Dinan Stage 1

[EuroKar]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye59

Guys,

Had Dinan Stage 1 installed at a BMW dealership in the Dallas area yesterday. Took it out last night for a 'first impression'. Biggest difference for me, so far, is torque in the mid-range. Did an 'MDM and Mash It' from a standstill. The tires spun through first gear, but not badly. Second gear hit with a bang, followed immediately by a rapid fishtail to the left. (Fun, but it got my heart going...) It 'feels' faster, but it was already fast, so to be sure I'm going to Alamo in Arlington for a dyno run tomorrow. It's a Dynojet, and I know there are differing opinions regarding the accuracy of the various dynos, but it's available tomorrow and I want it done before the 3 day 'money back guarantee' from Dinan expires. I don't have a 'baseline', but I've seen stock M5 dynojet results elsewhere. I'll also head for the dragstrip tomorrow night. I was there two weeks ago in very similar weather conditions, so apples to apples comps should be possible. I'm most interested in trap speeds, since I run stock tires and am traction limited off the line. I'll post the results of both events. One question for the group: Is there such a thing as a 'Dyno Mode' on an F10? The dyno operator said he worried about the ECU shutting down the fun unless the car was set up correctly. (He specifically mentioned that some AMG products must be set up to dyno them, and he thought it applied to BMW also, but wasn't sure.) I'll take any input from the group, but need it soon... Thanks.

That's true that Mercedes does have a "dyno mode".
I've witnessed a few F series M5/M6's on the dyno and didn't see any issues running them.
Cant wait to read your feedback. I recently removed the BMS and switched to Dinan. Power gains seem to be equally the same, unless you raise the boost a lot with BMS. But, the shifting and overall performance curve is soooo much smoother with Dinan. I am very happy with it and hopefully they release more software levels soon.

[M5Rlz]

5th gear is the 1:1 but it hits the limiter too fast

[Spinny02]

BMW's have proven to be under rated. It would have been best to get a pre install dyno and then post install dyno on the same dyno to see the gain. Dynos can read all over the place so it hard just judging by the post dyno.

I have a S1 pkg M5 and took a pre dyno @ 605 HP/580 tq I need to do a post dyno after the s1 install but my shops dyno is awaiting parts.

Originally Posted by Hawkeye59

Guys,

Had Dinan Stage 1 installed at a BMW dealership in the Dallas area yesterday. Took it out last night for a 'first impression'. Biggest difference for me, so far, is torque in the mid-range. Did an 'MDM and Mash It' from a standstill. The tires spun through first gear, but not badly. Second gear hit with a bang, followed immediately by a rapid fishtail to the left. (Fun, but it got my heart going...) It 'feels' faster, but it was already fast, so to be sure I'm going to Alamo in Arlington for a dyno run tomorrow. It's a Dynojet, and I know there are differing opinions regarding the accuracy of the various dynos, but it's available tomorrow and I want it done before the 3 day 'money back guarantee' from Dinan expires. I don't have a 'baseline', but I've seen stock M5 dynojet results elsewhere. I'll also head for the dragstrip tomorrow night. I was there two weeks ago in very similar weather conditions, so apples to apples comps should be possible. I'm most interested in trap speeds, since I run stock tires and am traction limited off the line. I'll post the results of both events. One question for the group: Is there such a thing as a 'Dyno Mode' on an F10? The dyno operator said he worried about the ECU shutting down the fun unless the car was set up correctly. (He specifically mentioned that some AMG products must be set up to dyno them, and he thought it applied to BMW also, but wasn't sure.) I'll take any input from the group, but need it soon... Thanks.

[JPMD]

Originally Posted by boots

Time will tell after a couple guys test out their new toys!

Great point I'm sure we are finally getting close to seeing some real world testing.

[boots]

Yes sir. As soon as john gets home and gets his ecu adjusted we'll have a few runs. Should be interesting. V

[JPMD]

Found this post on another forum.


"The Dinan rep called me in response to my post. He stated that the total hp of 666 that the stage 1 upgrade was correct but due to the fact that BMW understated their hp at 575 for the competition package, the 91 hp increase was inaccurate. Dinan thinks the correct hp stock is in the 625 range so maybe a 40 hp gain is realized with their modification. Still from a seat of the pants impact, I don't feel any difference. Dinan apologized and is in the process of not only modifying their web page to relect the modest gain but is also working on a remap of their stage 1 performance package to increase the hp gain. He stated they are a couple of weeks away from a upgrade. So if you have a comp pkg car, I would wait on the product improvement."

[wrsbmw]

Hawkeye, what were your quarter results from stock baseline? Did you get a Vbox or Performance Box?

[houstonT]

Any dyno update? Seems like all nannies off and 5th gear is the right way to do it.

[Hawkeye1]

Guys,

Typing this on a iPad. I'll do a more in depth review later. Bottom line: Dyno results were disappointing, but I'm not sure it was the car's fault. Ambient temp was over 110 degrees and there was minimal airflow at the dyno stand. Heat soak took a toll. Highest measured HP was 500 at the wheels. I'd like to try it again with another dyno. (Spinny was right by the way. I should have done a baseline on the same dyno before installing the mod.) On a related note, it was worth the $75 I paid just to hear the engine at full throttle from outside the car... Sounded like a choir of angels.

