DKG clutches slipping

maros_pl · 10-16-2015, 05:59 AM

Hi guys,

I have a 13' M5 with SS catless dp's, Akra Exhaust and a ECU flash and I have a problem with slipping clutches after ECU flash.

My numbers are 726hp@790Nm (~600WHP@580Lb-ft) and my clutches started slipping only after one pull on a road. I now went back to stock and there is no slip.

I was thinking about Dodson clutch kit but I've read that even after changing the clutches you still need a DKG tune for it to work properly.
In GTR's and VW DSG a transmission tune only can make the clutches to hold an extra amount of torque without slipping (with extra ware ofcourse) so I was thinking that here should be the same story.

Question to all high power M5's and M6's, do you have TCU tunes or does your stock DKG hold the extra torque?

Is there somebody who does DKG Tune?

13M5F10 · 10-16-2015, 06:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maros_pl

Hi guys,

I have a 13' M5 with SS catless dp's, Akra Exhaust and a ECU flash and I have a problem with slipping clutches after ECU flash.

My numbers are 726hp@790Nm (~600WHP@580Lb-ft) and my clutches started slipping only after one pull on a road. I now went back to stock and there is no slip.

I was thinking about Dodson clutch kit but I've read that even after changing the clutches you still need a DKG tune for it to work properly.
In GTR's and VW DSG a transmission tune only can make the clutches to hold an extra amount of torque without slipping (with extra ware ofcourse) so I was thinking that here should be the same story.

Question to all high power M5's and M6's, do you have TCU tunes or does your stock DKG hold the extra torque?

Is there somebody who does DKG Tune?

I'm surprised you are slipping at 600whp. I'm at 630whp with no issues.

Have you looked at SSP clutches?

maros_pl · 10-16-2015, 07:15 AM

I'm suprised also and that's what I'm trying to figure out. There is very little info about clutches slipping issue even though there are a lot of people who have tuned their M's.

Are my clutches worn and that's why they slip? I find it hard to belive at 35k km of everyday driving.

Other option is that it is normal at ~800Nm (590Lb-ft) and I need some aftermarket clutches (SSP, Dodson or whatever) but this level of torque is relatively easy to achive with our cars so why there isn't more info about it on the forums? And why aren't you slipping with 630WHP?

Either way if I go for aftermarket clutches then I would still need DKG tune right?

MCarsFan · 10-16-2015, 09:17 AM

If your car is still under warranty I would get BMW at the very least to replace the clutch.
I'm at over 600 lb-ft torque with my BR Performance tune and my clutch is good.

maros_pl · 10-16-2015, 01:59 PM

It is under warranty but there is no problem on stock map so I don't think they will be willing to replace the clutches.

Is there anybody with TCU tune?

Spinny02 · 10-16-2015, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MCarsFan

If your car is still under warranty I would get BMW at the very least to replace the clutch.
I'm at over 600 lb-ft torque with my BR Performance tune and my clutch is good.

Bmw won't touch his transmission anymore. The aggressive tune will cause slippage at some point and that's normal wear. One member has replaced his with the ssp and just had to get his dct reset to learning mode. Then the clutch worked fine. I am sure ssp will help you get everything done.

I have started to notice a small about of slippage and this will be my next step.

13M5F10 · 10-16-2015, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maros_pl

I'm suprised also and that's what I'm trying to figure out. There is very little info about clutches slipping issue even though there are a lot of people who have tuned their M's.

Are my clutches worn and that's why they slip? I find it hard to belive at 35k km of everyday driving.

Other option is that it is normal at ~800Nm (590Lb-ft) and I need some aftermarket clutches (SSP, Dodson or whatever) but this level of torque is relatively easy to achive with our cars so why there isn't more info about it on the forums? And why aren't you slipping with 630WHP?

Either way if I go for aftermarket clutches then I would still need DKG tune right?

What tune are you running?

I am not sure about the DKG Tune as that is not my area of expertise. I know that cars are slipping around the 680-700 WHP mark but are find under that. I am at 26,000 Miles on my car of daily driving and MCarsFan can you tell you they are not easy miles ... hahaha

See if the adaptation can be reset and maybe look at another tune before you jump on new clutches.

Northern X5M · 10-16-2015, 05:38 PM

Give onto yourself instead of others!

allmotor_2000 · 10-16-2015, 08:40 PM

If you are slipping with this power level there is something wrong with the flash and DCT control of torque.

Spinny02 · 10-16-2015, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Northern X5M

Give onto yourself instead of others!

MpowerMike · 10-16-2015, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Northern X5M

Give onto yourself instead of others!

More info on the clutch kit please

maros_pl · 10-17-2015, 04:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 13M5F10

What tune are you running?

