Software issue or Hardware issue? need solution/advice

MCarsFan · 05-06-2015, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mstmng

so i have another update

apparently my tune is Br tune and Bruno is the one who is writing the tune, my guy is only applying it to the ECU

Bruno is saying it is a hardware issue as software is definitely issue free

They decreased power: torque, boost etc, NOT the timing and reflashed my car.
I went to test drive it and same issue again, however now it happened in 5th gear, after i redlined it all the way down the 4th, but it did happen in 5th only before, so i will do more tests on airfield on saturday

now my guy said that he used some tools to read all the info and my high pressure fuel pump should be pumping 200 bar, however it pumps only 180bar

now the question is, does anyone know what stock fuel pump is/must be pumping at? if it should be pumping at 200, then obviously i need to replace the pump or look into valves between pumps, etc

if it should not be pumping at 200, means my tune is too aggressive for stock hardware and we need to lower the power down even further

anyone here in good relations with LEIB in order to speak to them and see what they say regarding my issue? i would go down to them, but their price for tune is a bit of overkill especially when so many tuners are offering it...!

I have only spoken to LEIB last year when I was deciding to get my car tuned. I would contact them at info@leib-engineering.de and ask them.

My concern is that you are told that they have a solution and then you pay a massive amount for a flash...

mstmng · 05-07-2015, 04:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MCarsFan

I have only spoken to LEIB last year when I was deciding to get my car tuned. I would contact them at info@leib-engineering.de and ask them.

My concern is that you are told that they have a solution and then you pay a massive amount for a flash...

Just spoken to Leib and thats what they told me:

we thought it is a hardware issue and to be specific a fuel pump

however we have used different tools to check the fuel pump and fuel pump was working perfectly even on cars with 60-70k kms! So we looked into our coding and we had an issue with fuelling, once we fixed that, we did not have any problems ever since.

Top numbers they have ever achieved were: 740BHP and 930/940Nm torque.

Now it makes sense to me, as it is easiest thing to say to a client that he has a problem with his fuel pump, as there is pretty much no way client can check that, unless he replaces it and how many of you going to replace from your pocket? and how many of you gonna fight bmw to replace it if with no tune car works absolutely fine?

so i can conclude that Br did let me down and they cannot accept their fault, which is a shame!

getting my money back and going to Leib, should have done it in first place back in September

Also stage 3 coming from Leib soon with new manifolds, should be pushing real 800BHP, not fake PP/Manhart

Spinny02 · 05-07-2015, 05:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mstmng

Quote:

Originally Posted by MCarsFan

I have only spoken to LEIB last year when I was deciding to get my car tuned. I would contact them at info@leib-engineering.de and ask them.

My concern is that you are told that they have a solution and then you pay a massive amount for a flash...

Just spoken to Leib and thats what they told me:

we thought it is a hardware issue and to be specific a fuel pump

however we have used different tools to check the fuel pump and fuel pump was working perfectly even on cars with 60-70k kms! So we looked into our coding and we had an issue with fuelling, once we fixed that, we did not have any problems ever since.

Top numbers they have ever achieved were: 740BHP and 930/940Nm torque.

Now it makes sense to me, as it is easiest thing to say to a client that he has a problem with his fuel pump, as there is pretty much no way client can check that, unless he replaces it and how many of you going to replace from your pocket? and how many of you gonna fight bmw to replace it if with no tune car works absolutely fine?

so i can conclude that Br did let me down and they cannot accept their fault, which is a shame!

getting my money back and going to Leib, should have done it in first place back in September

Also stage 3 coming from Leib soon with new manifolds, should be pushing real 800BHP, not fake PP/Manhart

Looking forward to hearing the results.

MCarsFan · 05-07-2015, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mstmng

Just spoken to Leib and thats what they told me:

we thought it is a hardware issue and to be specific a fuel pump

however we have used different tools to check the fuel pump and fuel pump was working perfectly even on cars with 60-70k kms! So we looked into our coding and we had an issue with fuelling, once we fixed that, we did not have any problems ever since.

Top numbers they have ever achieved were: 740BHP and 930/940Nm torque.

Now it makes sense to me, as it is easiest thing to say to a client that he has a problem with his fuel pump, as there is pretty much no way client can check that, unless he replaces it and how many of you going to replace from your pocket? and how many of you gonna fight bmw to replace it if with no tune car works absolutely fine?

so i can conclude that Br did let me down and they cannot accept their fault, which is a shame!

getting my money back and going to Leib, should have done it in first place back in September

Also stage 3 coming from Leib soon with new manifolds, should be pushing real 800BHP, not fake PP/Manhart

So the coding does not take into account sufficient fuel needs and causes fuel starvation..sounds like this makes sense

I would get that fixed by your tuner explaining to BR this needs to be addressed

if BR cannot fix then I agree time to head to LEIB..how is their pricing?

