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      06-16-2011, 01:11 PM   #23
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itīs obvious that the porsches 0-60 time is better than the M5.....itīs all wheel drive!!!
canīt wait to see the 0-60 time of the xdrive M5!
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      06-16-2011, 01:12 PM   #24
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Sorry but why is the Panamera in this comparo? It should be against the S-Class, 7 Series, and Quattroporte. Not the 5 Series? That's like comparing a 3 Series to an E-Class.

Not to mention much of this data isn't quite accurate. The Panamera is also available in a 6 speed manual in RWD versions, not just PDK. But not too sure if you're comparing M5 X-Drive to Panamera AWD, or if we are comparing RWD to RWD?

Ahh doesn't matter. Thanks for the effort.
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      06-16-2011, 01:13 PM   #25
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I think that has a lot to do with suspension setup also (the 0-60 of the pan being faster)
exterior XFR>M5>>>>>Pan
interior M5>XFR/Pan

I would be extremely happy with either one of the XFR or M5
although i'm sure a lot of people will miss those 10 cylinders of roaring fun.

I hope bmw doesn't get caught up doing a "power war" and neglect some of the driving characteristics of their cars. The 5 series used to be fun to drive.
My friend had an E39 540 and it was awesome, loved the way it drove...
E39 M5, wow car.
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      06-16-2011, 01:22 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason View Post
Fixed.
Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hcourville View Post
Sorry but why is the Panamera in this comparo? It should be against the S-Class, 7 Series, and Quattroporte. Not the 5 Series? That's like comparing a 3 Series to an E-Class.
Because some were asking for this exact comparison (yea, looking at you mkoesel ).

Quote:
Originally Posted by hcourville View Post
Not to mention much of this data isn't quite accurate. The Panamera is also available in a 6 speed manual in RWD versions, not just PDK. But not too sure if you're comparing M5 X-Drive to Panamera AWD, or if we are comparing RWD to RWD?
Panamera Turbo and Turbo S are available only as AWD and only with PDK.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hcourville View Post
Ahh doesn't matter. Thanks for the effort.



Best regards,
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      06-16-2011, 01:27 PM   #27
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well the Porsche looks great from the front and okay from the rear. Side shot and angles are horrible! I do think it looks better in person but not much, overall I still like it. Just imagine if they made a baby panamera and toned down the rear a little, something more like a future 4 series Gran Coupe under the Porsche name and engines? I bet it will come out at some point.

the Jag just sucks, I am sorry but I don't know how else to put it. HORRIBLE performance and MPG numbers for the power. the fact that its got the worse 0-60 times and the worse MPG of all three is just sad. then again Land Rover and Jag have never been known for amazing engines.

For the price and performance M5 wins again here. I think the best compeition will be the future RS6 or CLS63/E63.
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      06-16-2011, 01:28 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pyrat View Post
yes they will charge more than the quicker, yet overall worse performing - E63.
It is obvious the E63 will be quicker out of the box and have better tuning potential. The M5 will have the better gearbox. But the lighter E63 has a chance at winning the handling aspect as well. It has beat the E60 M5 in comparos. With the F10 M5 being heavier, I don't see the new M5 handling better than the lighter E60 M5.
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      06-16-2011, 01:30 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E90 Skye View Post
I hope bmw doesn't get caught up doing a "power war" and neglect some of the driving characteristics of their cars. The 5 series used to be fun to drive.
BMW usually doesn't disappoint in the driving dynamics.

But I am worried about the weight of the F10, I don't see it being more nimble than the E60 M5.
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      06-16-2011, 01:32 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sparkyg View Post
No way the M5 is $90-100k. Zero chance. Who is dreaming that one up

$120-130k minimum and it'll get higher with ceramic brakes and other options.

Wait for the sticker shock people, its coming...
How can they charge that much over an E63? BMW won't do that.

They can raise the 6-series msrp through the roof, but it doesn't really have a true competitor from the other German makes.
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      06-16-2011, 01:41 PM   #31
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Why doesnt BMW update things like the steering wheel? To me its just not aggressive enough.
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      06-16-2011, 01:53 PM   #32
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Do you think that the only reason the Porsche to be way faster from 0 to 62 is the AWD?10 ps less but much faster?Doesn't the AWD cause more loss due to the two differentials?
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      06-16-2011, 02:00 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raduslaf View Post
Do you think that the only reason the Porsche to be way faster from 0 to 62 is the AWD?10 ps less but much faster?Doesn't the AWD cause more loss due to the two differentials?
Above a certain speed and in the case of roll racing yes, not from launch. This means that the panamera even though has extra power, from a 60-130 race might lose to the M5 because it weighs more and has AWD. Of course, this is only in theory because gearing, aerodynamic factors and power curves also come into play.
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      06-16-2011, 02:37 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Questforpower View Post
Yeah it also has All Wheel Drive...
ah you're right. forgot that piece.

working and trying to read forum pieces quickly aint cutting it for me
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      06-16-2011, 03:04 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3_WC View Post
How can they charge that much over an E63? BMW won't do that.