I am not sure about the DKG Tune as that is not my area of expertise. I know that cars are slipping around the 680-700 WHP mark but are find under that. I am at 26,000 Miles on my car of daily driving and MCarsFan can you tell you they are not easy miles ... hahaha

See if the adaptation can be reset and maybe look at another tune before you jump on new clutches.

It's a local made tune and it's progressive so that I would avoid slipping. It did not help.
Here's the graph.

It's a Maha dyno so I think the numbers are conservative in comparison to mustang and dynojet and maybe there is the answer.

Also there was almost new (5k km) M6 F12 with the same flash and it also slipped.

Quote:

Originally Posted by allmotor_2000

If you are slipping with this power level there is something wrong with the flash and DCT control of torque.

The tune is fine but I cannot say the same about DKG and that's why I'm looking for a DKG tune.

MCarsFan · 10-17-2015, 05:04 AM

Good luck with this. I hope it gets resolved.

allmotor_2000 · 10-17-2015, 08:32 AM

It shouldn't slip for this level of power - what are the torque requests vs rpm in the tune?

maros_pl · 10-17-2015, 02:34 PM

I have no idea, I would have to ask my tuner.

Btw in my tune 1-4 gear limiters were taken off. Do all tunes do that?

allmotor_2000 · 10-18-2015, 02:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maros_pl

I have no idea, I would have to ask my tuner.

Btw in my tune 1-4 gear limiters were taken off. Do all tunes do that?

No - if you are requesting 800+ Nm torque down low and limiters are off th clutch will slip

maros_pl · 10-18-2015, 11:03 AM

I did not push the car below 3k rpm. The clutches slipped over 4-5k also on 5th and 6th gear (where there are no limiters ).

But I will talk to my tuner to play with the limiters then. Thanks for the input.

Northern X5M · 10-19-2015, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MpowerMike

More info on the clutch kit please

Check out SSP's Web site.

allmotor_2000 · 10-19-2015, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Northern X5M

Check out SSP's Web site.
I got the 900ft/lbs clutch pack, Billet Baskets & Oil pump bushings and SS Filter. Might as well do it all when the trans is out, as I do not want to pull it again.

What's your tire setup to get the 1.7s 60-foot? I got a set of 19" wheels and MT ET Streets. Tried it yesterday at 24psi and it just spins even 3rd gear. Seems worse than my R888's. Am I not heating it up or doing something wrong?

Northern X5M · 10-19-2015, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by allmotor_2000

What's your tire setup to get the 1.7s 60-foot? I got a set of 19" wheels and MT ET Streets. Tried it yesterday at 24psi and it just spins even 3rd gear. Seems worse than my R888's. Am I not heating it up or doing something wrong?

I have the same set up. I run at 23 psi. If hooking is is problem I will play with pressure a bit more. Drop down to about 21 if needed.

Did you do an initial heat cycle to break in? Do a real good burn out or a few. Then each run needs a good burnout to get some heat into the tires. With my mods the MTs are just at the limit of dead hooking. I get maybe 3 out 4 clean launches. I think with your power you maybe require more tire.

allmotor_2000 · 10-19-2015, 08:55 PM

Thanks - will try at the next 1/4 mile event.

lfelunden · 10-20-2015, 06:29 PM

What mods and who tuned your car??