Spinny02 · 05-07-2015, 10:29 AM

I would hope that they would give you a discount because your ecu is already unlocked. Br may have enabled obd port. If that's the case the Ecu s won't have to be removed and they could even remote in and tune.

mstmng · 05-07-2015, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spinny02

I would hope that they would give you a discount because your ecu is already unlocked. Br may have enabled obd port. If that's the case the Ecu s won't have to be removed and they could even remote in and tune.

doubt it, been told i better bring my car stock

and they will remove ecu's in any case

mstmng · 05-07-2015, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MCarsFan

So the coding does not take into account sufficient fuel needs and causes fuel starvation..sounds like this makes sense

I would get that fixed by your tuner explaining to BR this needs to be addressed

if BR cannot fix then I agree time to head to LEIB..how is their pricing?

pricing is a bit too much, pm if interested, but they have all the rights to charge it, as looks like they are the only company who does not have any issues and know exactly what they are doing

boots · 05-07-2015, 02:20 PM

And I said from the beginning that I felt it was a fuel starvation thing. Way to go!

gmd2003 · 05-07-2015, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spinny02

Quote:

Originally Posted by MCarsFan

Quote:

Originally Posted by mstmng

yet it is another thread on drive train malfunction, but a bit different, as i need to decide ASAP whats the next step i should take to try and fix it.

I am running a tune with 705BHP and 920NM torque

i have no issues on everyday basis use, however when i go out on autobahn/airfield and go WOT in any mode (efficient/sport/sport+) soon as rpms get to 5-5.5k i get misfires and if i dont let off the throttle immediately or change to next gear i get CEL (sometimes blinking (it is different from when it is just there)), drive train malfunction and power loss. Soon as i stop, turn the engine off, turn it on, power is back, d t mal is gone and CEL needs to be cleared obviously.

yesterday i had 1000-mile drive and i was trying to figure out if this happens only under WOT or not, so i did manage to get to 7400rpms in 4th without getting any errors under 1/2 - 3/4 of throttle but then i got all the issues under 1/4-1/2 throttle in 5th gear coming to 5500 rpms

i have never had this issue with catless DP's and NO tune, catless dp's and BMS with NO can tool, so logically thinking it is caused by ECU tune and my tuner clearly does not know what the issue is, as he never tested car under WOT and under slowly acceleration he got to 190mph on dyno and car been with him twice already

HOWEVER, my mechanic at bmw did all the tests and checked my spark plugs and coils and there were misfires in the memory of all 8 cylinders obviously and code: 118111 Mixture control 2, cross-bank: Fuel-air mixture too rich, but fuel-air fault appeared twice at 0 rpms and 760 rpms in other words at the time of engine being off and then at idling

so he said fuel-air issue in definitely a software issue and 100% related to my tune, however d t mal/cel/power loss might be to do with turbo actuators! as early e9* 335's had exact same issue with d t mal, cel, power loss under WOT above 120mph and bmw couldnt understand what the issue is, but eventually they changed actuators and issue was gone.

also i get misfires/d t mal and CEL when i start the car after 24h of not using it, then i need to turn it off, start again couple of times and then it is gone!

i have no problem changing actuators, however do i need to spend $$ and mine and my mech's time ? my car going back to tuner tomorrow and i want him to play around with timing between 5k rpms and redline, however if anyone had exact same issue and knows exactly what needs to be adjusted please let me know here or PM me... i am quite desperate to fix it, as i have airfield event coming on saturday and so many super/hypercars coming there, but unless my car is fixed, no point going there and then i have to wait till end July for next event

i wanted to drive down to Br and get a tune done there before saturday, however they told me next available appointment is 6-7 weeks away and it is kind of pointless for me to pay twice for more or less same tune, when i am sure solution is there and it is easy, it is just my tuner does not know exactly what needs to be done

any input would be highly appreciated!

What I have picked up is that this issue seems to be happening to cars with more aggressive tuning and downpipes.. I have had a BR PERFORMANCE tune since January.. I can run my car to the max in any gear WOT .. No dtmal.. Yesterday I ran my car through to a town on back roads here in CA and specifically drove hard to see whether I could cause a dtmal. Not once.

What I am saying to you is I suspect it's got to do with the remap down pipe combination somehow. Bone stock I am dynod at 612 whp. At 15% correction factor I'm in your ballpark for hp.

Every person who I have spoken to who has the issue has both downpipes and the more aggressive remap combo. I can't say with 100% certainty.. But that has been my experience..

I think the best thing to do is to get your remap customized by your tuner and go from there..if that doesn't work..maybe head to BR?

If I still lived in London, I would make the trip just because I am confident BR could sort it out with your car there on their Dyno.

I am running catted DPs. It has to be with timing/ advance or fuel delivery in my opinion. I would ask your tuner to scale back the tune just a bit and let us know if that works.

If I can't get the Dinan 100% in the next month I am going to have Eurochagred tune on their 4 wheel dyno for the day so we can get real results and confirm that there will be no issues at all peddle inputs. I want a fast reliable tune, not the most aggressive less reliable version and thats why I originally picked the Dinan.

Spinny I just got my replacement ECU from Dinan and all the issues were solved . Car is trapping 130 again and feels fantastic .Hope they get things sorted out for you too .
As far as these flash tune issues , it's almost always the tune and not a mechanical issue . The it's your car not our tune excuse is unfortunately very common and almost always untrue lol .