Dragstrip was much better. Quarter mile time improved by four tenths and trap speed by four mph as compared to my results two weeks ago in similar weather conditions. 60 foot times were almost identical to my results last time, so I credit the improvement to the tune. The one surprise was the lack of wheelspin off the line. Two weeks ago I had to aggressively feather the throttle to keep the tires connected to the asphalt. It was much easier this time. I was able to floor the throttle in one smooth push, and the car hooked up and went. As I said, 60 foot times almost identical, but easier to accomplish. (They're still mediocre by the way. 2.1 seconds). I'll try to get the timeslips and maybe even a video posted this weekend.

[boots]

So what we need is side by side runs. We wil posted up soon.

[Hawkeye1]

Originally Posted by boots

So what we need is side by side runs. We wil posted up soon.

Agreed. Until they're side by side, we just won't know for sure.

[Hawkeye1]

Guys,

The longer reply:

Had the D-Tronics Stage 1 installed Wednesday. Friday afternoon did a dyno run, followed by some time at Texas Motorplex doing quarter miles. Some details:

Dynojet Results:

It was hotter than blazes in the dyno room, 111F. The room was not air-conditioned. The dyno operator chose 4th gear for the run, though we had discussed that 5th would be 1:1. The only cooling units available were three smallish, portable fans pointed at the front of the car. Heat soak was certainly an issue. The good news, as noted above, it sounded awesome at full throttle. (I have stock exhaust. Wonder what it might sound like with a good aftermarket system...) The operator didn't measure RPM, so torque wasn't measured (wheel speed only). I downloaded the data into Dynojet.com and the graph is attached. After I got home, I back-calculated RPM from the wheel speed data, and then back calculated torque. That graph is also attached. The shape is about what you'd expect. Peak torque comes in before 3,000 rpm and holds through about 5,000 rpm. Overall, I was pretty disappointed with the process and would like to do it again in a more climate controlled environment (with direct measurements of RPM and Torque). Results: Peak HP = 500 Peak Torque = 450 (both measurements taken at the wheels). We hit those numbers on the first run. The next two runs went downhill. Too much heat.

Dragstrip Results:

Better outcome here. Two weeks ago, before the mod, I performed several quarter mile runs at a local strip. The results: 12.681 s at 116.99 mph. (Pretty lousy results, but it was about 95 degrees and humid, plus I struggled to get the tires to hook up.) 60 foot time was 2.25 s. A V-Box Tools graph of the run appears below.

Last night: First run was 12.087 s at 121.26 mph. 60 foot time was 2.11 s. I did two more runs, one right after the other (no waiting at the start line). Heat soak was again an issue. By the third run, I'd lost a full second and eight mph. The 60 foot times were only slightly slower. I don't have V-Box graphs, so the timeslips from all three runs are attached instead.

Given that the 60 foot time was only slightly quicker than 2 weeks ago, I have to give credit to the tune for the performance improvement (6 tenths ET and 4.3 mph) in similar weather. As I said earlier, tire spin was easier to modulate at launch. Not sure why. Could be surface treatment at the track, but there is no evidence of that. Could be that our friends at Dinan decided to detune the engine a little at low RPM in 1st gear, but that's 100% conjecture. In any case, my 3 runs had remarkably repeatable 60 foot times. (They were mediocre 60 foot times, but repeatable.)

One final note, a few months ago, I did some runs in much cooler weather (less than 80F). The first run that night was 11.97s at 119.3 mph. 60 foot time was 1.9s. (A post with that time slip is out there somewhere on this website.) I couldn't match that ET last night, but beat the trap speed by 2 mph in poor conditions.

My summary: Car is stronger. Driver, not so much...

[shahano]

interesting... please let us know when you put them side to side. Also would like to see a BMS and dinan car next to each other as well

[boots]

Shahano we r working on that

[houstonT]

I have BONE STOCK comp package car and would love to do some vids side by side with a tune car as well....

[EuroKar]

Originally Posted by shahano

interesting... please let us know when you put them side to side. Also would like to see a BMS and dinan car next to each other as well

The BMS car would have to have a lower boost setting. If the BMS car is set to 3 or 3.5 and higher it will pull on the Dinan car.
I know, I have installed both setups a few times now.

[JPMD]

Originally Posted by EuroKar

The BMS car would have to have a lower boost setting. If the BMS car is set to 3 or 3.5 and higher it will pull on the Dinan car.
I know, I have installed both setups a few times now.

I disagree. Since the BMS is truly customizable I say allow for whatever boost makes the car faster. Without any real data my car feels fastest at 3.5 and I use 93 octane and only other "mod" is charcoal delete with BMS. If I were to race I would keep it in 3.5 and see how I do. Why detune and limit the product for a head to head tune.

Other factors however should be as close to even as possible i.e. Intake, DPs, tires , etc to make it a fair comparison.

