B&O retrofit, Ceramics, Winters and Turner back box

[mstmng]

Originally Posted by stealth.pilot

Yes. This implies that the factory option for CCB is heavily over-priced. By comparison factory B&O pricing seems reasonable.

true that, b&o seems reasonable

[rjn21]

I dug out my CC statements. Carbons were £8,856 inc vat. They come as a kit with 4 calipers, 4 discs, 8 pads, brake booster servo and a new undertray (which looked rather similar to current one) and instructions. The part no for the kit is 34 11 2 317 804. The box they arrive in is a huge wooden packing crate. 1 person could not get it off a lorry. Ideally a fork lift would be needed. Of course you need 20" wheels as well.

For the Turner exhaust, it sounds brilliant (so it should with no rear muffler at all), whilst the exhaust was cheap, the shipping was chunky. It came to $1,700 with $500 of that being shipping. There will be VAT to pay on arrival in the UK. I paid by PayPal as their merchant service agreement with Amex wouldn't let them ship to a non card billing address. My paypal links to my amex so no difference my end.

ETA: List price from factory for ceramics if specced is £7,395 and B&O is £3,345. I would expect 15% off those option prices, so it's certainly more expensive to add later, but the car I bought was too good to decline and it was there so pickup next day.

[rjn21]

The cheapest price I got for the amp was from Singapore at €1,380 with Shipping to UK.

[Palmnuts]

Did you not get new backing plates that sit behind the discs? I notice in my CC equipped M6, these are noticeably larger and a lot stronger than my previous non CC M6 (also an F13).

I know this because the long brush that I use to clean the wheels never stopped me getting right to the back of them in my previous M6, but the backing plates with CC brakes are so big that the brush won't fit between the plate and the wheel (the plate is literally a couple of mm smaller than the inside of the wheel - it's such a tight fit, no doubt to protect the discs from debris).

[rjn21]

I wondered what they were - yes got those as well. I now have a garage full of bits to be disposed of.

[Neil McRae]

I might do the ceramics in these new year. more from a pose point of view than really needing them as I think the stock brakes are excellent.

[rjn21]

I think the stock brakes are excellent also. I went for ceramics for 3 reasons, being 1. longevity, 2. look cool, 3. less brake dust.

I assume they are "better" in terms of their heat soak thermal capacity for repeated high speed stops on a race track, but no idea as I will never track the car. For ordinary use, the tyres are always the limiting factor as the stock brakes can always lock the tyres and trigger the ABS.

I find the ceramics less sharp compared with the stock. With the stock, I found I needed little foot pressure and minimal pedal movement to produce firm braking action, so it wasn't the smoothest progress. With the ceramics, more pressure and more movement of pedal is required to produce the same retardation. I think that's better as it allows for a smoother control of the brakes. Same as the throttle map which I prefer in comfort as it gives better control, rather than lots of throttle movement for limited pedal movement at the beginning of the curve.

[Palmnuts]

I went for ceramics for all of the above reasons but am surprised just how good they are. Outside of the sharper steering that you get with the Competition Pack, they're the one option that you can feel the benefit of every day. They're so powerful that they actually feel initially sharper than the standard brakes, but are in fact much easier to modulate. When you're really on it though, they can't disguise the fact they're trying to stop a near 2-tonne car so ultimately, it's still comprehensively out-braked by, say, my previous 997 Turbo which was on standard brakes.

I've had two F13 M6's back to back, the first one without ceramics and Competition Pack, the latter with, so it's been a good almost back-to-back comparison on the merits of both options. The lack of brake dust is really very good - even after 1k miles without a wash, there's absolutely none of it!

[rjn21]

Completed my mods now. Carbon rear diffuser, carbon front lips and P3 gauge. On the front lips, if you have ceramics, you will need to cut a slot in the undertray to let in the carbon lips so they sit flush.

[Neil McRae]

looks awesome - sakir looks fantastic in those pics but you need to take some decent ones !

[rjn21]

Agreed. The iPhone has been the death of decent camera kit..... But it is convenient.

[JOHNBMWM5]

Originally Posted by mstmng

They are not comfy, at least for long trips
And look very cheap!
I have m-multifuntional

YEP Me too much more comfortable , I got 13.5K off total price for the LCI, i thought that was good at the time.
Got some work done free as well, GPS rider and Video Camera wired/fitted free
and Service pack thrown in.
Full tank of fuel.

[w5pwr]

Originally Posted by rjn21

Agreed. The iPhone has been the death of decent camera kit..... But it is convenient.

Which exhaust do you have on your M5?

[jmh]

Originally Posted by w5pwr

Which exhaust do you have on your M5?

