? No corner workers and neither quality control on students nor instructors riding shotgun would be way more dangerous than I'd be willing to deal with.

But the prices you're quoting are pretty steep, FYI. At least down here in Texas, $300 gets you an entire weekend with instructors, classes, corner workers, and emergency vehicles.
If I lived over there I'd definitely be down.

Who needs those stinkin' instructors and corner workers?! Kick the tires and the light the fires I always say! LOL! No just kidding.

But yeah that is a bit pricey indeed.
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      06-18-2013, 11:28 AM   #12
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I'd be down if we can get 15 people. M5army east coast? What??? Lol. Bmwcca may be the cheaper option, but you're also getting a lot more restrictions and structuring, also known as safety lol. (H) you should check out the Dig or Roll event at Atco. Akh23456 should be there too.
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      06-18-2013, 01:23 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrsbmw
Quote:
Originally Posted by jphughan View Post
The Driver's Edge runs a few tracks throughout Texas. Awesome organizers. A weekend gets you 8 sessions of about 25 minutes each.
Thanks, will check them out.
Cool, I think you'll like them. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions about them or HPDEs in general if you've never been. I've been running with them for about 3 years now and have always had a great time.
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      06-19-2013, 01:06 PM   #14
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seems very pricey, though i heard thunderbolt is a great track.

you might want to consider going through the BMWCCA. when i tracked the glen it was $300 for the 2 day event with 10 sessions. they are having another glen session in september and is worth the drive even from NJ.

i'm out of HPDE until i can recoup the cost of those brakes.
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      06-19-2013, 10:36 PM   #15
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I guess it really comes down to the fact that for this price (again, a lot when we are only six, but rather reasonable when we are 15) we can drive as much as we want for 4 hours straight.

If we add a couple of members with extensive track eperience, plus radio equipment, I am sure we will also manage to be safe.

We already have 9 people in, only six more to go ;-)
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      06-20-2013, 08:40 AM   #16
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^ 4 hours is about what you get from the weekend event I mentioned, and that includes breaks to let you and your car cool down so you're actually driving for 4 hours total. No way would you or an M5 last 4 hours nonstop. I'd count on driving for half that time, divided into 30-minute sessions and 30-minute breaks.

But a comment like the above suggests to me you've probably never been on a track, in which case I don't understand how you can be "sure" your proposed solution would be safe. Giving people radio equipment in their cars is not only nothing like having corner workers, in many ways it can be even less safe than having nothing. First off, radio chatter is distracting especially if it comes in garbled and your mind is now dwelling on whether you missed an important announcement, but more importantly nobody should be taking their hands off the wheel to press a button to talk while they're on a track. And I doubt VOX mode would work on a track since you're usually required to have your windows down. Also, not having emergency vehicles in case something goes wrong is also risky. Will there even be a tow truck to haul disabled cars off the track if that happens?

I'm still amazed that this track is letting just anybody take their car out by themselves, without any evidence of prior track experience or an evaluation ride. They must have some very expensive or very stupid insurers. Speaking of which, make sure either your insurance policy covers HPDEs (most don't anymore) or look into stated-value HPDE insurance from places like Lockton, though even they might not cover you for something this unstructured.

I don't know, a track day without instructors for a beginner also just seems like kind of a waste because you won't be learning techniques that could help you go faster rather than doing the same wrong thing every lap. Will they even cone the track for the benefit of beginners? And what's the passing policy? Will they have helmet rentals or will everyone be expected to have their own?
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      06-23-2013, 12:52 AM   #17
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It is correct, I don't have much track experience (been once on a road track only with professional instruction to be specific). But I have enough dricing experience to know in which areas I have to improve and taking the car to the track obviously doesn't mean that you just meaninglessly drive around a course as fast as you can but that you work on your weaknesses and improve your strong suits.
The track rental does of course come with all the bells and whistles, i.e. tow truck, fully staffed ambulance, even a security guard to make sure that it would only be us on the track. That is certainly part of the pricetag. And again, for any group more than six, the flag posts and additional precautions are included.
Regarding the radios, I am not talking about 2-ways but about an in-helmet system that stays open for emergencies and only the absolutely most necessary communication (not for chatter). No need to press any buttons. I can't recall the windows being down, btw. At speeds well in excess of 100mph, that is extremely distracting and obviously detrimental to the cars aerodynamics. What's the reason for the window-down policy?
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      06-23-2013, 05:55 AM   #18
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Windows are down so hand signs can be used on the track. It is very important for letting people know when they can pass you, letting people know you going into pit and other stuff as well.
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      06-23-2013, 08:13 PM   #19
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^ Exactly. Windows-down also prevents glass from flying into your arm and open-face helmet in an accident, in addition to allowing you to crawl out of your car if you roll it and can't get the door open or operate the windows anymore -- or so someone else can extricate you. Aerodynamic detriment is obviously far secondary to those safety concerns at an HPDE, as is concern for your interior when it's raining since most HPDEs require you to continue running windows-down even then. I did that once and while the amount of water on my rear seats after each session worried me at the time, everything was fine when it dried. Some organizers allow you to run windows-up in the rain and use turn signals rather than hand gestures, but that's uncommon. In any case, windows-down actually isn't distracting at all when you're driving. The only time you notice the noise is on the straights because everywhere else you're too focused on actually driving to notice wind noise, but the helmet quiets the wind noise down pretty well anyway.

Built-in helmet comms are very expensive even for driver/passenger chatterbox setups you'd use with an instructor, never mind radio-enabled setups like actual race teams use. No rental helmets would have either one (at most HPDEs, instructors bring chatterboxes and you each stuff an earpiece+mic setup into your helmets), so that's a bit of a pipe dream. For reference, Simpson charges $300 just to install an earpiece into a helmet you buy from them, not including a mic or radio. However, I believe PCA mandates one-way radio comms at least for actual races, and most participants just have regular walkie-talkies to which they connect an earpiece that they stick inside their helmet, which might be doable.

Agreed that people should be going out to practice technique and strengthen weaknesses, but not everyone does that especially when they've never tracked before and are left to their own devices out there. Still, glad to hear there would be tow trucks and EMTs at the ready, that definitely helps with accident mitigation if not prevention.
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