MCarsFan · 05-07-2015, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mstmng

pricing is a bit too much, pm if interested, but they have all the rights to charge it, as looks like they are the only company who does not have any issues and know exactly what they are doing

Hope it's sorted mate.

MCarsFan · 05-07-2015, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gmd2003

Spinny I just got my replacement ECU from Dinan and all the issues were solved . Car is trapping 130 again and feels fantastic .Hope they get things sorted out for you too .
As far as these flash tune issues , it's almost always the tune and not a mechanical issue . The it's your car not our tune excuse is unfortunately very common and almost always untrue lol .

Agree..however, a lot of remaps have been fine and we will need to see how this all pans out still as its early days.

M-bitious · 05-08-2015, 12:54 AM

I had exactly this problem when running piggy bags. It is not fuel starvation it is the mixture becoming too rich. Only a proper tune can fix the respective code in that fuel map. Who fixed this for me? Leib Engineering. The specs you are giving were from my M5. We got to 746bhp and 935Nm.

mstmng · 05-08-2015, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M-bitious

I had exactly this problem when running piggy bags. It is not fuel starvation it is the mixture becoming too rich. Only a proper tune can fix the respective code in that fuel map. Who fixed this for me? Leib Engineering. The specs you are giving were from my M5. We got to 746bhp and 935Nm.

have you ever done V-max run or never had a chance?

M-bitious · 05-08-2015, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mstmng

have you ever done V-max run or never had a chance?

I have done numerous runs, but at that time there was another speed limiter at 328 km/h (205mph) or GPS 315 km/h (197 mph). Nowadays they should have the software completely delimiting the car.

Jay-K · 05-08-2015, 11:28 AM

I believe the tune keeps resetting the CEL..
might be a real CEL??

MCarsFan · 05-09-2015, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mstmng

pricing is a bit too much, pm if interested, but they have all the rights to charge it, as looks like they are the only company who does not have any issues and know exactly what they are doing

Hey, what have you decided to do? Flash back to stock and send in ECUs to LEIB?

mstmng · 05-10-2015, 05:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MCarsFan

Hey, what have you decided to do? Flash back to stock and send in ECUs to LEIB?

i dont want to send ECU's away so i need to wait till i have time to go to LEIB

plus owner of the company where i tuned my car told me he will sort it out... so i give it one last go... not sure how, but maybe he will look into coding himself

and on positive note there is another tuner in UK, who tuned his m5 after developing his own tune and he went yesterday to airfield event where i was suppose to go and got to 192mph (by gps) and then ran out of airfield, but still had power to go

he dynod his car at 701bhp, 650lbft torque and car is stock (except for tune)

he will start working on stage 2 in a week and once its ready, maybe i get his tune

MCarsFan · 05-10-2015, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mstmng

i dont want to send ECU's away so i need to wait till i have time to go to LEIB

plus owner of the company where i tuned my car told me he will sort it out... so i give it one last go... not sure how, but maybe he will look into coding himself

and on positive note there is another tuner in UK, who tuned his m5 after developing his own tune and he went yesterday to airfield event where i was suppose to go and got to 192mph (by gps) and then ran out of airfield, but still had power to go

he dynod his car at 701bhp, 650lbft torque and car is stock (except for tune)

he will start working on stage 2 in a week and once its ready, maybe i get his tune

Ah..but you see this is what I'm saying..my car is stock everything..no issues..and I'm at around 700hp..

05-07-2015, 10:29 AM	#27
Spinny02 Lieutenant Colonel 124 Rep 1,840 Posts Drives: '14 M5 CP Dinan Stage 2 Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Houston, Tx iTrader: (2) Garage List 2018 Escalade ESV P ... [0.00] 2014 M5 Dinan S1 [0.00]	I would hope that they would give you a discount because your ecu is already unlocked. Br may have enabled obd port. If that's the case the Ecu s won't have to be removed and they could even remote in and tune. __________________
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05-07-2015, 02:20 PM	#30
boots Curve Thrasher 623 Rep 3,773 Posts Drives: 2013 Bmw m5..White/Blk. Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Cypress Tx iTrader: (0)	And I said from the beginning that I felt it was a fuel starvation thing. Way to go!
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05-08-2015, 12:54 AM	#34
M-bitious Lieutenant 83 Rep 411 Posts Drives: BMW M2 Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Amsterdam iTrader: (0)	I had exactly this problem when running piggy bags. It is not fuel starvation it is the mixture becoming too rich. Only a proper tune can fix the respective code in that fuel map. Who fixed this for me? Leib Engineering. The specs you are giving were from my M5. We got to 746bhp and 935Nm.
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05-08-2015, 11:28 AM	#37
Jay-K Brigadier General 384 Rep 3,450 Posts Drives: Slow Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: LA iTrader: (0)	I believe the tune keeps resetting the CEL.. might be a real CEL?? __________________ "Well, there's a straight-six engine at the front, a manual gearbox in the middle and drive goes to the back. That's Page 1, Chapter 1 from the petrosexual handbook" - JC
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