They can raise the 6-series msrp through the roof, but it doesn't really have a true competitor from the other German makes.
6 series gran coupe will have competition but Coupe really doesn't except for maybe Merc SL

as for pricing on new M5, remember they are probably saving money going with the V8 turbo compared to the old V10.

2009 M5 $85,500
2011 E63 $87,500
2011 CLS63 $99,000
2012 CLS63 $95,000

So the CLS63 took a $4,000 price cut even though they "upgraded" the interior. I bet the E63 comes in at $85,000 for 2012 (not sure if they have announced this yet). Now with those prices in mind and considering they are offering a similar engine to the M5 and similar size and luxury, BMW would be insane if they priced the M5 over $90,000 to start, especially in a bad world economy. If they price it over $90K they are going to cause too many people to switch to different brands or wait for the M4 Gran Coupe to come out and save $25K while getting similar performance and just a little less space. Now a lot of people will pick an M5 over the E63 (I would) but if I could spend just a couple thousand more and get the CLS63, I would do that! CLS63>M5>E63
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      06-16-2011, 03:29 PM   #36
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24 mpg is what stands out to me.
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      06-16-2011, 03:44 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TK-421 View Post
The only reason you wouldn't get the Panamera Turbo S is because you can't afford it. It's more comparable to an S Class than the F10.
When I have truly lost my mind and buy a car costing over $100K, I hope it's an Aston or Bentley. For that much money, I'd sure sooner have an attractive car, or at least one that folks don't outright call butt ugly.
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      06-16-2011, 05:49 PM   #38
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wish the m5 is aggressive like the jag... bummer
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
BMW have tapped into this by mirroring typical BMW dynamics and steering communication within the new UKL cars.
You mean massive body roll, a steering system that is not connected to the front wheels, and the engine note played through the speaker system?!?!?!?!
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      06-16-2011, 06:29 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hcourville View Post
Sorry but why is the Panamera in this comparo? It should be against the S-Class, 7 Series, and Quattroporte. Not the 5 Series? That's like comparing a 3 Series to an E-Class.

Not to mention much of this data isn't quite accurate. The Panamera is also available in a 6 speed manual in RWD versions, not just PDK. But not too sure if you're comparing M5 X-Drive to Panamera AWD, or if we are comparing RWD to RWD?

Ahh doesn't matter. Thanks for the effort.
Panamera is in the comparo per request of the members of this forum. Jason was kind enough to create a comparo based on suggestions. Sure, these cars are very different, but a closer comparo (e63 and CTS-V), though boring, is also available.
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      06-16-2011, 06:38 PM   #40
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Exterior: M5 > XF-R >>>> Panamera
Interior: M5=Panamera>>>>> XF-R
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      06-16-2011, 09:00 PM   #41
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Nice comparo... pretty cool. Thanks
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      06-16-2011, 09:15 PM   #42
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The Jaguar is by far the best looking. The M5 looks good, but that Panemera is in a different league all together, it is deliciously ugly.
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      06-16-2011, 09:59 PM   #43
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Quit being so quick to judge. The m5 has yet to be reviewed and we all know how reliable BMW's performance figures are...
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      06-16-2011, 10:10 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southlight View Post
Because some were asking for this exact comparison (yea, looking at you mkoesel ).
Thanks for doing this second comparo, south. I actually somehow overlooked it til just now.

Edit: Or was it Jason who did this one? Or was it a combined effort? Either way, thanks. I love these comparison writeups - very unique among car sites, and very insightful too.

I think the Panamera Turbo is very much an M5 competitor. I bet that plenty of people cross shop them, just like people cross shop an M3 and a C2 or C2S. Actually, it will be a better match against the M6 Gran Coupe when that comes out. So then you can do a new comparo with M6 GC, RS7, Panamera Turbo, and CLS63.

Last edited by mkoesel; 06-16-2011 at 10:18 PM..
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