He has the Turner axle back exhaust
http://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-17...k-exhaust.aspx

[rjn21]

Turner back box delete. Sounds good. Post 1 has some video clips of it in action.

http://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-17...k-exhaust.aspx

[Bluehorseshoe]

Originally Posted by rjn21

Depends on the level of discount one gets from list on original purchase. If, for example, one were to get >20k of discount from list then it makes sense to add those bits later and not have to wait for 4 months....

Why would any dealer take a huge loss to sell an M5?

[Palmnuts]

Because even at the level of discount we're being given in the UK, they won't be selling at a loss. They get so much support from BMW UK, as well as bonus's for achieving volume thresholds of certain cars that net net, virtually any deal one manages to secure will still be profitable for the dealer.

[Bluehorseshoe]

Originally Posted by Palmnuts

Because even at the level of discount we're being given in the UK, they won't be selling at a loss. They get so much support from BMW UK, as well as bonus's for achieving volume thresholds of certain cars that net net, virtually any deal one manages to secure will still be profitable for the dealer.

Wow.. Quite different than here in the States. Invoice is 7-8 percent less MSRP, not including any support from BMWNA.

[w5pwr]

Originally Posted by jmh

He has the Turner axle back exhaust
http://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-17...k-exhaust.aspx

Originally Posted by rjn21

Turner back box delete. Sounds good. Post 1 has some video clips of it in action.

http://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-17...k-exhaust.aspx

Thanks, does in drone much between 1500-2000rpm?

[rjn21]

It does a bit if you are at low revs with a decent amount of throttle. Just use a lower gear! On the Mway around 70 with cruise on, its fine.

[Dionysus]

Originally Posted by Bluehorseshoe

Wow.. Quite different than here in the States. Invoice is 7-8 percent less MSRP, not including any support from BMWNA.

The front end margin is the same in the UK - cars have about 8% profit in them for the dealership. If you negotiate a discount above this, the dealer is in effect selling that car at a loss. They effectively 'gamble' this loss against there back end margin. This is the quarterly bonus (this can be lucrative if the volumes are high enough) that they get for hitting volume targets. This is why some dealers are reluctant to offer large discounts at the start of a quarter and, if they are close to hitting a quarterly target, very keen (i.e. offer bigger discounts) to close sale a sale on the last day of a quarter (this only works on stock cars as they must be registered in that quarter to qualify for the volume targets). Those dealers that target high volume, will be more likely to offer reasonable discounts earlier in the quarter. This is also why some dealers are less likely to offer big discounts on factory orders over stock cars (where they have capital tied up). Bottom line; they are a business with high overheads and we have to play fairly (especially with small independent dealers), otherwise they risk not being profitable. So when the good/repeat customers push a deal to the point that the sales manager 'gives in', I would very much doubt that the slightly defeated look is put on - all they have done is taken a risk (reduced their profit margins) for loyalty and because it's cheaper to retain customers than obtain/build relationships new ones.

BMW UK will occasionally run campaigns where they will support UK dealers (as they currently are for the 6/GC, 7 & M5/6/GC), most of the time, it's left to the dealership to work out how to remain profitable.

This is why they will be reluctant to offer discounts on a new car that is in high demand (M3/M4), at least initially as they need to offset their losses elsewhere and maximise their profits.

Fleet buyers, employee discounts, etc. are, obviously, a different matter altogether.

[JOHNBMWM5]

Originally Posted by Dionysus

The front end margin is the same in the UK - cars have about 8% profit in them for the dealership. If you negotiate a discount above this, the dealer is in effect selling that car at a loss. They effectively 'gamble' this loss against there back end margin. This is the quarterly bonus (this can be lucrative if the volumes are high enough) that they get for hitting volume targets. This is why some dealers are reluctant to offer large discounts at the start of a quarter and, if they are close to hitting a quarterly target, very keen (i.e. offer bigger discounts) to close sale a sale on the last day of a quarter (this only works on stock cars as they must be registered in that quarter to qualify for the volume targets). Those dealers that target high volume, will be more likely to offer reasonable discounts earlier in the quarter. This is also why some dealers are less likely to offer big discounts on factory orders over stock cars (where they have capital tied up). Bottom line; they are a business with high overheads and we have to play fairly (especially with small independent dealers), otherwise they risk not being profitable. So when the good/repeat customers push a deal to the point that the sales manager 'gives in', I would very much doubt that the slightly defeated look is put on - all they have done is taken a risk (reduced their profit margins) for loyalty and because it's cheaper to retain customers than obtain/build relationships new ones.

BMW UK will occasionally run campaigns where they will support UK dealers (as they currently are for the 6/GC, 7 & M5/6/GC), most of the time, it's left to the dealership to work out how to remain profitable.

This is why they will be reluctant to offer discounts on a new car that is in high demand (M3/M4), at least initially as they need to offset their losses elsewhere and maximise their profits.

Fleet buyers, employee discounts, etc. are, obviously, a different matter altogether.

Very well put.