10-16-2015, 05:59 AM	#1
maros_pl New Member 3 Rep 22 Posts Drives: F10 M5, E92 M3, E46 M3, E39 M5 Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Warsaw, Poland iTrader: (0)	DKG clutches slipping Hi guys, I have a 13' M5 with SS catless dp's, Akra Exhaust and a ECU flash and I have a problem with slipping clutches after ECU flash. My numbers are 726hp@790Nm (~600WHP@580Lb-ft) and my clutches started slipping only after one pull on a road. I now went back to stock and there is no slip. I was thinking about Dodson clutch kit but I've read that even after changing the clutches you still need a DKG tune for it to work properly. In GTR's and VW DSG a transmission tune only can make the clutches to hold an extra amount of torque without slipping (with extra ware ofcourse) so I was thinking that here should be the same story. Question to all high power M5's and M6's, do you have TCU tunes or does your stock DKG hold the extra torque? Is there somebody who does DKG Tune?
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10-16-2015, 07:15 AM	#3
maros_pl New Member 3 Rep 22 Posts Drives: F10 M5, E92 M3, E46 M3, E39 M5 Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Warsaw, Poland iTrader: (0)	I'm suprised also and that's what I'm trying to figure out. There is very little info about clutches slipping issue even though there are a lot of people who have tuned their M's. Are my clutches worn and that's why they slip? I find it hard to belive at 35k km of everyday driving. Other option is that it is normal at ~800Nm (590Lb-ft) and I need some aftermarket clutches (SSP, Dodson or whatever) but this level of torque is relatively easy to achive with our cars so why there isn't more info about it on the forums? And why aren't you slipping with 630WHP? Either way if I go for aftermarket clutches then I would still need DKG tune right?
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10-16-2015, 09:17 AM	#4
MCarsFan Lieutenant Colonel 363 Rep 1,805 Posts Drives: 2014 BMW M5 F10 CP Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Dallas, Texas iTrader: (0) Garage List 2014 BMW F10 M5 [10.00]	If your car is still under warranty I would get BMW at the very least to replace the clutch. I'm at over 600 lb-ft torque with my BR Performance tune and my clutch is good. __________________ 2014 BMW F10 M5 ZCP \| SSII / Black \| MSR Stage III \| MSR Intakes \| RPi GTM Exhaust \| RPi Catless Downpipes \|RW Carbon Front Lip \| RW Carbon Diffuser \| RW Carbon Trunk Spoiler \|
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10-16-2015, 01:59 PM	#5
maros_pl New Member 3 Rep 22 Posts Drives: F10 M5, E92 M3, E46 M3, E39 M5 Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Warsaw, Poland iTrader: (0)	It is under warranty but there is no problem on stock map so I don't think they will be willing to replace the clutches. Is there anybody with TCU tune? Last edited by maros_pl; 10-16-2015 at 02:12 PM..
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10-16-2015, 05:38 PM	#8
Northern X5M Captain 105 Rep 806 Posts Drives: 2014 Tanzanite Blue M5 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada iTrader: (0)	Give onto yourself instead of others! __________________ 2014 ///M5 CP Tanzanite Blue/Cohiba - 11.15 @ 128.8 & 1.84 60' (2150' DA) - BPM Tune - MSR Intake - SSP DCT - SS DPs & HFC Mid Pipes/X-Over - E Race Muffs - 19" MT DRs... On to a new home.
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10-16-2015, 08:40 PM	#9
allmotor_2000 F10 1/4 WR: 9.9s / 142.5mph 1/2 WR: 175.5mph 1087 Rep 1,968 Posts Drives: 2018 RS3, 991 Turbo Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Westlake Village, CA iTrader: (0)	If you are slipping with this power level there is something wrong with the flash and DCT control of torque.
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10-17-2015, 05:04 AM	#13
MCarsFan Lieutenant Colonel 363 Rep 1,805 Posts Drives: 2014 BMW M5 F10 CP Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Dallas, Texas iTrader: (0) Garage List 2014 BMW F10 M5 [10.00]	Good luck with this. I hope it gets resolved. __________________ 2014 BMW F10 M5 ZCP \| SSII / Black \| MSR Stage III \| MSR Intakes \| RPi GTM Exhaust \| RPi Catless Downpipes \|RW Carbon Front Lip \| RW Carbon Diffuser \| RW Carbon Trunk Spoiler \|
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10-17-2015, 08:32 AM	#14
allmotor_2000 F10 1/4 WR: 9.9s / 142.5mph 1/2 WR: 175.5mph 1087 Rep 1,968 Posts Drives: 2018 RS3, 991 Turbo Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Westlake Village, CA iTrader: (0)	It shouldn't slip for this level of power - what are the torque requests vs rpm in the tune?
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10-17-2015, 02:34 PM	#15
maros_pl New Member 3 Rep 22 Posts Drives: F10 M5, E92 M3, E46 M3, E39 M5 Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Warsaw, Poland iTrader: (0)	I have no idea, I would have to ask my tuner. Btw in my tune 1-4 gear limiters were taken off. Do all tunes do that?
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10-18-2015, 11:03 AM	#17
maros_pl New Member 3 Rep 22 Posts Drives: F10 M5, E92 M3, E46 M3, E39 M5 Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Warsaw, Poland iTrader: (0)	I did not push the car below 3k rpm. The clutches slipped over 4-5k also on 5th and 6th gear (where there are no limiters ). But I will talk to my tuner to play with the limiters then. Thanks for the input.
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10-19-2015, 08:55 PM	#21
allmotor_2000 F10 1/4 WR: 9.9s / 142.5mph 1/2 WR: 175.5mph 1087 Rep 1,968 Posts Drives: 2018 RS3, 991 Turbo Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Westlake Village, CA iTrader: (0)	Thanks - will try at the next 1/4 mile event.
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10-20-2015, 06:29 PM	#22
lfelunden Banned 60 Rep 643 Posts Drives: BMW M5 F10 Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: German Autobahn iTrader: (0) Garage List 2013 BMW M5 [0.00] 2011 Alpina B3S Bit ... [9.50] 2010 Alpina B3 Biturbo [10.00] 2009 Alpina B5S [10.00]	What mods and who tuned your car??
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