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      02-15-2011, 04:13 AM   #67
Diver
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What's wrong with turbochargers?
I love the DCT in my car, but the wet clutch hurts gas mileage. I think BMW would like to get away from gas guzzler taxes. Even Ford can build a 400+ HP motor that has no gas guzzler tax.
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      02-15-2011, 04:30 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nutballa View Post
Lame. The engineers must have gotten lazy. Ferrari and Lamborghini have automatic clutch/double clutch technology with crazy torque and HP numbers, why can't BMW do it..
Exactly. There is something else behind this decision.

Getrag makes the Ferrari California dual clutch transmission rated to 553 foot pounds torque. The Nissan GTR has a Borg Warner unit rated to to 650 foot pounds torque. It can be done and is being done. The too much torque argument is pure bs.
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      02-15-2011, 04:54 AM   #69
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m5 is becoming like an amg ...

no driving skills needed.
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      02-15-2011, 05:43 AM   #70
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Looks like the bean counters stepped in and spoiled the party.
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      02-15-2011, 05:46 AM   #71
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71 posts of mostly negative comments and yet the one man who could address these fears is otherwise unavailable and elsewhere promoting all the positives that BMW are doing of which there is many I might add.

SPEAKS VOLUME TOWARDS THIS NOT BEING A RUMOR

So if not a rumor and it's in fact true then where does that leave the M5 as the top dog in the performance sector? Probably will make it a better balanced car overall in truth as you must still remember this is a big heavy saloon with serious amounts of power and torque yet will be mostly driven by big fat cats of industry who won't take it to the track and will generally drive it on the freeway/motorway/Autobahn at break neck speeds which is the REAL environment and purpose of these cars.
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      02-15-2011, 06:27 AM   #72
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take away the name M5 and name it M2.5!!
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      02-15-2011, 06:29 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by termigni View Post
take away the name M5 and name it M2.5!!
If that's true, then they should take the M5 name away and name it the "550is".
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      02-15-2011, 06:30 AM   #74
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Brilliant marketing. What's the next announcement - M5 is going to be FWD?
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      02-15-2011, 06:35 AM   #75
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thats weak...
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      02-15-2011, 06:46 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by Ymalo22 View Post
i can't even express my anger....with a keyboard.
Actually, you can.

Just whack someone you don't like very much with it.

Last edited by TonyMeister; 02-15-2011 at 07:09 AM..
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      02-15-2011, 06:53 AM   #77
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NONE OF YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. THE ZF AUTO TRANSMISSIONS CAN SHIFT JUST AS FAST AS A DCT (100ms).

M division JUST said they aren't getting rid of the manual. GET OVER THIS.

Last edited by conradb; 02-15-2011 at 07:12 AM..
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      02-15-2011, 07:21 AM   #78
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It's all just speculation, and being a hardcore BMW enthusiast myself... my first thought is "WHY?"

Then I get to thinking... without all the new toys, gadgets, and marketing tools used to make high car sales, there would be no funds for racing. So it comes out OK in the end!
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      02-15-2011, 07:43 AM   #79
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Hey when it is Miller time in America , it is bedtime in Munich.

But why the Paranoia?
Quote:
71 posts of mostly negative comments and yet the one man who could address these fears is otherwise unavailable and elsewhere promoting all the positives that BMW are doing of which there is many I might add.

SPEAKS VOLUME TOWARDS THIS NOT BEING A RUMOR
I will reply later today, I am occupied at the moment with other matters.

Nothing is Impossible... It is the only the human mind that makes it impossible.
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      02-15-2011, 07:51 AM   #80
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want a manual sports car that offers a rewarding driving experience?

BUY A PORSCHE INSTEAD
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      02-15-2011, 07:55 AM   #81
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compared to the E63, CLS63 and the current M3 the center stalk area does not give impression of a monster car in the new M5 ? wonder why bmw is toning this down.

I am a fan of what MB is doing with the AMG line up lately.
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      02-15-2011, 08:03 AM   #82
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The new 6 series also come in automatic only.
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      02-15-2011, 08:04 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by footie View Post
Probably will make it a better balanced car overall in truth as you must still remember this is a big heavy saloon with serious amounts of power and torque yet will be mostly driven by big fat cats of industry who won't take it to the track and will generally drive it on the freeway/motorway/Autobahn at break neck speeds which is the REAL environment and purpose of these cars.
That's the truth. Besides, the proof is in how it drives. This is an enthusiast forum. As such, it is very different from the overall population of BMW buyers.

I still think the DCT vs 8 speed auto choice is related to pumping losses in the wet clutch. A true manual was probably not on the menu from the start.
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      02-15-2011, 08:04 AM   #84
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Quote:
Their reasoning for the lack of a DCT option is due to the monstrous torque that the F10 M5's twin turbo DI 4.4L V8 motor (S63) from the X5M/X6M is expected to generate.
A note to BMW engineers:
A Corvette ZR-1 has a manual gearbox and 595lb-ft of torque.
Since you guys can't figure out what to do with that much torque, maybe you can just buy the same gearbox Chevy is using?
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      02-15-2011, 08:07 AM   #85
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To be brutally honest, I don't mind if it's an automatic only, as long it beats the Panamera's time of 7:56 around the Nurburgring.
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      02-15-2011, 08:14 AM   #86
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the thing is that this car is not meant for the truck. as someone said earlier its made for highways and the autobahn. its meant to be big, comfortable and fast.

now an auto only in the M3 that would be the big letdown.. probably a conversation we will be having in 2 years..
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      02-15-2011, 08:17 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fanta View Post
The new 6 series also come in automatic only.
Not true. I sat in the new 6 series convertible V8TT with a 6 speed manual up at Detroit auto show last month. But, the 8spd auto will be the quicker car.
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      02-15-2011, 08:30 AM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by conradb View Post
NONE OF YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. THE ZF AUTO TRANSMISSIONS CAN SHIFT JUST AS FAST AS A DCT (100ms).

M division JUST said they aren't getting rid of the manual. GET OVER THIS.
Bingo!!

The 8spd is an amazing trans and has more tech and potential in it than the DCT. The DCT clutch pack can not hold this much torque. The DCT does not have 2 real clutches in it. It has two clutch packs similar to an auto trans. So the only real difference is that the DCT has conventional Manual gears in it. The Auto has drums and sun gears on a common shaft. Both can be made to shift just as fast, but not as fast a a true dual clutch automated manual. It is all in the software. You guys know that the Ferrari F1 clutches are only good for about 15k miles (with lower torque motors) and are major bucks to replace. The manual trans has reached the end. You can not add any more gears to make a 7 or 8spd manual. That case would be huge and not able to fit in anything produced today outside of big trucks. plus you wouldn't be able to make the trans humanly shiftable.
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