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      09-21-2016, 12:32 AM   #67
apexlocator
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So if upgrading SSP clutches, it's recommended to clean also since the tranny will be cracked open? Does any part of this cleaning process require the tranny be sent to SSP?
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      09-21-2016, 09:53 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apexlocator View Post
So if upgrading SSP clutches, it's recommended to clean also since the tranny will be cracked open? Does any part of this cleaning process require the tranny be sent to SSP?
You don't have to break the transmission open to install the clutch. The clutch is accessed thru the front of the transmission.
To clean the transmission properly, then yes it will need to be opened up. Most shops will not work on the inside of the transmission, then yes we would help with this procedure.

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      09-21-2016, 12:04 PM   #69
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If the trans is out for the clutch I would recommend having it cleaned. The gunk in there is astonishing and it obviously affects the proper functionality of the DCT.
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      09-21-2016, 01:45 PM   #70
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      09-21-2016, 09:51 PM   #71
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Shift fork sliders and gear sets.


This is an accumulation of metallic gear debris on the shift fork magnets. This debris causes the transmission to fall out gear and irregular shifting.
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      09-21-2016, 10:01 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SSPKris

Shift fork sliders and gear sets.


This is an accumulation of metallic gear debris on the shift fork magnets. This debris causes the transmission to fall out gear and irregular shifting.
So what's the answer to reduce or eliminate all of the metal shavings/accumulation?
I doubt more frequent fluid changes are the complete answer.
Maybe some better forged or billet internals?
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      09-21-2016, 10:08 PM   #73
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Putting magnets into the pan is easy and very common. It begs the question if ZF knew these things were going to fail since they tested it and strategically put magnets in places they knew would be an issue vs designing it better.

Last edited by m5james; 09-21-2016 at 10:27 PM..
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      09-21-2016, 10:20 PM   #74
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Part of the solution is to add more magnets (strategically placed) - but it is inevitable that some debris will still accumulate.

Maybe it's an every two year maintenance to remove the tranny and clear it out..
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      09-21-2016, 10:20 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m5james
Putting magnets into the pan is easy and very common. It begs the question if ZF knew these things were going to fail since they tested it and strategically put magnets in place they knew would be an issue vs designing it better.
Good point!

A separate external filtration system would clean the fluid better but still not eliminate the underlying problem, weak parts.

And since SSP has an aftermarket cooling upgrade, fitting inline filters seems pretty simple.
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      09-21-2016, 10:22 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by momos750 View Post
Good point!

A separate external filtration system would clean the fluid better but still not eliminate the underlying problem, weak parts.
Gears made of different material or cut differently??
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      09-21-2016, 10:24 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allmotor_2000
Quote:
Originally Posted by momos750 View Post
Good point!

A separate external filtration system would clean the fluid better but still not eliminate the underlying problem, weak parts.
Gears made of different material or cut differently??
Maybe some billet or straight cut gears like a sequential race trans. Would shift hard as shit but what's wrong with that?? Lol
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      09-21-2016, 10:33 PM   #78
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The shift fork magnets are constantly submerged in fluid and subject to collecting metal filings. Frequent fluid changes will only slow the rate of wear on the gears. This problem plagues all dual clutch transmissions.

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      09-23-2016, 11:19 AM   #79
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I have 84k on my car. The 2nd most of any m5. Updated to ssp clutch @ 81k. So I k ow I have debri since I guess this is considered high mileage. Kris pm me your price on the cleaning process please
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      09-23-2016, 01:09 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boots View Post
I have 84k on my car. The 2nd most of any m5. Updated to ssp clutch @ 81k. So I k ow I have debri since I guess this is considered high mileage. Kris pm me your price on the cleaning process please
Have you seen any issue under WOT shifting at high RPMs? Usually it throws a rod 5-7 code and gets a DTML. Other times it just cuts off power and doesn't throw a DTML.
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      09-23-2016, 01:17 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by momos750 View Post
Maybe some billet or straight cut gears like a sequential race trans. Would shift hard as shit but what's wrong with that?? Lol
This brings a question to mind for SSP. Would spur gears in the trans take some of the torque load off the case, for high horsepower applications? Since a DCT pre-engages the next gear, there shouldn't be any extra shock to the shifting action, should there? Would the added noise be prohibitive for a street car?
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      09-23-2016, 09:05 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allmotor_2000 View Post
Have you seen any issue under WOT shifting at high RPMs? Usually it throws a rod 5-7 code and gets a DTML. Other times it just cuts off power and doesn't throw a DTML.
Ive never had any codes shifting at any low/ high speed shifting. My car hasn't experienced any loss any power either. Not w previous tune or my current one. I race usually starting in 2 or 3rd gear all to 160-180 also so never an issue and hope to never have any. If I'm right from your early post you are running more hp than I am. Maybe that makes the diff.
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      09-23-2016, 09:13 PM   #83
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It used to happen at high boost, S3 only. Then eventually in S2 and then finally in Auto.

In the end it happens on the stock flash as well.

Just gets worse over time...

Yes. More power - around 1000hp and 1000ft-lbs torque.
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      09-24-2016, 03:09 PM   #84
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There is nothing that can be done to prevent the build up of metal debris on the shift forks. A good cleaning every 50K or so will need to be done. We are making a how to, on how to clean these magnets.

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      09-24-2016, 03:10 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by momos750 View Post
Maybe some billet or straight cut gears like a sequential race trans. Would shift hard as shit but what's wrong with that?? Lol
Helical cut gears are the best way to go. They offer a 20% wider surface over straight cut gears.

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      09-24-2016, 09:17 PM   #86
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^^^ although they exert a thrust loads on the bearings and case etc and rob some power- they run quieter and is the main reason for their use.

The magnets appear to be doing their work, regular oil changes and aditional magnets will help along with a major strip and clean. All this is depentant how much 'racing' you do. I hardly ever use S3 or D3- most of my commute is between D1 and D2 so dought I have anything like this build up of filings etc at 65k miles. Allmotor has done hundereds of passes at the drags and has run tunes upto 1000hp/Tq, ts probably the hardest run M5 in the world- the gear box was always going to show wear- not sure what you guys thought you would see - pristine internals and oil??? I am actual pleasantly suprised to see so little obvious wear and filings build up - gives me a good feeling on the strenght and longevrity of this gearbox design. Note the clutchs are wet clutches running in the same oil- if you have ever done a oil change or engine strip on a bike you see the the same effects with no detriment.

I will be fitting a SSP clutch in the near future and will add SSP's larger sump and do a flush / filter replacement as a precaution.
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      09-30-2016, 11:13 AM   #87
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Bombproof

Excellent thread to all that are providing the input. Definitely on my list of upgrades to my M and I am learning a lot from this thread. My question would be - would my local BMW tech's be able to do these mods??
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      09-30-2016, 02:20 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bm5bullit View Post
My question would be - would my local BMW tech's be able to do these mods??
Every dealer might be different, but when I asked my service manager at the dealership he said they don't open the DCT. Clutch replacement they will do.
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