[EuroKar]

Originally Posted by JPMD

I disagree. Since the BMS is truly customizable I say allow for whatever boost makes the car faster. Without any real data my car feels fastest at 3.5 and I use 93 octane and only other "mod" is charcoal delete with BMS. If I were to race I would keep it in 3.5 and see how I do. Why detune and limit the product for a head to head tune.

Other factors however should be as close to even as possible i.e. Intake, DPs, tires , etc to make it a fair comparison.

What I was trying to say is that if anyone is wondering what will be faster in head to head... the BMS car will be faster if their boost setting is 3.5 or higher.
Sure, raise it to whatever you want. That's the whole purpose of being able to adjust the settings.

[JMG7]

I have a 2014 M5 manual competition package. Had the performance software upgrade (Dinan stage 1) and the free flow (axle back) exhaust installed. Felt no gain from the tune and virtually no significant improvement in the exhaust note. Dyno'd the car to see if my suspicion was correct. Sure enough, it pulled stock numbers (when extrapolated from Axle to wheel). I have to presume the Dyno was as accurate as can be expected b/c of the (dyno) owner's reputation. More importantly, I felt no difference post upgrade.. Spoke with the dealership and waiting to see if I'll get a refund or a re-flash. Very disappointing situation. In retrospect I should have gone with an aggressive exhaust and called it a day. Car has such great power stock.

[wrsbmw]

Originally Posted by JMG7

I have a 2014 M5 manual competition package. Had the performance software upgrade (Dinan stage 1) and the free flow (axle back) exhaust installed. Felt no gain from the tune and virtually no significant improvement in the exhaust note. Dyno'd the car to see if my suspicion was correct. Sure enough, it pulled stock numbers (when extrapolated from Axle to wheel). I have to presume the Dyno was as accurate as can be expected b/c of the (dyno) owner's reputation. More importantly, I felt no difference post upgrade.. Spoke with the dealership and waiting to see if I'll get a refund or a re-flash. Very disappointing situation. In retrospect I should have gone with an aggressive exhaust and called it a day. Car has such great power stock.

If you didn't do your own dyno before the Stage 1 addition then you have no baseline. There isn't a "stock" number for the car. I can see where you might not see as much change in the exhaust note because you were comparing it to the competition exhaust which is better than the non-competition exhaust which I had. I was happy with what I got from the Dinan exhaust but I was able to improve on it by adding Noelle downpipes with 400 cell cats. I also got a HP gain from the Noelle pipes.

I have documented the improvements gained from Stage 2 on my stock 2013 M5. You might want to dig up those threads. The only time I had a problem with the tune, it was fixed under the warranty and my performance enhancements returned. I am really not sure why so many people are buying the Stage 1 tune when the stage 2 is only about 10% more. Is it because you didn't want to add the CAI? If you do that then Stage 2 is definitely more expensive. However, I have noticed that some who have done Stage 1 already had the Gruppe M intake and so could have gained more with Stage 2 for only about $250 more?

I also find it most interesting that your first post on the forum is a Dinan bash. Not pictures of your car or an introduction but instead, an undocumented bashing of the product.


JMG7
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Drives: 2014 M5 Competition Package
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[JMG7]

Not intending to bash Dinan. I never would have dropped 7K on upgrades if i did not have a good understanding and sincere respect for the company's philosophy and track record..
My personal experience with the software upgrade is very real. Per Dinan, the diffence should be 'night and day".. Something is not right. They evidently agree. I just heard from the dealership and they will re-flash it tomorrow. Dealership and Dinan have been very helpful through this mini-oreal.

I get back from a trip Monday and will put up a post Tuesday night. Will re-dyno the car at HP Logic in West Palm and will post results when I have them.

We agree on the exhaust note. Thanks for the tip on how to wake it up.

Finally, I didn't post an introduction b/c I wasn't sure anyone cared..

My name is Josh. I am a convert from Audi. Last car was an Audi RS5 with the Stasis Challenge suspension, stasis wheel package and a full milltek exhaust. Switched to the M5 b/c I prefer RWD and manual transmission. I am in love with this car.

This is my first foray into any forum.
Grateful for your input. Hope I clarified.

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by JMG7

Not intending to bash Dinan. I never would have dropped 7K on upgrades if i did not have a good understanding and sincere respect for the company's philosophy and track record..
My personal experience with the software upgrade is very real. Per Dinan, the diffence should be 'night and day".. Something is not right. They evidently agree. I just heard from the dealership and they will re-flash it tomorrow. Dealership and Dinan have been very helpful through this mini-oreal.

I get back from a trip Monday and will put up a post Tuesday night. Will re-dyno the car at HP Logic in West Palm and will post results when I have them.

We agree on the exhaust note. Thanks for the tip on how to wake it up.

Finally, I didn't post an introduction b/c I wasn't sure anyone cared..

My name is Josh. I am a convert from Audi. Last car was an Audi RS5 with the Stasis Challenge suspension, stasis wheel package and a full milltek exhaust. Switched to the M5 b/c I prefer RWD and manual transmission. I am in love with this car.

This is my first foray into any forum.
Grateful for your input. Hope I clarified.

Let them re-flash and then give ECU 200-300 miles to be adapted.